RPetry

Ken, As one gets older, it is hard to change. I've used staight percarb before on nasty shakes with good results and have the chems on hand. I wanted to use a bleach mix final wash on this gazebo roof after neutraliizing, but cannot find the bleach! Stopped by a large pool supply house but all they had was 15% at 10 pH and I need 12%, 8 pH. I've used Restore sodium percarb cleaner for the past few years to clean untreated or completely failed oil stained wood. Will continue that practice. But from now on it will be a light bleach mix with low pressure for maintenance on all Ready Seal decks. It does not effect the oil and pigment already in the wood as much as percarbs and as far as I can tell from a bit of research, a bleach mix is more effective on killing mold and mildew.

Celeste wins the gypsy rigger equpment prize of the month. Fabricated a 9 foot wand with a flex extension on the end. The contraption bucked like a wild bronco under pressure but was able to get to the top of the roof and clean these old cedar shakes. Three separate wands and guns were needed. Used a straight sodium percabonate chemical mixed 8 oz./gal. and let dwell for a while. Single application and pressure wash was all that was needed. Brightened with citric acid yesterday.

Fireandrain, Ken is right on the money. Not only will professional products work better, the cost savings are substantial. Make sure to neutralize/brighten with an acid wash. I have used F-18 and F-18 Max strippers the past two years. It seems to have the advantages of staying wet longer and seems less harsh, with less fuzzies, on woods like cedar. F-18 Max can be purchased from Pressure Tek. Give Bob Williamson a call at 888-898-0908. Be prepared to talk as Bob loves to converse. The company's web site is www.pressuretek.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------- 8GB Ought To Be Enough For Anybody REDMOND, WA -- In a shocking move, Microsoft has revealed that the new Xbox console will only contain an 8 gigabyte hard drive. This implies that the machines will use a version of the Windows operating system that fits within only 8GB. Squeezing Windows into such a small footprint must certainly be one of the greatest technological achievements ever crafted by Microsoft's Research & Assimilation Department. "I can't believe it," said one industry observer who always happens to show up when this Humorix reporter needs to quote somebody. "To think that they were able to strip away the easter egg flight simulators, the multi-gigabyte yet content-free Help files, and all of the other crap that comes bundled with Windows is simply remarkable. I don't even want to think about all of the manpower, blood, sweat, and tears required to distill Windows into only 8 gigabytes of bare essentials. Wow!" Hard drive manufacturers are deeply disturbed over the news. Explained one PR flack at Eastern Analog, "We depend on Microsoft to continually produce bloated software that becomes larger and larger with each passing day. We can't sell huge 100GB drives if Microsoft Windows only occupies a measly 8 gigs! They will never buy a new drive if Microsoft doesn't force them!" ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Shane, As you are keeper of the roll call, I would submit Mr. Roger Oakley's name as candidate to the initiation of the secret handshake. In addition, as Grand Wizard Diamond Jim was mentor, the lignin killer ribbon should be awarded to highlight his collection of most impressive medals. As an association of splinters, the BDA is now going international. Mr. Oakley may be the first, but rumor has it that a wood contractor from Austrailia may soon follow suit. Nice work Roger. Bet that bleach did a number on that rotten English mold and mildew.

Hey Philip, In another life I was also in the software business. Churning out code for customers on the M$ platform. When Red Hat came out with the 5.1 series of Linux, switched and never went back. Still have to boot into a Windoze partition for Quickbooks, emailed MS Word estimates, and the occasional shooter session with Far Cry. Otherwise, Linux takes care of all my network and desktop needs. Diamond Jim, Never forget the first time I touched an Apple. Took me 15 minutes to figure out how to turn the thing on! Problem with Apple is their hardware is just so expensive. I give them credit though as I believe their OSX operating system is built on Open Source code base.

Don, Feel like Gilda Radnor (rest her soul) as the old Saturday Night Live character, Rosanna Dana. "Never Mind!". Never heard of DeckBrite. Did a quick Google. It is the same name as Wolman's new name for their percarb cleaner. Use to be plain "Deck and Fence Brightener". Thanks to Vincent and Barry for eliminating that possibility. I'm sure the cedar will look brighter when dry. Rich, Yeah, the old Wolman cert was the avenue many of us took when we first got into the business. That logo came off of my business cards and letterhead years ago and have not used their products in a long time.

Oh boy. First secret handshakes, then banditos coming out of the woodwork. Followed by the new splinter group, the BDA. Now Diamond Jim's 10 Commandments of Exotic Wood. This should keep the Grime Scene wood boards jumpin' for a while!

Don, Please clarify. In reference to your 2nd post, the first picture with the mostly dry wood with wet wood to the left. This was taken while stripping the balustrade but before doing anything to the deck floor? You mentioned RM. Is this a sodium hydroxide stripper? And Deckbrite is a sodium percabonate based wood cleaner made by Wolman's? This may be your problem. If an old finish is present and needs to be removed, you use a stripper. If no or very little, easy to remove finish is the case, you can use a sodium percarbonate wood cleaner. Either one or the other, not both. After the cleaner or stripper is pressure washed off the wood and the wood throughly rinsed, an acid solution such as oxalic, citric, citrolic is then applied to the wood to brighten. Wolman's DeckBrite is not an acid neutralizer/brightener, it is a percarb cleaner. You have not yet neutralized the stripper-cleaner combo and brightened the wood. A local paint store should sell oxalic acid. You should now apply that solution to the wood, let dwell for a time, and rinse off well. I do not know the concentration or typical dwell times as I use citric acid. Maybe others could chime in with some guidelines.

Bill, As far as the original prep to the wood last year, that is a suite of chems I have never tried. EFC-38 alone should have cleaned the wood, with oxalic after to brighten. Not sure if the bleach mix in between was needed or may have caused a problem. Oxalic after bleach is not, from what I can determine, a good idea. Was the wood wetted with water before applying the bleach mix? Was the bleach mix rinsed very, very well out of the wood before the oxalic? I use Ready Seal exclusively for PT, cedar, redwood, etc. One thing I have learned is that a moisture meter is imperative. The wood may look dry and feel dry, but still not at or less than 12%. Not just on the surface of the wood, the wood maybe 1/4" deep must be at or below that moisture level. Sink the pins of the meter down into the wood to get a proper reading. IMO, no. I've use RS on some very nasty, old wood with good results. But the first application will take a large amount of stain. The thing about good parafinnic oil stains is that they penetrate into the old beat up wood and replace lost natural oils and resins, helping to give the wood a new lease on life. IMO, no. Why would that be? Yes. I would do a very light, VERY LOW pressure cleaning of the existing stain with a ~2% bleach mix and a small amount of detergent soap. Rinse well. DO NOT follow up with any acid bath. Sink the pins of your moisture meter into the wood to make sure its at 12% or less before applying the RS. With the age and condition of the PT wood, as well as full sun exposure, IMO the light brown is a bad choice. Go with at least a medium brown or medium red. You can apply a darker RS over the existing light brown without any problem. These colors have a lot more pigment, as Shane mentioned. And as you know, use plenty or oil! You will get that old wood looking good again.

Ken, Not only kind and thoughtful, you and your crew do some nice carpentry work. The charity auction is a great idea. Congrats on giving back.

Bill, A few questions. What is the wood, cedar, pressure treated, something else? Was there an old stain(s) in the wood prior to cleaning? What chemicals did you use to clean the wood? Did you follow up the cleaning with an oxalic or citric neutralizer/brightener? Prior to applying the Ready Seal, did you use a moisture meter to test the dryness of the wood? How many gallons of Ready Seal did you use on ~ how many sq. feet of wood? In the deck exposed to a lot of sun? Aside from cedar, I find the Ready Seal light brown too light in color for most decks, especially those with a lot of sun exposure and/or wilth old, beat up wood. A medium brown or medium red selection may be a better choice.

Oh Lord. Another bleach solution post. I can hear the gnashing of teeth and wailing at the wall now. Happy Easter everyone.

Ken, What trash. Pure nonsense, they truly have no clue as to what they are talking about. 9 out of 10 people at Cabot's probably have no idea what ipe is. Shame on them. Gee, lets see. Acrylic SPF does not work, how about ATO? Get them to come out to the job site and get rid of that foul plastic. Give Everett Abrams of Deck Restorations Plus a phone call. He is a very nice person and has quite a bit of info on the history and problems with ATO. First problem for your customer is removing the acrylic. Cabot's fine rep on this web site crowed about their very effective strippers. Try it, and let us know if it actually works. You have to wonder why he never posted or replied again. Once your customer gets rid of the nasty, Consumers Reports best buy acrylic nightmare, what to do next? I do not know, talk to Diamond Jim. I hate acrylics. I hate self serving manufactures claims and "politically correct", misinformed information. Let 'em suffer.

As a fledgeling bleach baby of the BDA (Bleach Dwellers Association), a newly formed splinter group of woodies, could use some help. Obviously, to use in any quantity and save $, you can't go to the local SuperFresh (regional grocery store) and unload the shelves of Clorox. Not that Clorox doesn't work well, but its just at 6% and the garbage man is likely to turn your trash over to the EPA. One thing I read about Clorox, and is noted on the label, is that a small amount of sodium hydoxide, our old friend, is added to get the pH to 8, which is apparently the most effective for I'm not sure. Maybe cleaning clothes. Stopped by the local pool suppy house this afternoon. Their sodium hypochlorite was 15%, with a pH of 10. Anyone know what I should be looking for? Wood only, with the bleach mix only used for cleaning on existing Ready Seal decks due for more oil. Thanks.

Hey Ken, I would never consider doing the gazebo roof if it were not for the large cedar deck that goes with it. I'm a sucker when it comes to cedar. You are also using bleach? Must talk to Shane, he is the keeper of the honor roll in the BDA (Bleach Dwellers Asssociation).

Hey Jon, I understand the stabilizers. Its just that I use a 12' step ladder. With it, I can get my feet ~ 18" below the edge of the roof safely. In all honesty, I'm not a real fan of ladders. Don't own an extension ladder, don't want to. Thats why I do decks! 6% bleach is ok but with the thick, baked on mildew on the shakes over years, the crud is truly like coral. I mean hard, like you need a knife to cut it. Can't fathom that without getting down to real wood, any stain will make more than a temporary fix.

Ok, got the message loud and clear. Tried and true bleach it is. Still need to get the wand near the wood. Celeste affirmed my backup plan, I'll give it a try tomorrow. Bleach and TWP 200 or 500 or whatever, if Diamond Jim, Texas Shane and Tennessee Jon say it, I'll give it a try. You guys know a lot more that me. Advice asked and good advice given should be followed Any guidance on bleach mix strength? 3%, 6%, or even stronger? Its not like I'm going to hurt the friggin' lignin in this wood! Problem is trying to get TWP around here. And I am not flying to Texas for Grey Away. Greenies do not cause flatulence. But lack of same can cause shakes on the shakes. Foster's is a very good beer. Ever party with Aussies? I could not hold a candle to those blokes many years ago. The container does look like an old oil can. Thanks to all. More fun tomorrow.

Ken, In the past, I have found Cabot's "technical" people less than knowlegable about wood or even their own products. That ipe is a mess. What really disgusts me is why anyone would want to hide the natural beauty of ipe with any kind of solid stain. From what I understand from Everett Abrams, Cabot has changed the formula for Aussie Oil three times in the last three years. Not a good sign. I've used ATO on my own ipe deck, but it only lasts 10-12 months. No question, it is a film stain. Not bad performance for the wood, but every year it gets stripped off and reapplied with lambswool. No more. I'm going with a test with RS this year. Probably will need more oil in 3 to 6 months initially, but want to see if the wood will take and hold more oil as time goes on. Diamond Jim, Do you mean people that have applied Aussy 4 or 5 times without stripping in between? What are they trying to do, get to thinner air? Putting a new finish over a failing finish is generally a bad idea from what I have managed to learn. I'm now in a quandry. What to do with existing customers with ipe, mahogany, and baleau (luan)? They now have Aussie oil, which in the past gets stripped and reapplied. Safety says to stay with it until RS or some other penetrating oil proves itself. Any advice?

Hey Jon, In the past I've used percarbs on nasty shakes, usually twice, and will again on this PITA roof. If I can ever get to all of it without killing myself. RS will be the stain. From what I understand, TWP is very similar in oil type and pigments. Can't go wrong with a good oil.

Hey Ken, Yeah, this is the worst cedar shake roof I have ever seen. The bad part of the whole story is that I did a similar job in the same neighborhood, 5 properties down, last year. Larger gazebo cedar shake roof, with about the same amount of crud. Shakes were in better shape but there was absolutely no where to tie in. Got it done but I took a bad fall, from near the top in the attached pic, onto the deck floor and staged ladder. Maybe superstition. Big problem is that this job is a referral from that one. Customers saw that nice new looking deck and roof and wanted the same. Got my name and number and here I am. But it is cedar and I love the look of well stained cedar. Just can't help myself with that opening... Its bleach and getting older and wiser! I think you are right. Just do not want to take the chances that were not even considered a few years ago.

Hi Celeste, Thanks for the reply. That is one possible alternative but I have tried that before on another job. The problem I encountered then is being able to control the extended wand. Just cannot seem to get the leverage with my left hand and hold the extension far enough up the shaft to keep the tip close enough to the wood to knock off the crud. Plus, I have to work off a ladder. The roof edge starts at ~12 ft. off the ground and my portable scaffold is just not high enough to be useful. If I do not get or receive other viable ideas, I think I will try that tomorrow with a smaller wand extension and just try to "reach". I don't know, I think its just getting cautious with age. Took a very bad, frightening fall last year with no more damage than bruises and pride, but I do not have nine lives. Probably do some wand replumbing in the morning and give it a shot.

Portable Hydrotek CP35005VH cold water, with a 4.5 GPM AR belt driven pump. Only work on wood, so the machine is fine. Agree with Jamie though about loading and unloading the unit, unwinding hose etc. Takes time to set up and breakdown. Unfortunately, live in a neighborhood that prohibits commercial vehicles and trailers. If I decide to grow the business, will have to rent at another location.

Ken, You may also want to send your customer the tech data sheet on SPF at: http://www.cabotstain.com/pdf/tds/3600_3700_3800_tds.pdf Reading through, there is no mention of sanding.

Ken, You may want to notify your customer to the following link: http://www.cabotstain.com/askexp_htm/showFAQ.cfm?ID=166&cabot=1 The question is about Aussie oil on ipe but Cabot's answer is mostly pushing SPF and their "special" cleaner on "oily" ipe. It does not specify sanding.