RPetry

Derek, Clorox contains very little sodium hydroxide. Its only used as a pH adjuster and stabilizer. The problem is that Clorox contains a fair concentration of sodium hypochlorite, most commonly known as bleach. This is probably around 6% concentration if not diluted with water. We generally dilute sodium hypochlorite down to ~ 1.5%, and rarely over 2%, when cleaning exterior wood. Try tossing an old, colored T shirt into straight Clorox and allowing to dry. This is what you have done to your wood, bleached it! Pat's suggestion of multiple rinsing cycles with plenty of water is sound. Apparently, bisulfite or metabisulfite, thiosulfite, or peroxide will neutralize bleach, but I do not know the practicality of using those chemicals and the effectiveness on wood. You may want to forgo staining this year and just let the wood weather over the Georgia winter. Time and precipitation should help in flushing out the bleach from the wood. Clean properly and stain next year.

Adrian, Although not charter, I did join the membership the first year. Presented 2 wood seminars down in Orlando. Spent too much cabbage, and played lousy golf. Had fun with Jake Clark, Scott Paul, Alan Broom, Carlos, and Bob of PT State, with numerous others. Great convention. Fond memories of what could have, should have been.

Daniel, Weird. If we did a $170 quote for a job, I'd never even think of going and "meet" the home owner. Today, with overhead expense, gas expense, and time, its a losing proposition. We've done 5K jobs on wood without ever going to the job site. Pictures and the internet are your friend.

I'm not sure what kind of work you do. My experience is limited to exterior wood restoration, and it may not be applicable to house washing, gutter work, roof cleaning etc. It all starts with the on site estimate. I quickly explain the nature of the business, if applicable, why we can't strip in the rain, or in general, why you do not apply stain to wet wood. How a week of bad weather can affect scheduling and the ripple affect of pushing back future booked jobs. Virtually all my customers over the years understand and accept these basic facts. I usually give them a projected week window on when we can start the work, with the caveat that it could be delayed due to mother nature. Unless there is a planned party, most are not sensitive to when the work is done. Certainly not a specific start date. Aside from the initial on-site meeting with the customer, we do most of our communication via email. The estimate is emailed, schedule updates are emailed, questions are answered mostly by email. I cannot remember the last customer that did not have at least one email address. Maybe you have different demographics, but nearly all our customers want to communicate by email. It sounds like you may be trying to micro manage future scheduling. This is close to impossible and not needed in wood. We have a handful of customers that are initially scheduled for a targeted week window. If it appears there will be a delay, you email that week's customers late the week prior to let them know with a short explanation. Don't worry about jobs two or more weeks out until the following week. You put explicit wording in the contract. Ours reads: "Terms of payment: net on project completion." If you get the impression the customer could be a dead beat, either you do not do the work, get a substantial up front deposit the first day on the job, or tell them explicitly when you meet with them the terms. I guess I'm lucky, but my customers are accustomed to full payment on completion in dealing with contractors. I would never discourage customer's from calling. I want and like to talk with them. They get my cell when the job is booked.

Adrian, Hah! Another woodie without a home. ...

I'm the one on the left of the picture with the 20K teeth. John is on the right with god given chompers. Thanks John for the ladder jacks, platform, and safety barrier. It will be put to good use on Monday and a good part of October. The price was right, but 3.75 hrs. to drive 90 miles was quite a trip. Got back home here in NJ in a little over 2 hrs., including a stop for greenies. Timing is everything when driving through the NYC area. Great to see you again but I will not be in Nashville. We restore wood, we are not pressure washers! Give Kathy another hug for me. She may be added to the wood minx list ...

Celeste, Sodium percarbonate, at least in wood cleaner formula, will last years in powder form. NC has nothing on NJ when it comes to summer humidity, especially this year. A simple air tight container, filled to the brim, is all that is needed for storage.

About 6 hrs. if mixed with water. Otherwise, the powder will keep a long time if kept free of humidity. Sodium percarbonate is the active ingredient in "OxiClean". From clothes washing to cat cleaning, there must be hundreds of viable uses.

Daniel, Either you do not read what has been written, take the time to click and follow links, or just choose to be contrary with no basis in fact. Water, the stuff out of the tap or well, has a fair amount of iron in it. Whether soluble or insoluble, irons are prevalent in nearly all water supplies. Don't worry, it will not harm you. In fact, your own chemistry and health depend on a fair amount of iron. If you do not drink normal water, eat a lot of calve's liver. In my experience, properly prepared, it is delicious. This has nothing to do with sub standard fasteners. It has to do with the natural wood and water supply.

Daniel, The word "prevent" does not appear in any of my posts in this thread. The word I used was "suppress". There is a big difference in those two words. From what I can understand, the cause of uneven, "blotched" semi-trans stain finishes on tannin rich woods such as cedars and redwoods is a bit more technical. The stains from tannic acid are formed when iron and moisture come into contact with tannic acid in the wood. Oxalic and other acids reduce the iron compounds, therefore suppressing the formation of tannin staining. Some good basic information can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannin In part, as follows: "Adding baking soda to the water to raise its pH level will accelerate the process of leaching, as the more alkaline solution can draw out tannic acid from the wood faster than the pH-neutral water." One may speculate that a sodium hydroxide wood stripper would accelerate the process. "Woods with a lot of yellow, red or brown coloration to them (like southern yellow pine, cedar, redwood, red oak, etc.) tend to contain a lot of tannin. Finnish hardwoods, like birch and aspen, do not contain tannins."

For all you long suffering wives or girlfriends (or both!) that detest Pro NFL football, the following humorous quote. I realize that today you have a number of top female athletes such as Martina Navratilova who can run like deer and bench-press Chevrolet trucks. But to be brutally frank, women as a group have a long way to go before they reach the level of intensity and dedication to sports that enables men to be such incredible jerks about it. -- Dave Barry, "Sports is a Drag" The early Giants - Eagles game this afternoon should be a good one. NFL East at its best.

My pleasure although I can't take the credit on reseach. An unnamed 3rd party emailed the link. I'm getting old, and like Daniel, detest some of this nonsense, but new regulations are going to affect even small potatoes woodies. Might as well get use to it ...

Daniel, Not true. At least in Ma. where you reside and do some business. Assuming that what you are actually doing is applying a stain to exterior wood. Go to: http://www.mass.gov/dep/air/laws/aimregfs.pdf Read it carefully. The summary specifically states, in partial, as follows: • The AIM regulation applies to any person who manufactures, distributes, or sells AIM Coatings for use in Massachusetts and to any person who applies AIM Coatings in Massachusetts. • The VOC content limits became effective on January 1, 2009 (see the Table of Standards below). • All AIM Coatings manufactured on or after January 1, 2009 that are intended for use in Massachusetts must meet the VOC content limits. I'll be the first to admit that my driving and possibly some other behavior does not strictly comply with NJ State law. But when you are contracting with customers, or possibly working on your personal property, you had better be aware of the law. To you, and your customers peril.

Daniel, I'm going to step on this, with your pardon. As far as I know, most woodies on this board do not paint exterior wood. At least during the April - October wood season here in the Northeast U.S.. I've used acrylic paint on old growth WR cedar at my in-laws house down the Jersey Shore. Some basic painting prep, and it lasts a long time on vertical wood. For the most part, for wood restoration, this web site is devoted to staining, not painting. In my experience, NaClO does not emulsify cedar/redwood tannin, only "bleaches" it, changing the color. Sure you can remove some surface tannin build up by blasting the * out of the cedar, but that is by far not the best practice. The purpose of NaOH (sodium hydroxide) is to emulsify the built up surface tannin. Low water pressure cleaning will remove the surface build up on the wood(s). You are not done yet. Good cedars/redwoods still have a fair amount of tannin just below the surface substrate. That is why you never do a hard sanding on these woods. The heat of friction will drive those tannins back up to the surface, negating the work you started. The next step is to suppress the tannin. That is where an acid wash comes into play. Not just to brighten/neutralize, but to get the natural wood tannin from leaching to the surface. With semi-transparent stains, such as Ready Seal, this step is critical.

We do not stain homes. Aside from the PITA factor, you must use ladders or lifts or scaffolding of some sort. I do not put help up more than 12 feet, and at my age, going higher than that is risking my own neck. Being said, this was a job too sweet to turn down. 32 yr. old redwood home, neglected for most of its' life. Tannin bleed galore, but little mildew/mold growth. Cleaned up well. The wood sucked in a ton of Ready Seal natural cedar stain. Wish the stained photos were taken in sunlight, but the job turned out well. The home goes on the market next month. The cost of the restoration will pay at settlement.

John, No. Dependent on quality and age of the cut, cedar and also redwood tend to bleed tannin. A natural resin in the wood. It has to be removed prior to staining. Otherwise, the final finish will not appear consistent. If Pamela had provided a few pictures, the diagnosis could be fine tuned. NaOH in diluted mix works well. Of course, and acid is applied after cleaning. Its not Ready Seal as a stain, its the wood.

Odd how these things snowball ... This lead came directly from the Grime Scene web site this week. Looked over the job tonight. 38 redwood framed windows, doors, and circular skylights. 3 redwood garage doors. Foul poly/urethane finish that is peeling off. I'm the 3rd contractor in 8 yrs. since the home was built. We've done a fair amount of high end work over the past 10 years, but I have never seen a home or property like this close up. Owners are terrific. The dormer windows, 5 in all, are a challenge.

Brian, You've got that right. If it is not raining, the fog in the AM is thick and soupy. We have Chilean cedar garage and front doors that are still not dry enough to stain after prepping last week. Nice job and nice digs. I could retire to a log home like that on a big lake. I thought you didn't like to service wood!

Adrian, Worst helper I've had in 10 yrs. The younger brother of a 2 yr. former good helper, named "Oscar" by me. You are possibly old enough to remember the film and TV show, "The Odd Couple". Well Mike is actually Felix, that is why I named him Oscar. He doesn't know it so please don't tell him. The father and 2 sons are intellectually gifted to the point of amazement. Sad story, difficult times for the father and the mother died suddenly many years ago. Anyway, I always give nicknames to my younger help. Matt, who is in the truck, is "Snoozie". Never hire a physics major. He does not know what weed is.

Daniel, Sage advice from a contractor that does not use Ready Seal. Or, from years of posts and pictures, work on a lot of Western Red Cedar. It is not hard to learn more. What is hard is to unlearn when you discover yourself wrong. ~Martin H. Fischer

Pat, That is a small tragedy. You prep the cedar to near perfection and then the owner covers both your efforts, and very nice wood, with an opaque, paint like finish. He should have built with SYP ...

Pamela, It has been 9 years since you last stained the cedar? If so, disregard the previous advice. We have been using Ready Seal for a full decade now. For cedar siding, a light strip will be best. Store purchased NaOH wood stripper or "sodium hydroxide" can work well. Just dilute from the instructions by adding 2 times the recommended water volume. You want a very light stripper to clean and get rid of any remaining Ready Seal stain or cedar tannin. Allow to dry and inspect. If there are traces of mold/mildew, a 1.5% bleach wash will do the trick. If otherwise, ignore the bleach. Purchase some oxalic acid at your local paint store and mix at ~ 6 oz. volume per gallon. Spray or mop on, and allow the cedar to dry for a few days. Hit the cedar with a "soaking" dose of Ready Seal stain and go relax.

Hey Scott, Thanks. The redwood had not been touched in 30+ years and in some areas the tannin was thick on the surface, like a crust on bread. 4 oz./gal. of ACR 760 NaOH wood stripper and a bit of dwell time did the trick. Rinsed with fairly low pressure. We neutralized/brightened with Ready Seal's #80 acid mix. A bit costly but I have found it very effective in suppressing further tannin coming to the surface after cleaning.

Pat, That is some nice WRC under that foul looking old stain. What an improvement! I thought Dixie only had southern yellow pine!

Dave, Sorry for the delay. Just got back in from a family gathering and christening out on Long Island. The vast majority of the redwood was sprayed with Ready Seal med. red, using a PumpTec pump on a Decker 5'er setup. Some hand cut in around the windows & doors, but all the high areas were sprayed. Those high windows and soffits were cleaned of errant stain using Simple Green on an extendible pole with a "mop" type head. Works well.