RPetry

Ken, Hah!, great picture. You really don't get out in the field much. Pristine blue jeans, clean unstained shirt, and knee pads that look like they just came off the store shelf. I'm jealous! Pete, I think Rod is right. The osbourne brush did not help and maybe exaserbated the problem. Ran into the same thing using 60 grit sandpaper on ipe' and finishing with WoodTux. The finish just does not look right. Fix was to use 3M defelting pads on the Makita 9227 and refinish.

Yes. My ipe' is going on 5 years old. Stripped and stained with Aussie oil the first two years. Stripped and naturally weathered the 3rd year. Last year did the test and stained with RS and RS-WT. The strippings for the early Aussie oil apps also may have helped "condition" the ipe' to allow more oil. It may be those two factors in combination. One surprise was that the ipe' took two separate brush apps of RS, without having to wipe up any excess. No doubt that aging of the ipe' permitted that much oil to be absorbed by the wood. By testing the three stains on the same ipe' with the same exposure to UV and the elements, the stain longetivity itself will be isolated.

Kevin, Yes. I think a year of weathering, at least here in the Northeast, is maybe the best surface prep for ipe'. No. And I believe it may be logical. The theory is to get as much of the natural oils, resins, extractives, whatever, out of the ipe' before you apply a stain. Gives "room" or "bit" or "volume" for the stain to occupy. A short story. Did an ipe' job last year. Builder applied Messmer's to the wood immediately on completion in Sept. of 2006. When I looked at the job in April of 2007 there was virtually nothing left on the floor and little stain left on the verticals. Customer wanted WoodTux stain so in early June 2007 used a light, think 4 oz./gal of NaOH stripper to blow off the remaining Messmer's and applied the WT on the balustrade and vertical parts of the deck, as well as a small section of floor. Customer was not pleased and either was I, due to the "non-drying" issue. Had to wait until late July 2007 to received the corrected stain. Stripped the "bad" WT, and restained. Went back about two weeks ago to take a look. Verticals had held up OK, but there was little pigment left on the floor, with the exception of where the ipe' had been stripped twice. In this small section, the WT had faded but there was still decent pigment. There is a picture posted on TGS, the thread is in the wood section, probably about 2 weeks ago. Compare this to my own ipe' deck. It had been stripped twice, and in 2006 allowed to naturally weather for a full year before applying straight RS and a 2 to 1 RS-WT mix. There is no doubt the RS lasted much longer than the WT on ipe'. But is this the quality of each stain, or the condition and history of the two different ipe' decks? I do not know for sure, but in part would suspect the latter. Head to head along with an Armstrong-Clark stain sample on the same ipe', with the same exposure, over the same length of time, may clarify the question. Now, just have to find time to do it!

Hey Daniel, Little question that the oxalic - citric acid differences are nil, at least with RS. So we will be staying with the citric on ipe'. I am pleasantly surprised how well the straight RS med. red held up for a year. So I guess I'll generally stick with RS on ipe', unless the customer wants a different "look". Then probably go with WT. The test has also helped confirm the idea of letting ipe' naturally weather for a while or artificially degrade the wood with stripper. Always looking for alternatives for ipe'. When we get a breather from customer work, we'll get to cleaning and redoing mine, with straight RS. Am going to prep and test, head to head, RS, WT, and Armstrong-Clark stains on a section of the handrail. Jake has been after me to test his stain, although it is designed for softwoods. Will also put all three stains on cedar and PT boards as a test at the same time.

I agree. Am going to go a step further this year, with 3 different stains on sections of the handrail. Don't know when I'll get that started, this is a very busy spring. Agree again. Could be the cut of the wood or a "trick" of the camera. A wash it is. Disagree. Maybe I was a bit too harsh in using the word disappointed. Ipe' is what it is. The floor finish lasted better and longer than some other products I have used on ipe'. I think there is still some oil in the wood but it is hard to tell as ipe' is so dense, water stays on top even without a finish. Attached is another picture of the floor, this one from an overhang at the back wall (pic top) going toward full sun/weather exposure. Plenty of pigment there, so the ipe' did not push out the RS-WT mix. Remember, this ipe' was left to naturally weather for a full year. I am currently advising customers with new ipe' to either let it sit and call me in a year, or I am stripping the new wood with 8 oz./gal. of NaOH to chemically remove as much of the natural ipe' extractives as is reasonable. Amazing how much the rinse water looks like blood. I firmly believe that this helps in finish longetivity for ipe'. 'Course one other wear factor is our two new pups playing on the wood! (2nd pic) A whole lot of sun, even in winter. Winter was mild with only about 5" of snow. I am as guilty as my customers ... the ipe' has not seen a cleaning or even so much as a broom sweep since the stain was applied.

Hey Beth, Glad to oblige with the promised follow-up. Just been so busy. Taking the weekend off, I am beat to the bone. What a stretch of weather for a NE April, huh? 16 straight days of warm, no rain days. Great start to the season. College help starts Monday, not a moment too soon.

Top 'o the morning, Ken. Looked into downstreaming stripper last year but concluded that could not get a "hot" enough mix that we need for many jobs. We do not "clean" wood with NaOH, so a light mix would be of no use. Went over the M-jet with ACR Tom this spring for possible use in applying citric acid. Pretty much came to the same conclusion, just cannot mix strong enough to get the correct ratio on the wood. We'll start the above Aussie oil strip with 8 oz./gal. of NaOH, 8 oz. liquid/gal. of 633-ADD booster, and some thickening agent. The hard part will be the balustrade. Getting Aussie oil out of cedar can be a chore.

Daniel & Kevin, These pics taken on 4/13/08, exactly one year after the citric - oxalic test start. If you recall, the ipe' handrail was treated with citric on part, oxalic on another part. Ready Seal medium red stain was applied twice. 1st pic is the citric side, 2nd pic the oxalic. I cannot distinguish much of a difference. The citric side might have a bit more pigment remaining. Both side ares starting to fail somewhat as can be seen in some greying areas of the wood. The med. red color has also severely faded. Third pic is the floor. This is somewhat disappointing in that this was another contractor's "special hardwood sauce", 2 parts Ready Seal, dk. brown - dk. red, mixed with one part WoodTux WHG color. As can be seen, the floor is pretty much "washed out" of color and is graying. There is some pigment left under the roof overhang and where the table shaded the floor, but not much. Disregard the balustrade spindles, gate, and posts. These are 20 yr. old PT SYP. The handrail and floor get full sun nearly all day. Of course, one doesn't walk on the handrail, maybe this is the difference? Also the handrail is 2 x 6 as opposed to the deck floor which is 5/4 x 6 ipe'. What is encouraging is the teak furniture. Like the ipe', the teak was left to weather for a full year before cleaning and applying Ready Seal light brown stain. The furniture was put away for the winter but has held onto its coloring quite well.

Daniel, Nice, I really like red mahogany. Starting a pretty big mahogany - cedar job on Monday that has to be stripped of multiple layers of Aussie oil. Thinking of paying Diamond Jim a consulting fee for the most effective stripper mix. It would be worth it 'cause I know this is going to be a tough one...

Nice Celeste. A few more of those tables and chairs and you could set up a first class bar on that ipe' deck.

Andrew, Although we do not use EFC-38 specifically, we do use another percarb wood cleaner that is similar. Mixed at 6 - 8 oz./gal. of warm water, and usually sprayed on by a Delavan pump. For small jobs we often use a backpack sprayer. Your problem may be not getting enough solution to the surface of the wood. Using a brush to apply percarbs or brighteners is too time consuming and difficult to get enough onto the wood. Generally figure coverage at about 100 sq. ft. per gal. of solution.

Turned 55 yrs. yesterday. Got the best, most appropriate, and true card in all those years.

Hey Scott, You Nebraska Cornhuskers makin' a fortune off of ethanol corn? Geeze, the shuckin's probably worth more than Florida real estate these days. Thanks to you, Beth, and Jetstream for the kind wishes. Got curious on the quote, and the best I could find is that B. Franklin wrote that in a letter to a French economist in 1779. Problem is ... it was about wine! Certainly figures, as old Ben was Ambassador to the French Court for 9 years. Disappointing, as those frogs still know nothing about beer! But still makes a great card and even better sweatshirt. Most have no clue in this country of history so it's easy to fool 'em!

You learn something new every once in a while. Finished a PT restore this AM. Real nice customers. She has 3 prized flowering plants tight against the perimeter of the deck. Get to the job and wadda ya' know, 3 old wooden bushel baskets are covering these plants. For those near my age, you remember. Very thin, wide wood slats, with solid wood bottom, wired together with 1/2" spaces between the slats. Wire loop handles. Should have taken a picture, you would recognize 'em in a second. Forget the tarps, or watering every 10 minutes. These things are great. Airflow through the sides, and solid protection on top. Gotta' go to a Farmer's Market and see if these baskets are still available.

Doug, From the close up pictures, the wood looks like PT, possibly spruce or fir. Do not like the wear pattern or color of the wood. Jon Chapman may be right that some type of silicone stain was used.

Pete, Nice. Pictures can be deceiving. The stairs in the 2nd pic look very orange while the floor in the same upper pic looks completely different, more of a rich mahogany color. Don't like the orange, really like the mahogany.

Yummy multiple Behr's something ruining a nice WRC deck. Could be a tough strip. Customer requests RS natural cedar stain. Call or email for particulars.

Job filled and under way.

In a nutshell, perfect. Old enough to remember Rachel Carson. Pesticides were going to "kill" the earth. Then there was the "population bomb". Procreation of humans spelled mass disaster of famine and resource poverty. Pesticides helped spark an agricultural productivity revolution. 3 billion people later and the world is overall much better fed, educated, and of higher quality of life today than in any period my own lifetime. Got so bad in the 70's that people were seriously considering if the horse and buggy could keep us mobile as petroleum was near extinction. Pessimists hem and haw, scream and shout, and in my meager experience enjoy being miserable. Optimists bide their time, have a grasp of history and belief in the power of human endeavor. Human history favors the optimist.

What? Are you saying it is illegal to sell redwood in MD? If this paternal madness does not stop soon, we are all doomed. Whats next, WRC, ipe', mahogany? If MD is pandering to silly tree huggers, NJ cannot be far behind.

Matt, You may want to follow up with Beth's suggestion to talk to Diamond Jim Foley. I'm a percarb kind of guy, especially on bare wood, but Jim is a self taught master at using bleach solutions on cedar to prep. I know first hand that he does some truly remarkable work.

Good point, Jon. Much of this "Go green" hoopla is marketing nonsense. Corn to ethanol is Big Ag's way of keeping the industrial farms profitable.We have used citric acid brighteners/neutralizers for the past 7 yrs. as opposed to oxalic acid. Is that "green"? Did it originally for helper and foliage health concerns, but have to admit I use the enviro friendly pitch when selling. Can't say we're doing anything different this season. Tend to shout "GO GREEN!" at Phila. Eagles games while enjoying numerous "greenies". Guess that does not count.

Matt, We generally don't do homes (hate ladders), but have run into cedar shakes from time to time, usually gazebo roofs. Here are a few pics of a particularly bad one. Straight sodium percarbonate heavily applied and quite high pressure wash twice, to remove all the years of mildew, mold, and dirt. The shakes did not fir up much. Soaked up the RS, good old med. red. These shakes were old. 3 times the remaining thickness on the shaded side of the roof. Amazing how sunlight and time degrades wood.

Matt, Funny. You on the west coast work with redwood daily. Here in NJ, going on 7 yrs of business, I have only seen and worked on 1 redwood deck. The only redwood seen around here is used on hot tub enclosures. The tannin issue hit me on my one and only. Regular RS test patch, within a second, turned a nasty black. Tom of ACR Products overnight shipped some Ready Seal redwood only and problem solved. Figure this particular wood was old, very mature growth stock. Deck was 24 yrs. young, had not been maintained for nearly 10 years, and the wood cleaned up to near pristine condition. Just loaded with natural oils, resins, tannins, whatever. Assume newer redwood is probably plantation grown, possibly genetically altered, and harvested prior to establishing full extractive content.

Terrific job Matt. Probably the first and last time we'll see RS med. red on plywood!