RPetry

Tim, Jim Foley posted the 5th message on this thread. He is the personage with the parrot on his head. Do not let that picture fool you, he does know wood. I'm not sure if you are "pulling my leg" or I'm not sure how to say it in proper English, fooling me? Lambswool is not a machine, its a material. Just what it says, it is the hide and wool of a lamb. In other words, leathery genuine skin with natural wool attached. It is used in the US for applying oils to hardwoods by hand.

Roger and Tim from the mother country, Read Jim Foley's post previous. Hand rubbing with lambswool on teak or any other hardwood garden furniture is easier, faster, and better than spraying. You can work the oil into the wood. You can see and feel it. Over application of oil will turn the wood blackish in a short period of time. Does not penetrate but forms a film. Food for mold and mildew. By the way Tim, HVLP means "High Volume, Low Pressure".

Rich, Am I reading your post right? Ethylene glycol gives sodium hydroxide more punch, and even more importantly, keeps the solution wet longer? Any side effects to the wood? You use this booster-hydration mix without any problem? If so, this is the best tip I have read in many a moon.

Ken, Thanks. I understand now what you mean, but do not understand the reason. You are just a few miles from me. Yesterday was sunny but cool temps. I was hand brushing a cedar balustrade (two tone with Trex floor) with RS and waited until 9:30 AM to start. The previous night had been in the 40's and knew that the wood had to warm up a bit to take a quantity of stain. Even when the afternoon temps reached ~70 F., the stain was still wet to the touch for an hour or so. Something is wrong. Shane uses BGA in Houston in the dead of summer. Talk about hot temps and brutal sun! I'm sure he can clear things up.

Ken, Very fair, through review of Baker's Gray Away. A few questions and comments. The eveness of color of the finish with paraffinic oil based stains certainly depends on the wood species and grade. I personally have noticed no difference in this regard to other oil semi-trans stains. At least with RS, the color will get richer or deeper looking after more applications. Also, stains with iron oxide pigments reflect light in such a way that colors can vary widely due to board grain and sun direction. If the observer moves and changes his angle of viewing, the color changes due to the reflection of sunlight. A cloudy day will "even" out the look. In comparing BGA to RS, you write "and it does seem to have a cure to it". I am unsure of what this means. Could you explain further?

Nice to wake up to this. Hate getting riled in the morning. Foul acrylics should be banned until these greedy, self-serving stain manufacturers make a stripper that works on removing their own garbage. Doug, Cabot's use to make good oil semi-trans and solid stains. Used some solid last year. So thick that you needed to thin the stain with mineral spirits, but saw the deck this spring and it looks fine. Problem here in the Northeast is that they have changed their stain formulas to try to comply with the harsh VOC regs and you are not sure what you are getting. Anybody use this year's production of Austrailian Timber oil? Notice any differences?

Steffysmom, The cheap $35 Sonin moisture meter is just that...cheap. The on-off switch constantly gets switched to "on" when bouncing in the truck due to it being on the side of the unit. You will burn up a bunch of batteries. The pins are dull on the end so you cannot penetrate the wood to get a correct subsurface reading. If you are going to use Ready Seal, this makes the Sonin near worthless. I gave mine away to a local guy just starting to do wood. The Delmhorst J-Lite is very sturdy, comes with a hard carrying case, wood species conversion chart, and extra pins. Real pins that you can sink into the wood. Well worth the $105 or whatever the cost is now. I've had mine for three years without problem.

Terry, If she is not going to stain it, a sodium percarb wood cleaner washed off with low pressure and followed with a oxalic or citric acid brightener may look a little bit better that cleaning with bleach. The cedar will probably come out lighter and brighter in color and look "cleaner" than a standard bleach wash. Unless there is a lot of mold and mildew, a 3% mix of bleach may be a little strong. You may want to try 1 part bleach (assuming you are using household Clorox which is 6%) to 2 parts water. Generally, there is no need to follow up a bleach cleaning with an acid wash. But if you test a spot and the wood looks better, there is certainly no harm. Just make sure you rinse the cedar very well after the bleach cleaner and before you apply the acid. What a great name for a town, Pretty Praire, Kansas. Sounds so calm and relaxing, compared to the wacky hectic lifestye here in the Northeast. Best of luck on the cedar fence.

Lou, Yes. Citric acid brightens and neutralizes the wood, the same as oxalic. It takes a bit more time to work than oxalic from what I have been told. I do not care as on most jobs I do not rinse the citric acid solution off the wood. The other upside is that it is not harmful to you, any workers, foliage and customers appreciate the "environmental" angle. Plus it is food grade so you can drink it if thirsty and prevent scurvy (vitamin C deficiency disorder)!

Help. I am getting too old for this. Pls. see attached picture. 18 yr. old cedar shake roof of a gazebo that is part of a large cedar deck. It appears that the shakes have never been cleaned let alone stained. Mold, mildew, and time have deteriorated the shakes to the point of ~ 1/2 of original wood thickness. Naturally, previous contractors have avoided the roof like the plague. The problem is the roof is unsafe. Have a safety harness rig but, in my opinion, the the top pointy part or cupola is not strong enough to hold if I slip. And potential slipping is 50-50 at best. Not only are the shakes like ice if wet, the shakes themselves are prone to detachment. Look out below! Can clean OK up to ~ 2/3rds of the way to the top from a ladder. After that, the angle of the extended wand runs parallel to the roof and water pressure both catches the underside of the shakes and blowing some off, and the angle of attack just does not clean the crud off. Aside from a portable lift ($ and access makes this unworkable), anyone have any ideas? Have specific disclaimers in the contract concerning this roof, but I really want to get it cleaned and stained. The finished project would look incomplete without refinishing. Yeah, I know, call a roofer. But when you're in the wood restoration business you should be able to prove it. Thanks for any suggestions.

Shane, Yeah, finished last Friday and went to put the furniture back on the deck and collect the check this afternoon. Was ~4:30 PM when I got there and took a few pictures. The worst thing about this job was there were 4 flowering cherry and pear trees around the deck. Must have used the blower about 8 times just doing the floor at the end and those d*mn petals just kept on falling on the wet stain and untreated wood!

Paul, Holy smokes, can you clone them? Do they have brothers, even sisters? Send a few up to New Jersey! That is one heck of a lot of staining for two guys in a day. You have a couple of keepers.

Shane, Final pic of the job. With Ready Seal and the iron oxide pigments, the grain direction and the sun's angle obviously makes a difference in appearance, ie. the adjoining roof sections of that leg killin' gazebo!

Paul, How many men do you use to brush out that much wood in less than a day? I'm not questioning your veracity, but would like to see that kind of production anywhere. Don't go into Houston, Texas. They do not allow outsiders there. Tough town, ask Shane.

Mike, Try citric acid. You can buy it online at the Chemistry Store for ~ $94 per 50 lbs. which includes shipping. 6 oz./gal., blow it on and walk away if you are using RS. It's food grade, you can drink it if thirsty, and does not harm anything, including yourself. Does sting if it gets in the eyes, but it tastes like lemon.

Jeremy, That is a monster job for anyone, let alone someone who is just starting on wood. You may want to seriously consider taking Paul up on his offer of guidance and help. But 6600 sq. ft. of staining using brushes in two days? 3 flights of steps with handrails, 280 linear ft. of ballustrade? What do you do, hire every slow painter in the county? Even Texas Shane, the record holder for volume staining, could not get near that kind of production.

Jon, Yeah, I've tasted stripper many a time. You are right, wind second sight is key. Splash water on the face and go back at it. Never noticed burning on the lips though, you must have sensitive smoochers. The ladies must love ya'! "A great weight loss technique is to wear your PVC suit in JUNE thru AUG." Agree. Use to scuba dive off of NJ. Even in the dead of summer, needed a dry suit due to the cold temps at depth. Between being suited up prior to diving and the warmer near surface waters, would lose 3 or 4 lbs. per 2 dive charter. Can't even stand a respirator any longer when it is hot. Plus 'ya can't smoke with those things over your mouth and nose. Who needs that? NaOH and RS stain mist is the least of harm to these old abused set of bellows.

Jon, Do not mean to intrude or ask personal questions, but how does one get sodium hydroxide on the lips? Is there a KISS test I have not learned? Just kidding of course! But still, just kind of curious... Nitrile gloves (what are they?), PVC suit, are not in my equipment inventory. Safety glasses and respirator are on every job but to be honest, don't personally use them much anymore. OSHA would have a fit.

Truth. Says it all. Lou, Sometimes creativity comes into play. For example, doing a 14 ft. high balustrade does not necessarily mean you have to use a ladder and apply your strippers, neutralizers, and stains from the ground using ladders. Friggin' NaOH coming down on your head and 4 gpm. of water soaking you to the skin is not a pleasant way to spend the day working. Chems can easily be applied from deck height. May take some leaning over the rail but is a small price to pay verses using a ladder or huge scaffold. A PW gun with a short flex extension used with care (watch your hands!) can also be used from the deck floor to rinse your stripper off the wood. I'm finishing staining a job tomorrow that has part of the bottom of the balustrade starting at ~ 11 ft. from ground level. 90% of the spindles and rails were stripped, PW, neutralized, and stained from the top of the deck. A rolling portable scaffold takes care of the lower kick rail and bottom of the spindles. The lower fascia is done from the scaffold. I get a little wet but wear a rain suit, it is no problem. You could not pay me to wear a PVC suit in temps above 80, I'd die of heat exhaustion.

Ah, yes. That mystical wood magician extraordinare, Mr. Jim Foley of the great state of Conn. All should know, especially our new European friends, that Shane and Diamond Jim have been key players in keeping the ancient, long lost art of bleaching wood alive. Without their efforts, this process would have been lost to wood contractors just starting in the field. Both should be recognized as founders of the BDA, and select members of the Order of Master Mold Destructors.

Tim, People here from the States who work on wood like to argue over all sorts of subjects such as strippers, cleaners, types of stains, etc. One of the largest and sometimes hysterical debates is the subject of bleach, or sodium hypochlorite mixes for cleaning wood. BDA stands for The Bleach Dwellers Association, a made up moniker for those who advocate using bleach to clean wood. Created by the inventive mind of Shane from Houston, Texas if I recall correctly.

I have a job coming up with a trex deck and cedar balustrade, fascia, and step risers. The cedar will be stripped of old stain using NaOH, specifically F-18 Max at ~ 6 oz./gal. The trex will be cleaned with sodium percarbonate. This is old, possibly the original brand of trex. Weathers to a kind of muddy brown-dark gray and is light gray when cleaned. Question is does NaOH have any coloring or other effect on the trex? Will spray the cedar with a shurflo and will certainly get some stripper solution onto the trex deck. Any experience and advice would be welcomed. Thanks.

Yaz, A homeowner has been using BLEECH! for years and the cedar has not fallen apart? Shocking. Wonders will never cease. I do not know about cedar and BLEECH! other than maintenance with RS. Do not think it will turn the cedar white, only oxalic or citric can do that in my experience. Anyway, probably best to talk to Jim or Shane. They are the directors of the board of the BDA and have years of experience. I'm a percarb and citric advocate unless the wood has a paraffinic oil in it. Good luck on the bid. I do not have any idea what a proportioner is. BTW, just listened to "Elephant" by the White Stripes. For rockin', Pink Floyd is history...! See 'ya.

Ken, Holy smokes, are you a frustrated botanist? Those plants are wrapped better than a Christmas diamond from Tiffany! Nice work.

Hey Yaz! Good to hear from you again. I cleaned some nasty cedar shakes on a foul gazebo roof about a week ago. There shoud be a thread on the the wood section somewhere. The original pic is scary. Anyway, these things were very bad, 18 yrs of mildew, mold, and the friggin' mushrooms were growing out of them. I used straight sodium percarbonate on them at 8 oz./gal. Not real concerned about dwell time, kept it wet. Would not let it dry overnight without PW but some of the stuff you read can be a bit much. Anyway, worked well, and have done the same treatment before. Brightened with citric @ 6 oz./gal. I'm sure that EFC-38 or any percarb cleaner would be fine. Someone else may help with an X-jet application. I have no idea. I'm sure you know, but take care on the angle of attack when hitting the shakes with your PW. Friggin' things can be bad news. Knock the socks off this customer! Best regards.