RPetry

I don't know. In all honesty, the WT two years ago was not a good stain. I've got pictures taken this year of two side by side decks. One with RS med. red, a strip and finish job. One with WT WHG, percarb clean and hand brushed. The vertical wood on both look fine. The horizontal floor is the shocker. Again, two years ago, but the RS deck gets more sun but who knows, maybe less use? If anyone wants pics I'll post on a separate thread. I will say that the WT 5'er I received a few weeks ago is very different from that of 2 yrs. ago. Less viscous, better integrated without stirring forever, and lambswools' ok on ipe'. It does not look or act like, forgive the expression, "alien orange puke", when you shake and bake. The late season 2005 product was terrible. I am concerned about curing. Have had 3 contractors call me, of all people, about drying problems with this batch, this spring. Finished prepping an ipe' deck this morning. Without any additive Japan Dryer, lambswooled a section of 5/4 x 12 fascia board and 5/4 x 6 ipe' step treads. The wood was dry by the time we packed up the truck. Very light, spread out application of the stain. Have asked the customer to monitor curring time over the holiday weekend. We will see. I do not want to second guess ESI if at all possible and put an outside additive into an engineered product. My chemistry is lacking in expertise.

Chris, We do not clean roofs but only restore exterior wood. However, I doubt that makes a difference. As Beth said, there will always be DIY'ers. And they will find information and help on TGS or numerous other web sites. I would rather they get good info and do a good job. Why? At least with wood, I'd guess at least half will call a contractor the next time. And if they prep their wood and stain with a quality product, makes our job easier 2 years down the road. On the contrary, we have gotten numerous jobs just by participating in discussions here on TGS. Customers find my company here and call. My recent ( up and functioning 2/07 ) website gets numerous hits from TGS and is the #1 listing on Google search for service and local area criteria, mostly due from TGS thread search bots. A lot more positives with little perceived negatives from our experience the past few years.

Got up this morning to an interesting email. A first time customer that we restored his cedar recently wrote: Anyone have any experience or suggestions? I've seen squirrels chew up cedar but never have even heard of woodpeckers harming a deck. Thanks.

Been a while since had time for TGS but have to reply to some misinformation posted on this thread. Ken, you stated in this thread: Of course Ready Seal has resins. Not "added" resins, just the resins it has always had for more that a decade. If it did not have resins the pigments would be stuck down at the bottom of the pail. Ever use Ready Seal? Jeeze, ya' don't even have to stir the stain. Shake the 5'er a few times, cut the top for your inlet and outlet hoses on the HLVP, and away you go. What allows the iron oxide pigment to remain fully dispersed and in suspension throughout the stain in the container without stirring? If I've got my simple stain chemistry right, it is the resins in the stain. My guess is that virtually every stain for exterior wood on the market contains a good dose of resins in its composition.

All you gals and guys are top notch. Great replies and information that I can pass on to my customer. Thanks to everyone. This is a great example of the power and value of TGS.

Christian, Thank you very much for the guidance. My wet 5 day old test ipe' sample board has been stored in my garage to keep out of any rain. Maybe this is a partial reason for the ipe' still being wet? Think I will try 4 oz. Japan drier in 1 gal. of WTW and apply to a small section when this upcoming ipe' job is prepped. Let it sit overnight and see if it cures. Go on from there and make any drier adjustments as needed. Unless someone else has used this recent batch of WTW on ipe' along with Japan drier and has some practical, real field experience they are willing to share. Thanks again.

Christian, Thanks for the tip. We a planning on trying WTW on a customer's ipe' later this week. As you may know, ipe' takes very little stain due to the density of the wood. Very little penetration and the stain will be hand rubbed with lambswool. Would a mix of say 4 oz. of Japan drier per gallon of WTW (warm honey gold) get the curing times back down to what is considered normal? Thanks.

Apparently there is a curing problem with one or more recent WTW batches of stain. Have a ipe' sample stained 5 days ago, still wet on the surface. Both cedar and PT samples stained 3 days ago are not wet, but moist and not dried fully on the surface. I do not care as they are sample boards. But planning on using this 5'er of WTW soon on real paying customer wood. Have been advised by other contractors to try "Japan dryer" as an additive to the WTW. Has anyone out there done this or used another solution and wish to share results and any hints to get this stain to cure?

Yaz, Dug up the pics of the old growth redwood deck done in 2005. Will be back this summer for a maintenance. RS redwood only formula is very easy to apply. Did this staining on one of the hottest days of August with no "lapping". The color is medium red. Redwood was ~25 years old, had not seen a cleaning or stain in many a moon. Original condition before cleaning. Cleaned with sodium percabonate and brightened with citric acid, no rinsing. Stained in about 95 degrees F. with RS redwood only formula, medium red. Stopped by last year while in the area and the wood looked good. Maintenance this year will be a light bleach/little soap mix and a hose off. Blow on about 3 1/2 gals. of RS and we are out of there.

Yaz, Don't know, never tried light brown on redwood. I do know that RS med. red looks great on redwood. There is a picture somewhere here on TGS of an old redwood deck we stained 2 yrs. ago with RS med. red., redwood only formula. Definitely test a small spot with regular paraffinic RS first. On old growth redwood, the tannins in the wood can turn the finish black, like in seconds after application. If so, the RS redwood only formula (which I think is linseed oil based) must be used. It is my understanding that this is somewhat unusual. As newer redwood is mostly plantation grown and harvested from younger trees, regular RS is fine for use.

Thread got away from me, spent yesterday in NYC. Ken asks: I am sure Russell's chemistry is on the money and applies to ESI as well as other stain products. In practice, that said, it does not appear to apply to Ready Seal or possibly other paraffinic oil products. I established my prep procedures on the basis of other, older, more experienced contractors that have used RS for 10+ years in the field. Their experience has been not to rinse the neutralizer/brightener off the wood when using RS for the finish stain. Probably does not make a difference on older PT, but for cedar, mahogany, ipe' and other dense woods, leaving the wood acidic may promote better stain penetration. Mike asked: No. Superior is a "loaded" word. I have never used "citralic", a blend of oxalic and citric, only straight, pure citric acid. On the one hand, oxalic seems to be "superior" as a brightening agent, as it works quicker at identical concentrations, is cheaper in cost, and in my small test, more aggressive, at least on ipe'. On the other hand, citric is "superior" in that it is not poisonous to people, plants, and animals. Citric is also "superior" as its use compared to oxalic can be an effective sales tool. As we do not rinse after application when using Ready Seal stains, it is also "superior" for my business as its use saves time. Not sure if we would use the same labor saving "blow and go" neutralizing method if using straight oxalic acid.

Ron, Ready Seal is very compatible and reportedly penetrates better if the wood is a bit acidic. Not that RS has any penetrating problems! Cedar, ipe', mahogany, merantis, etc., we have never rinsed citric acid off the wood when using RS. It is a fairly light mix, 6 oz./gal. The solid oil customers we have can be counted on one hand. I generally do not take on these jobs unless it is a relative, neighbor, or strong referral from an existing customer. Just don't care to do them. Do not know much about the stain, but have the impression that linseed oil based stains may be better with a "neutral" ph wood.

Jeff, You have let the proverbial cat out of the bag. Hope your local competition does not read this thread and follow your advice. I cannot count the times I have heard, "Thank you for returning my phone call". Or when you show up for an estimate on time, "The other company never showed up when they said they would". I strive to return requests for estimates, informational questions, etc. in emails or phone calls immediately if possible or certainly within 24 hours. If I am running 15 minutes late for an estimate, I call. Every job is contacted one to two days before starting the work, just to confirm and reassure the customer. Typical residential contractors are their own worst enemy. Many seem to have and project an attitude that they are doing the customer a favor, and are renegade individualists that only work on their own terms . Nothing could be further from the truth. I want to talk to my customers, get to know them as people and let them get to know me and my company. I want to retain them as customers, servicing their exterior wood periodically. I want them to remember Windsor WoodCare, and pass the good word along to friends and family. This is the basis of referrals which is the cornerstone of my business. And reliability in communications and showing up on time is a big part of establishing that relationship with customers.

Mike, It is probably faster and easier to lay down the stripper on the wood with your pump up, then scrub the stripper into the finish with your brush. Use the pump up again to spray more stripper on the finish after brushing. It is very important not to let the stripper dry prior to rinsing. Use your PW to give the wood a hard rinse to remove the stripper/old finish. Then rinse again with a lot of water. This is where a dual lance is helpful with the "dump" tip. If the wash water looks "sudsy", rinse throughly one more time. We have never used oxalic, only citric acid. Nearly all our jobs are stained with Ready Seal, and the citric acid is not rinsed off the wood. The only other stain we use are Cabot oil solids, and for prep we do rinse the citric acid off after a 15 - 20 minute dwell.

Mike, I know nothing of downstreaming stripper. I mean a hot NaOH mix of 12 or more oz. / gal. of stripper on the wood. A pump up is ok, just make sure to protect yourself and surroundings. A nylon brush on a pole can be used to scrub the stripper into the Cabot's. Then apply more stripper and do not let it dry out before PW off.

Mike, The solid cedar Cabot's on the front porch will probably be the toughest challenge. Yesterday, we finished stripping a 3 yr. old Cabot's old 1600 series solid oil off of a very large deck as a prep for the new 7600 series solid oil. 12 oz./gal. of ACR 760 (similar to F-18) got most of it off the horizontals, and ~ 80% off the vertical wood. Good enough for our purposes. As your porch is covered I assume, the 1 yr. old stain has probably not degraded due to UV exposure and moisture. Maybe try 12, 16, or even 18 oz. of F-18 / gal. and test a small area first. Let it dwell, possibly for 1/2 hr. or even longer, and keep it wet with more stripper. Scrubbing the stripper into the old stain can help a lot. Most of the old solid should should be removed. Probably will have to do a bit of sanding to get the final areas clean of the old stain. I would assume the semi-trans Cabot should be a lot easier.

We are the same as Ken. Guaranteed labor is one line item. State sales tax another. Job materials yet one more. This is both on the contract and job invoice.

AshburyIL, Preparation of the wood is key in stain longetivity. Proper stripping/cleaning, followed by an acid neutralizer/brightener is needed. Next comes stain. With Ready Seal, the wood can and should be a touch acidic. Pay the price for a lot of stain, as much as the wood can take, the first time around. Make sure you our your contractor has a good moisture meter and does not apply the oil until the wood is at 12% or less. Expect 3 to 4 years before a light cleaning and re-oiling. Labor and materials should run ~65% of original cost. Maintenance is the key. A lot cheaper in labor than many other stains. Never strip again. And no moisture, rain, weather issues. As oil is still in the wood, it drys out fast.

Meanwhile, the DJIA and the S&P averages are kissing record levels. Go figure. Don't let our board optimist Jeff fool 'ya. PW is a tough business to get started. If you can last 5 yrs., you're in.

Daniel, I honestly do not know. This is the first time I have used Ready Seal on both teak and ipe'. The furniture and deck get full sun all summer long. Plus we use our deck a lot. I'm hoping maybe 6 months? The idea is this. First and foremost, no more stripping. The hard work on both woods is done. Once the wood is prepped correctly, ie: stripping, percabonate cleaning, brightening, sanding, etc. and the stain applied right the first time, its a done deal. With RS, the beauty of the stain is in the ease maintenance. From now on, only a very light cleaning with a diluted bleach / very light soap mix is needed. No real need for a pressure washer. Though not so applicable to ipe' and teak, you do not have to wait for a stretch of dry weather for the wood to get to 12% or less in moisture content. As oil is still in the wood, all woods dry very fast. Maintenance staining is just replenishing substrate oils, pigment, and resins lost through time and weathering. This is very easy to do and goes fast. My thoughts are that over time with maintenance, more stain will get deeper into the wood. This is what happens to PT, cedar, redwood, mercanti's, etc. The coloring gets richer over time and the stain lasts longer with more oil in the wood. We'll see if the same is true of the very dense and hard ipe' and teak.

Kevin, Teak is the best exterior wood I have ever worked with. Ipe' is second. Both are about the best you can get.

Busman's holiday. Mothers are gone from both sides, and we do not have kids so decided to finish our deck furniture. Teak purchased about a year ago and left to weather over last summer. Cleaned about 3 weeks ago with sodium percabonate and brightened with citric acid, no rinse. Stained with one app using lambswood. Ready Seal stain, natural cedar color. This deck gets direct sun, nearly all day in the summer. To keep up with the "test", will continue with commentary and pics in August. Of course, now we have to buy a new umbrella and stand. It never stops!

Case of the cobbler's kids have no shoes. Finally got to my own ipe' deck after weeks of working on customer's wood. Two separate apps of "Diamond Jim's special sauce" stain honestly BRUSHED into the ipe' floor on two consecutive late afternoons this week by my college kid helper. God bless him, I love my college kids! Anyway, note that this is brushed, not hand rubbed lambswool, into the ipe'. We'll see how it holds up in the brutal direct sun my deck gets all summer.

Adrian, Man, that is a lot of wood. Nice job, like the color of the stain on that PT. Great house, nothing like living on the water with your boat out the back door. Too bad its not salt water!

Live like a king in Saratoga, NY during the summer throughbred season and bet the ponies.