RPetry

Ron, As with most of Cabot's exterior stains, the two different part #'s distinguish the same stain, one being VOC compliant, one not compliant. I would guess this is true for CBO. Not sure which is which. To make sure, see their web site.

Thanks for the replies, Kirk and Beth. If Rod has any input, I'm all ears. Emailed the pictures and info to a friend in Maine who is an accomplished woodworker. His response has given me pause. First thing, he thinks the replacement value of these doors is ~ $8 - 10K. What happens if you mess them up and they look worse than when you started? Second, he does not think that any sander or sanding method can adequately restore the detail work in the panels. Finally, he is concerned about the bottom of the doors (pic #3). He thinks there is a possibility that mold/mildew has gotten into the wood and will be tough to remove. Kirk, the idea of sandblasting never occurred to me. If it can be controlled with small, detailed nozzle tips, that could be an option. Beth, you guys do cob and other media blasting, is there a possible application to this type of job? My friend and I decided that the wood is some species of high quality pine or fir, possibly Douglas fir, if that makes any difference. There is a Dip 'n Strip franchise about 20 miles away. I'm going to call them this morning to see if their chems can remove polyurethane. Thanks all, and keep the suggestions coming!

Jim, On the off chance that you have not stained your ipe', here is a pic I took while working this morning. This ipe' deck was stripped with a weak, 3 oz./gal. NaOH mix, brightened with citric acid, and is being lightly sanded with a random orbital using 60 grit paper. Note the white areas to the right and "top" of the sander. This is typical "firring" of the ipe' boards, even with a diluted stripper and low pressure rinse. From past experience I can guarantee that a semitransparent oil stain will look much better on ipe' when lightly sanded.

From the same site as Kevin's cup of coffee: "Because there are probably over 100 billion galaxies in our visible universe, and because there are only about 42,000 square degrees in the surface of the sky, that means that in every square degree we will see nearly 3 million galaxies. Most of these will be the most distant and hence 'youngest' ones. So it doesn't seem to matter what direction you look." Astronomy is a fascinating and almost philosophical subject. For those that have a customized Google home page, you can get a daily picture of space, galaxies, and the universe from: NASA - NASA Featured Images and Galleries

Kevin, Perfect. The abstract sounds like a fed. gov't grant to me. I've got a good friend in Maine with a Ph.D. in Chemistry that would probably roll his eyes at that verbiage. That said, think I'll stick with oils.

Beth, Nah, no problem. At least the stain was free. If a 3rd staining on the floor does not work out, I'll just strip it off and redo with Ready Seal. May actually not be a stain problem. The deck is about 5 month old PT built very low to the ground with little ventilation.

Great. Just waiting for the dew to dry off before a 2 month "maintenance" staining of a Timber Oil job. We have had the best weather this season in memory. Lost very few days due to rain. August was very dry, less than 1 inch of rain, very cool and comfortable, with virtually no humidity! Amazing, think I'll vote for global warming!

Just kiddin' with 'ya Beth. Though you have to admit it would take a Ph.D. in Chemistry to begin to translate that abstract. Hate to see the content!

Ah Beth, Clicked on one link and here is what came up: Abstract: Mechanical modeling and dynamic mechanical analysis were associated to investigate the viscoelastic properties of an alkyd acrylic hybrid system in connection with its morphology, which was characterized by transmission electron microscopy. Theoretical predictions based on the interlayer model used in direct mode were successfully combined with the experimental viscoelastic data to lead to relevant additional information about the complex particulate morphology of the hybrid system. Thus, using direct mechanical modeling, it was concluded that the experimental response of the alkyd acrylic hybrid system to a sinusoidal mechanical stress corresponds to the mechanical response of a sample whose morphology involves a acrylic-rich interphase between continuous and dispersed alkyd-rich domains. For the very first time, the interlayer model was then used in reverse mode in order to separate the actual viscoelastic properties of such a acrylic-rich interphase from those experimentally obtained for the alkyd acrylic hybrid system. The differences in these extracted viscoelastic properties, when compared to those of the pure latex film, were presented as reflecting the changes in the molecular mobility of the macromolecules resulting from the mutual influence of the phases in the multiphase hybrid material. Coffee does not help. Where is Kevin, he may be able to translate some of this gobbley-gook. Think I'll go watch "Oprah". Don't understand that either but at least its in English.

Ron, What Beth said. We are not linseed stain users, so my helper applied the A-C in our usual manner. This created the lapping. The "fix" was to apply a 2nd coat of A-C on the deck floor. As can be seen from the attached pic, the lap marks were much less noticeable.

Celeste, No doubt. I am not being critical of the stain, it is just different in pigmentation compared to straight paraffinics such as RS or Timber Oil. This was in response to Rod's statement, "I only question the durability due to the low pigment content ..." Though a different color, it was the same product line, semi-transparent. I found the amount of pigmentation greater than that of the above stains. Two pics, one of the "lapping" mentioned in a post above. Contractor error, certainly no fault of the stain. The pic is a single, initial coat. This was mostly corrected by a second application of stain on the deck floor. Second pic is after two coats on the deck floor, with the original single coat on all the vertical wood. With the single coat on the vertical wood, the cedar is certainly more heavily pigmented than either RS or our one time experience with ESI's Timber Oil. Not better or worse, just different. Dependent on wood species, exposure, and condition, we are getting 2 to 3 years on horizontal wood with RS before a quick cleaning and single application of more oil. I would certainly hope to get that lifetime, and possibly a little more, out of Armstrong-Clark's semi-trans stains.

Rod, We stripped and applied A-C rustic brown semi-trans to a western red cedar deck a few months ago. With some exceptions, our experience was similar. We did have some problem with lapping. This was my fault in not instructing my helper correctly. I left to do an estimate and he started "cutting in" by the rear wall of the home, as we normally do with Ready Seal. Even after an "even" or "non cutting in" second application, the lap marks were not as bad but evident to my eye. This was done in full sunlight but not a particularly hot day as I recall. The complete job was hand brushed. Our job gets full sun and weather exposure as it is a regular deck. As it is located in a regularly traveled area, I will be able to check on durability from time to time. But it kind of "felt" that the product should be fine for length of service, and we did get two separate stainings in/on the cedar. We will see and I'll try to remember to report back. My impression was opposite. We used the Rustic Brown color in the semi-trans line and I thought there was a whole lot of pigment. The stain kind of masked some of the cedar grain without becoming opaque, much more so than Ready Seal or ESI's Timber Oil. Also appeared to have some clay pigments as opposed to straight iron oxides. If so, that might explain part of the heavy pigment impression.

Beth, Wonderful! Now the rest of the country can suffer what we have been through these last 4 years! Russell, I just looked through A-C's online MSDS sheets. The formula is 25% solvents across all product lines.

Russell, It is entirely possible that I am mistaken, the numbers I posted came from memory of conversations with Jake Clark a few months ago. As far as I know, the oils are ~ half paraffinic, half linseed. I seem to remember Jake correcting me with the 1/3rd, 1/3rd, 1/3rd part but I may be confused. After all, social security is in sight! I'm not sure about Ca. VOC regs, but would assume that they are at least as strict as the Northeast. Did I read somewhere that the rest of the country will be on these restrictions soon?

Beth, Sounds good, and should be easy enough to test on a few species of sample boards. Not sure that I am that ambitious this year, cannot even get to my own ipe' deck!

Beth, It sounds a bit complicated, "stepping down" in pigment and product, but in practice may be easy. Time will tell. One question remains on maintenance. From what I understand, A-C is ~ 1/3 linseed oil (drying), 1/3 paraffinic oil (non-drying), and 1/3 solvent. Plus pigments, mildewcides, resins etc. If in fact a maintenance job has a fairly intact surface linseed oil/pigment after washing, will a reapplication of A-C linseed/paraffinic oils penetrate through the existing old finish? It is not just the build up of pigments hiding the grain of the wood, it is the potential of build up of oils on the surface. I have seen straight paraffinic oil stain, ie: Ready Seal, penetrate through some linseed oil stains, but not others. Not sure why. Maybe someone on TGS that has used A-C stains, particularly their semi-trans products, for a number of years, can let us know of their preferred prep and results of one or more maintenance stainings.

Scott, That TWP Pecan is a real nice color on cedar, fine job. Too bad they didn't want the gazebo roof cedar shakes cleaned and stained, that would have really been the finishing touch.

Beth, Very odd, the two "after" pictures look like very different stains. The middle pic, fdporchafter.jpg is a nice rich light brown, while the fdporchafter2.jpg is a shocking yellow, similar to the 1st Menwood pic. What color A-C did you use and which pic is representative? A-C longetivity is important. But more important are the steps needed for maintenance prep. Seems to be some concern that the original stain will have to be removed before a "maintenance" staining.

Do not know where you are looking, but I would guess that most contractors here that work on ipe' lightly sand before staining. Ipe' is so dense, supposition that a 60 grit sanding will "close the pores" is a specious argument. Unless there is credible evidence to the contrary, this may be nonsense. In practice, a light sanding will enhance the visual quality of most stains on ipe'. Especially for drying (example is linseed) oils, which is the most common type of exterior stain. I have seen no difference in stain longetivity between sanding and not, on my own ipe' deck. Cabot's ATO use to be a good product prior to the VOC changes in early 2005. We have not used it on any hardwood jobs since that time. Ready Seal, WoodTux, or Armstrong-Clark stains would be good choices. Letting the wood just grey out and weather for a year is fine, we recommend this for new ipe' to leach out natural extractives so that a stain will last longer than 3 to 6 months. As you stated in another thread that your ipe' is 10 yrs. old, this may not be helpful but it will also not be harmful. Good ipe' can go for decades without a stain. The wood is just that bullet proof.

Very true words. Create a deserved reputation over time and three things seem to happen. First, the type of customer and jobs are in the higher dollar range. Second, those customers tend to provide more and better referrals to other high end customers. Third, you will become more involved in interesting work with exotic woods and challenging restorations.