RPetry

Ken & Rod, It was a tough job. 'Course yours truely did all the "high" work, ie: prepping, staining, and walking all over the top of the pergola. Did not want my college graduate helper risk his neck! The job turned out well. The customers were great, had a very nice pool and we were invited to use it. The night before the 2nd day of staining, I had a viscious hangover. Had been out with friends the night before and closed down a local gin mill. That morning was hot and humid and I lasted until about 11:00 AM. Jumped into the pool, and fell asleep on an air mattress. Woke up about an hour later and yelled to my helper Jordan, "Its good to be boss!". Don't think the kid ever forgave me for that!

I'm with Greg. See a lot of failed CWF around here, not sure if its cedartone. The big box stores seem to carry it. By the time we are called in, its usually a dark mildew tone. The oil based has always stripped easily for us. But then again Larry thought maybe a dozen separate coats of the stuff? Holy smokes, didn't the customer clue in after two or three? Geeze, no wonder it came off like "rubber cornflakes"! Great description.

Kevin, I remember this job, it was a big one. Recall measuring and counting the pergola board runs. Including the support posts, I was shocked at the sq. footage. With that many boards, even the 1.5 inch sides add up. Now there's a trick I'd like to learn. We would have had a bunch of canvas tarps covering the patio below. We "flood" all wood with RS trying to get the maximum amount of oil into the wood, and drips and runs are inevitable.

Kevin, Hah! Found out. Pergolas are pure hell. Shane of Texas has a neat trick, he builds a "paint booth" around the d*mn things with a lot of plastic sheeting and then sprays Bakers. Respirator and full body suit recommended. Want an eye opener? Spend some time figuring the total sq. footage of wood treated on a pergola. Way more than one would ever guess. Obviously due to treating all four sides of the wood. Price accordingly. Here's a pic of our worst one to date. Stripped with NaOH, neutralized with citric, then sanded(!), and finally finished with Ready Seal natural cedar stain. This monster seemed to take forever to complete.

Yaz, I generally agree with you, that is one of the primary reasons we use and advocate Ready Seal stain. We do not do many solid oil jobs, but this particular customer was my first, six years or so ago. Two reasons for stripping this job. First, two separate layers of 1600 were on the wood a total of 6 years and the stain itself was starting to fail. Solid oils are similar to exterior paints, and you do not want to put a new app of oil over a failing substrate. Second, gave Cabot a call on this one. As the new 7600 series solid oils are different from the old 1600 non VOC compliant solid oil series, Cabots suggested stripping off the old 1600 oil. Probably would have done this anyway because of reason #1. Charlie, I'm not a big fan of solid stains, I like the look of wood. However, solid oil jobs do not have to look like "crap". Picture of the above job finished. I think it looks pretty good.

James, Depends on the Cabot product. If it is the oil based solid stain, it can be mostly stripped quite easily. Finished a similar job a few weeks ago. Know this job well, its one of my original customers. Two separate coatings of Cabot's 1600 series decking stain, the last one done 3 years ago. First pic is condition prior to stripping. Stripper used was ACR 760 sodium hydroxide stripper, very similar to Bob's F-18. Mixed at 12 oz. / gal. and allowed to dwell for ~ 25 minutes before pressure washing off. As can be seen, it removed most of the solid stain. Did not have to remove it all ( a very difficult and expensive service ), just enough to get a good intact substrate. Stain applied was Cabot's 7600 series, the "new" VOC compliant product that replaced the 1600 series, same Bluestone color.

SP, We use a shurflo pump unit powered by a 12 volt battery. 12 gallon plastic tank with the complete unit on a handcart. Pump is if I recall over 2 GPM and 60 PSI. Very quick and easy to flush and change chems. Sodium percarb cleaners, sodium hydroxide strippers, and citric acid neutralizers are all applied to wood this way. Two tips. First, if you are using sodium percarbonate wood cleaners, they are initially mixed in warm to hot water. The percarb off gasses a lot until the mix cools down. If you do not want to wait, put the warm mix in a backpack type pump up sprayer and start applying. When it cools, transfer to the shurflo unit. Second, make sure you release the pressure on the shurflo when done for the day. Adds a lot of service life to the pump.

Jeff said: That could very well be. Rumour has it that some rural peasants in China continue to eat dog. Suppose to be quite delectable. Bear paw is also highly prized.

Hail Britannia! You are making most of us look like lackeys. God bless his soul, Winston Churchill, the greatest world leader of the 20th century.

For any new wood contractors or lurking DIY'ers, do not try to save a few bucks on materials or an hour of labor. Old clear western red cedar deck. Stripped off 2 unknown junk coats of clear stain (is that an oxymoron?) with ACR 760 sodium hydroxide stripper at 4 oz./gal., very easily. Straight citric acid mixed at 6 oz./gal. Makes a very big difference.

Yaz, Oh boy, a ROOA! I give up, there's no more juice to be squeezed from this lemon. You win!

Beth, Like the wood, hate the design of the chairs. Look very uncomfortable. Reminds me of a fancy replica of the old prison electric chairs.

Yaz, Brilliant! "CLUNK" is also the sound of big money dropping out of customer's pockets and landing in unscrupulous wood contractor's bank accounts! Therefor, we have a redundant oxymoronic onomatopoeic acronym!

Ken, Funny how different people can read the same thing and interperate the writing in a completely different way. The term "clear stain" seems to be an oxymoron. The phrase "junk clear stain" is generally agreed to be redundant. Hey, a redundant oxymoron in three words!

Ken, Wand marks, moi? Nah, its reflections off the siding. Wand marks crack me up. Unless you are not going to stain, who cares? I make 'em all the time, sometimes for fun!

It cannot be done.

No one can beat the unedited Great Bleach Debate. Ever.

The stuff you guys post, you should go partners in a stain manufacturing business. I'm with Ken. I like pretty colors too ... and a stain that cures on ipe'! Hah!, think I'm near a very thin edge. This has been a real fun week.

Ron, Thats not fuzzies, its very short fur. Wait 'till you have to do a hot hydroxide strip on old cedar! Very nice job for a self proclaimed newbie.

Diamond Jim, You are staining a barn? Holy Cow! Gotta be RS Dark Red.

Russell, Just got back in to this email message. We held off using the long drying WTW on this customer's ipe' deck horizontals due to forecasted thunderstorms. Set aside tomorrow to finish this never ending job and now this... It will be nearly two weeks since we started stripping this ipe' job. This guy's a stickler for sure, but so be it. For your information, 4 oz. of Japan Dryer / gal. of WTW was added for all stain on the project. I need the normal drying WTW in warm honey gold, and I need it quick. Kindly advise, cell is (609) 468-7965. We really need to get this job done.Thanks.

Matt, The existing poll can be found here: http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/wood-cleaning-restoration-decks-fences-etc/6885-2006-sealer-poll-you-using-year.html

Could not disagree more. Why use a sledge when a tack hammer will do? No stain is present, you are not stripping, you are cleaning. Percarbs are much less harsh on the wood, no plant, house, or worker problems, no ice skating and taking a tumble, no safety glasses, rubber boots, rubber gloves. Oh, and enjoy NaOH all over you and everything else when applying to the pergola.

Matt, There is already a stain poll here on TGS that has been active since last year. It has a lot of votes. Maybe look around or someone can find it for you. If you are just starting out I would advise you to try both stains. Two very different products. Make your own choice.

Kevin, The pads are very open weave. On this unusual job, sandpaper clogged in no time due to the old globs of remaining stain. The 3M pads with the Makita was my only available alternative. No matter what species, if it is exterior wood we never use any grit higher than 60 if a stain is to be applied. As far as amount of oil into the wood, really cannot say. This is cedar, and seems that every cedar deck has its own "personality". What I am saying is that the paraffinic oil in the RS penetrated fine. Speculation on my part but what may have happened is 1) heat generated by the Makitia/pads combined with natural resins in cedar formed some type of barrier on the cedar, and/or 2) the Makita effect was like a 200 grit sanding, likely "crushing" the top cellular structure of the cedar, forming another type of barrier. Net effect was that possibly much of the RS pigments and possibly superflouous RS resins did not penetrate fully and as much as normal, possibly causing a RS "film" on the surface of the cedar. Surface film and RS are not in the same universe. The stain could not perform as designed.