RPetry

Jim, Can you get any RS into the ipe' without many months or a year of weathering? Its been my impression that if your customer wants to stain new or nearly new ipe', you want to remove as much top extractives as possible so a linseed will bind, or a paraffinic penetrate. Sanding may be to strong, but we do use random orbitals with 60 grit to remove the fuzz that seems to occur when cleaning with a pressure washer. To get that even, picture type finish, especially with drying oils like WoodTux, in my limited experience it seems necessary. Hmm, maybe scrub the wood and rinse without a PW. That might eliminate the fuzzies?

Matt, Ipe' is strange as a range of RS med. and dk. colors does not seem to make that much of a difference, the exception being light brown which is too light. Have only used a mix of dk. brown/dk. red on true mahogany, which is similar. The attached pic is RS medium red, which I prefer. A 6 - 8 oz./gal. of straight oxalic is pretty rough stuff for most woods and IMO too harsh for wood, ipe' being the exception. Just as we do not clean wood with NaOH, on ipe' we will at full strength just to chemically leach out the natural oils/extractives so a stain will bind.

Mike, I am not familiar with cumaru but if it anything like ipe', go ahead and beat the snot out of it with NaOH. You can't hurt it and it will help leach out more of the natural surface extractives so a stain may take for more than a few months. You will be amazed the first time, the rinse water will look like blood. Ipe' is the only wood that we brighten with straight oxalic acid. Seems to be more effective in opening up the wood than citric or a blend. Best thing I ever did with my own ipe' was strip, brighten, sand, and just let weather for a year. After cleaning and brightening, we were able to hand brush 2 separate apps. of RS into the ipe' and the stain slowly faded but lasted for a year.

Mike, I don't think the "redwood only" formula is either needed or wanted on ipe' or similar wood. To be honest, I don't think it is necessary on even redwood, old growth or otherwise. Peirce of Ready Seal came up and helped on a 50+ yr. old redwood restoration last year. We put down a regular med. red on a test board and it initially came up a muddy black. The next day, less than 24 hrs. later, this same very old redwood board was a rich brown with tints of red. I'd stay with the regular formula, have never seen RS with a pigment problem on hardwoods.

Mike, The reason we sand last as follows. Pressure washing, whether using a sodium percarbonate wood cleaner or sodium hydroxide stripper, "raises the grain". Not sure but the acid neutralizer/brightener may contribute. In other words, ipe' will "fuzz" to a small degree, it's readily apparent when you apply an oil based stain, if linseed oil or paraffinic oil. Trust me, if you want a "picture" finish, a very light sanding prior to stain application is needed. As far as RS colors go, ipe' is similar to true mahogany, aside from the one "light" color. I do not think RS makes a "light red", only a light brown which looks terrific on western red cedar. My advice would be to go with a med. red, med. brown, or natural cedar on a wood similar to ipe'.

Rod, Holy smokes, blue? Was this ipe' or another hardwood? Yikes, that is awful. Did you use NaOH followed by an acid brightener? This is why I like to test new stains before applying to customer's wood. What the heck could turn wood blue? Time to dig into the MSDS for any clue.

Beth, If you are getting it, no doubt we will see the same here in a few hours. Have a few estimates to do, looks like its time to break out the rainsuit. Adrian, Best of the season to you also. Slow start here but a few days of warm, sunny weather and the jobs start rolling in. Reminds me of last year, which turned out to be a very good season.

Charlie, We do not use HD80 but a sodium hydroxide stripper that is very similar. We may have stripped a semi-trans. waterbase stain in the past, but never known it (ie: customer has no idea of what deck stain was used). Actually now that I think about it, we did strip what was most certainly a 1 yr. old waterbase semi off of a large mahogany deck last season. Our NaOH stripper worked very well. Virtually all the waterbased stains we see here are solid acrylic or latex and vanilla sodium hydroxide strippers are not very effective. Just wanted to make sure we did not have to use Defy's proprietary wood stripper. At $16/gal. plus tax and shipping, that gets expensive real fast.

Adrian, Don't complain. Today I serviced the equipment to get ready for the season. Been so cold, did not want to flush the antifreeze in the pumps and PW/s. Next week, we may actually start the wood season.

Ralph, We could not be more different. Have never used a Decker 5'er for chems, those go through a Shurflo pump setup. Does your Decker have a PumpTec pump? These are HVLP sprayers, ie. High Volume, Low Pressure. No fog or overspray, you adjust the pressure and volume flow at the pump and wand. Strong wind can be a problem but we never mask. No need.

Charlie, Thanks. If you are stripping Defy with HD80, that alleviates some fear and potential problems. BTW, we use 60 grit. Scott, Thank you for the offer but no need. As my ipe' deck is small, 2 gals. will be more than enough. Friggin' ipe' takes virtually no stain at all. I'll wait until Sept. at the one year mark and if we have some time, strip the A-C and give it a whirl. That is, if the Defy holds up as well as the 6 month mark! Thanks again.

Scott, No. The Defy applied with no apparent film. Appears by eye to penetrate similar to an oil. Mind you, this is ipe', where nothing penetrates to any great degree. The "new" BM waterbase was similar, but did not hold its color as well as the Defy, and was variable. Odd, I looked at an ipe' deck last year that had held its color quite well for 3 yrs. with a BM waterbased stain. As you may well appreciate, us old timers are very leery of anything not oil. Some has to do with "conditioning" the wood, but the primary reason has to do with maintenance. With paraffinics, its just a light bleach cleaning and a single app. Linseed may or not need a stripping prior to reapplication. Ipe' is a tough nut. Will be doing two ipe' jobs next week, weather permitting, one that has weathered for 4 yrs, that will get RS. Another is 3 yrs. old, with WoodTux applied two yrs. ago. That will get stripped and Armstrong-Clark applied. In Sept., might as well strip my own ipe' deck and use Defy as a test. Never thought I'd use a waterbased stain on exterior wood, but willing to give it a go. Maybe old dogs can learn new tricks.

Scott & Charlie, Do not know anything about waterbased exterior wood stains, aside from acrylics and latex. We do not use them. But we do occasionally strip them. And NaOH strippers are ineffective. Defy, although waterbased, can be easily stripped with HD80 or other NaOH strippers? Thanks.

Ralph, Fence is a hard sell. With a clean, brighten, and RS stain, your $1600 is low here. Our labor would be that much plus all material costs and state tax. If you are using a lot of RS, please get a HLVP Deckster or a Decker 5'er. The cost in labor alone will pay back in spades.

Scott, Thanks for the link. Have you ever tried to strip this stain? Defy recommends using their stripper, which is a sodium hydroxide - sodium metasilicate solution, followed by a brightener.

Beth, Hah, that is a funny commercial because it is basically true! No April's fool joke. Missed this as I was up in Albany over the weekend.

Daniel, Ready Seal has been our primary product for the past 6 or 7 years, and I see nothing on the market presently that will change that. Armstrong-Clark, though different, appears to be a very good hybrid stain, and we will probably use it on a few specific jobs this season. Ipe' is a whole other animal. On very weathered wood, you can get two apps. of RS into ipe', and it lasts about a year, similar to other stains. Otherwise, if going with an oil base, A-C may be better due to the top linseed oil barrier. I'm going to reserve judgment until Sept. on this "test", when the stains have been exposed a full year.

Jason, Percarb wood cleaners contain special detergents and surfactants as well as percarbs. If you already have a sufficient quantity of the StainSolver, go ahead and use it. Oxalic is readily available in most paint stores. With any brightener, figure ~125 sq. ft. per gal. So 2 lbs. of citric from the Chemistry Store will be enough for ~750 sq. ft. of wood which should cover your deck. ACR Products can be found here: ACR PRODUCTS They also carry Ready Seal and Armstrong-Clark stains.

Jason, Yes, you should apply an acid brighter after a sodium percarbonate wash. Percarbs are caustic and will darken the wood, as well as leave it in a higher than desirable pH level. Instead of some generic cleaner, why not use a sodium percarbonate cleaner formulated for exterior wood? Wolman's DeckBrite is available at many retailers, or even better yet, see Deck Cleaners | Wood Stains Sealers | Maintenance | Sealing Restoring Decks This package includes both the wood cleaner as well as a brightener specially formulated for exterior wood.

Beth, As far as pigment retention, yes, that order is correct. The Defy is waterbase. A-C is a very close second to the Defy. WT & BM are quite "blotchy" in appearance. RS is more even but has less remaining pigment, probably due to a single application and the light color used.

Ditto on that. Something about red that does not look good on wood. Must be all those old picnic tables... Real nice work though Tony. I like the white on the stair risers and around the hot tub.

Doug, If you are going with RS, I would strongly suggest putting 2 separate applications on the horizontal wood the first time, one heavy app. on the verticals. Give the wood as much stain as it will take. Being 2 yrs. old without prior sealer, the PTP should take a fair amount. Make sure the wood is very dry before applying the stain. With cold spring temps in New England and morning dew, this can be difficult. And without a moisture meter, its guesswork. Wait out for two or three days of warm, sunny weather, preferably with a little wind, and no overnight freezes or heavy AM dew. Thereafter, maintenance is quite easy. Usually stain the horizontal wood every two years, and the vertical wood every 3 to 4 yrs., depending on sun exposure. One single heavy app. of stain is sufficient, and the wood will dry out fairly fast as there is still oil in the wood. A light, say 2% bleach mix with a little soap is fine for cleaning.

Scott, I agree, the grain certainly looks like ipe', not mahogany. If so, that is terrific color retention at the two yr. mark. The reason may very well be your "all the trees" statement. UV from sunlight seems to be the major factor in pigment degradation.

Jeff, A bit confused by your post, are you considering downsteaming sodium percarbonate wood cleaners? If so, I'm not too sure that will work. Percarb wood cleaners are generally designed to be mixed at 6 to 8 oz. per gal. for the correct concentration on the wood. I'm not sure that they can mixed in a high enough ratio for downstreaming.

Scott, At a little over the 6 month mark, and after a very cold winter with two young dogs playing on the deck, see the attached picture. Hard to see, trying to get all the stain samples in a single frame, but my impressions are the following. From left to right, all one coat applications: Ready Seal, light brown, Benjamin Moore Alkyd Transparent Hardwood Finish - natural 321 10, Defy - Deck Stains for Hardwoods, cedar tone color, WoodTux warm honey gold, and Armstrong-Clark rustic brown. Color retention - Have to admit that the water based Defy wins. Kept its' original color the best and also weathered to an even color. Worst color retention - Ready Seal light brown. Even color but faded the most. From past experience, 2 coats of a darker pigment on newly stripped ipe' would have helped, but this was a one coat shoot out. The Benjamin Moore held its color fairly well in some areas but not in others, resulting in a "muddy" appearance. The single application of Wood Tux is similar to the Ben Moore, variable, leading to an uneven looking finish. The Armstrong-Clark has faded somewhat, but in an even manner. With a light bleach cleaning, will probably look better and possibly last until this coming September, the one year mark. The remainder of the deck is stained with Armstrong-Clark's rustic brown. The teak furniture is stained with Ready Seal light brown, two separate cleanings and stainings back to back in two years.