RPetry

Kevin, Amteco is I think the parent co. of TWP. They either refine, or take the refined product from crude oil refinerers. They either produce, or distribute paraffinic oil, which is a product of crude oil. Some wood stains that use paraffinic oil as a BASE for their products use this Amteco oil. Its that simple. I have been told Baker's Gray Away uses this Amteco base, and of course, TWP. Do not know about ESI's Woodrich paraffinic oil stain, and know that Ready Seal has their supplier of paraffinic oil. Have not a clue, but it is a base product. Nothing more. Like maybe buying, I don't know, say linseed oil which is made from flax. Sure, I guess there would be various grades and purities, but it is the base of a stain, not the stain itself. The other ingredients of exterior wood stains include resins, pigments, mildewcides, and probably more. I don't know, ask Russell Cissel of ESI. He probably knows more about this stuff than anyone else that posts on TGS. ESI makes various types of stains. I'm a contractor. I stain exterior wood. I keep it simple, the old tried and true KISS method. It works for me and my customers.

Kevin, The base paraffinic oil may be the same, but I am sure the resins, pigments, mildewcides etc. are different. TWP makes a lot of different stains, only one series that I think is paraffinic oil based. Don't have time for much at the moment, except for doing estimates and trying to catch up on staining.

Kevin, Thompsons has been a standing joke for many years as they use to produce maybe the worst mass manufactured stain in the US. Have they changed from a marketing co. to a producer of decent product? Don't know.Penofin has a pretty good reputation but have never seen it on retail shelves back here, used it, or run across any exterior wood that had been stained with it. So don't know. Aside from one series of TWP, forget maybe the 100?, do not know of any retail paraffinic oil. Could not get that TWP here in NJ so never used it. The base oil I believe is produced by Amteco, which I believe is the same as Shane's Bakers Gray Away. I do know that RS is VOC compliant in Ca. and a lot of contractors use it on redwood. I've got pics of RS medium red on old growth redwood here on TGS, just do a search on RPetry (username) and the term "redwood". It is probably better to call Peirce. If he does not answer, just leave your tele. number and he will return the call. That is how we have communicated for the past 4 years.

Kevin, Someone makes a stain called McCloskey Man o war? Thats a hoot. Available in Walmart? Is it made in China from rice oil? I don't know much about most stains. See a lot of bad jobs, but I think many failures and longetivity issues are due to bad preparation. Since I did not do the work, can't comment. Started with Wolman's F&P, was an ok stain, but have not used a drop in 4 years. Did one PT deck in Nov. 2 yrs. ago with WTW, there is a detailed review here on TGS. For the past 4 yrs. been using RS exclusively. Recently posted some color samples on cedar, but you will have to search for the thread. It was posted within the past few weeks. Oh, do a few Cabot solid oils, only a few, and always used the 1600 series. Now due to the change in VOC regs, its the 7600 series here in NJ. Don't know about the 7600, but have my first, original customer to redo sometime in June. Oh, use to use Cabot's Aussie Oil on hardwoods. No more. Read too many problems with VOC changes and I can't stand that friggin' tung oil. Its a nightmare to strip, even off ipe'. So its gone from my bag of tricks. Do not know if there is a distributor for RS in Ca. or surrounding states. Do know that I call my distributor here by 2:00 PM and it is delivered the next day via UPS. 30 gals. or more and the shipping is free. No inventory problems here. Like I posted earlier, call Peirce.

Kevin, Call Peirce Fitchett, the national sales manager of Ready Seal. He likes contractors and loves to talk. It is part of his job. Phone is (757) 599-4424, email is peirce@readyseal.hrcoxmail.com Gotta go, shower, and do some estimates.

Daniel, Ok, that's about 6 months. Maybe even earlier, my ipe' deck gets full sun nearly all day long. I like the Halloween timeframe, gives me an excuse to wear my Bleach Bandito costume. Yeah, it is fundamentally a difference in business models and philosophy in what is good for exterior wood.Speaking of teak, percarb cleaned my deck teak furniture and will citric acid it and the remaining ipe' deck when I get caught up on staining customer's wood. Will post pics of RS on teak.

Daniel and Kevin, You asked for it, you got it. First 2 "long" shot pics were taken ~ 10 minutes after the 2nd RS mix lambswooled into the ipe' top rail. Stain is still a bit wet. Closest (bottom) oxalic, farthest (top) citric. Small coloring difference. Pic taken from 2nd story window. Right side, including gate top oxalic, left side citric. Oxalic is just a shade lighter in color. Next two pics were taken 20 hrs. after 2nd RS oil application and stain is dried but not yet cured for color. Immediately above is a citric closeup. This is the oxalic ipe' in closeup. Once dried, virtually no difference in coloring is noticeable to my eye. So Daniel's longetivity test begins on 4/21. What say you, check after 6 months?

Daniel, I like to joke around a bit on the boards but all kidding aside, I am married for 18 years to the finest woman in the history of the world. Judy is also in public education, first as a teacher and for the past 15 yrs. as a school adminstrator, currently an assistant principal in an 800+ student K-3rd grade elementary school. No kids, both married relatively late in life. But we are getting a new Schnauzer pup next month and if I have my way, another English Spaniel Springer pup soon thereafter. We both love dogs. I know I am probably low on the typical "husband" scale as measured by Oprah, but my wife seems to be able to put up with me for all these years. She is truly a saint. Doesn't mean I don't fool around. Been slowly accumulating a stable of wood minxes over the past 6 years as shown in this pic. As you might guess, that is me in the middle looking like Don Imus. My first filly, and she's been running with me for a long time, is Barbara Vogel of ACR on the right (my left). Barbara is the backbone of my barn, with a svelt, sexy German accent that will drive any sane man crazy. Unfortunately, she is married to Tom Vogel, my business supplier. The Vogels own ACR Products of Easton, Pa. To the left (my right) is one tough acquisition. Can't get her cheap in claiming races, this one runs in stakes company. Stalked this filly for the past two years and still not completely sure if she's part of my stable. Think I got her at a time of injury, notice the mid section wraps. Always had a hankering for blondes. The '60's blinkers will be coming off the next time she runs. If you have not guessed its Beth of TGS fame. Rod owns her papers and ain't giving her up. Rod is also younger, stronger, and more handsome. I don't have a shot! Enough of this nonsense. Clear, warm weather is finally suppose to arrive here in the Northeast tomorrow, so it will be time to get back to work!

Yaz, Hah! I never could get measurements right. Good thing I'm not a chef. Old Daniel has got the recipe. Down in D.C. with a girlfriend for 4 days. Man oh man, to be young, footloose, and carefree again. Just thinking about it makes me feel 20 yrs. younger!

Daniel, You're a lucky guy. Wish my wife would let me do that! Welcome back.

Rod, The citric is food grade, at least that is how it is described at the chemistry store. Picture of the bag as follows: Kevin, Another poster on the thread thought that a parafinnic oil stain would "leech" or I guess, wash out at the first rain. I do not see this, but judge for yourself. The application and weather conditions could not have been more adverse when the RS was applied. I would guess that it is a general observation and experience on the difficulty of ipe'. This is one tough wood. Not sure of what you are trying to say in your 2nd paragraph. I'll try to remember to take pics a few weeks out. Where is Daniel (plainpainter)? This is his experiment.

Daniel & Kevin, Finally, the rain stopped for a while to take a pic of dry wood. Still cold and nasty here in NJ but better weather is coming this weekend. I'll get a second light app on the wood when conditions warrant. Color variation still apparent, though not as extreme as in the wet picture in the above post. To be expected, look at the raw ipe' on the deck floor and treads. And no, the paraffinic oil, resins, pigments, whatever, did not "leech out" as speculated earlier on this thread. The stain was applied in mid 40's temperatures, and it rained about 6 inches with blowing winds starting maybe 18 hours later. I'll lambswool on a second light app of the RS mix soon as the weather looks like it is improving.

Daniel, Kevin, anyone else following this thread, Preliminary results. 1st stain app. but there is a very noticeable stain coloring difference between the oxalic and citric stained wood. Oxalic on the right, including the small piece, and citric on the left. This is not board difference. The handrail has been stained twice before without this effect. This is acid neutralizing / brightening difference. I really have to learn to take photos. Note the fine toes and camera strap at the lower right!

Jeff, Interesting thing about freedom, never know where a topic will lead. I was going to make a comment about eating crow and fish, but nevermind. Went to a wicca (white) gathering on All Hallows Eve once when I was in my 20's. Kind of interesting, but so was the girl I was with. Didn't worship and didn't stay with the girl long. Did go to Sunday School when I was a kid. Am I forgiven? After this thread, will never forget what the fish symbol means.

Charlie, My apologies. I am very ignorant when it comes to religion. Did not mean to be sacreligeous or anything, especially on a Sunday morning! No, not at all. I think the wood looks real good on your business card. I had a graphic artist do my logo 4 yrs. ago, and he put something similar together for me. Actually was a customer with a nice mahogany deck. Had Keith rearrange some stuff and put my website on my card, etc. Aside from a few element spacing changes, my card now looks like this: Keith does very good work. Have him "blowing up" the size of the logo now, so I can get a good quality graphic on my truck.

Yaz, Ok, I have heard of the Black Crows. Was a pretty good band, no? Riddled with crows feet, crow flys, Toto, Hah! Think you are trying to confuse this old bird. She isn't messing with Rosie O'Donnel is she? That woman has a monster head that looks like a pumpkin. If I play my cards right, my wife and I will be moving permanently to Costa Rica in a few years. Figure get a silent citizen partner and open up Windsor WoodCare South. Distribute Ready Seal products to all of Central America. Hah!

Jeff, Yeah, he was real mad. Like I thought he was gay or something. It was pretty funny. I am getting old. No earrings, but I do need two hearing aids. Yaz, Kind of knew it had something to do with Lance but I never keep up with that kind of stuff. Who is Cheryl Crow?

Daniel, On the photos, will do. That is a bad pic. Photographer I am not. Having worked with ipe', knew it would be next to impossible to get any valid stain quantity measurement on this test, especially with the small area. That is true. Subjectively, while applying, noticed no difference on the ipe' or old PT SYP wood on citric verses oxalic. Going to be a while before the 2nd stain app. We are having a monsoon today with rain and possible snow showers through Tuesday night.

Jeff, I honestly did not have any idea what that "fish" symbolized. Goes to show how ignorant a secular Yankee godless heathen can be. An acquaintance a few winters ago asked me to see if I could create a logo for his anticipated part-time interior painting business. Went out on the web, got a nice wavy colorful rainbow, changed it a bit, and put his name on. I show him the first draft and he is appalled and really mad. Come to find out some half-moon rainbow symbol has something to do with gay rights or gay lifestyle, still not sure. Like those yellow plastic bracelets that everyone wore for a while. Never did figure that one out.

Charlie, Real nice. The wood looks like clear cedar. Keith of KBK GraphX redesigned my cards last month. Does fine work at reasonable prices and delivers the goods quickly. What is the "fish" outline next to the Discover card, something symbolic or do you accept fish for payment?

Charlie, I do not know. The customer does not know. She is waiting for information from the original contractor, a painting co.

You are more than welcome for the pigment, I have no use for it. Does this allow at least one hug with that wood minx Beth? WTW over Aussie oil? Hope you never have to strip it. Hope to see you both tomorrow in Baltimore.

Scott, I don't know, that is a far reach in many cases. For wood, I've seen more than a few ask for help when they do not have a clue how to ask. No pictures, no history of stains, wood type, etc. If they do not do due dilegence and a bit of effort and learning, they deserve no response. And without that info, any responses are guesswork and most likely false. TGS and other web sites have a ton of information open to the public. Let the public clean and stain their own wood. At least here in NJ, they will contract it out the next time. Guessing 7 out of 10.

Scott, I have to disagree. Information is now pervasive, free, available to those that have the skill and desire to search and learn. Its a new paradigm for those with access to the internet and the ability to separate the wheat from the chaff. As a business, what do we have to hide? Joe Schmoe looking over your sholder while you work hard, with a few grand in equipment, and the skills and chemicals to do an efficient job? Give 'em the info on line, go ahead, let Mr. Homeowner do the job himself. I'm a wood guy. For three years I have let my customers know that they can maintain their wood themselves. Written instructions, my supplier and I will provide the stain. I think most like the honesty and empowerment to know that they can do this themselves. One customer has asked for the instructions. Zero customers have done the work themselves. Most, at least in my area, are too busy being lawyers, car mechanics, stock brokers, small businessmen, to take care of their property. They know they do not spend enough time with the kids and wife, let alone getting a round of golf in on a busy schedule. Pressure washing their concrete, cleaning their roof, house or gutters, maintaining their deck, is very low on priorities. Give them the information. Let them know what is what. Be honest and forthright in your business. It is 2007 and times have changed. So have your customers.

Marginal conditions. Finally got to 50F about 4:00PM this afternoon. Wind blowing at 10-20 knots. Cold, but I do have to try and make a living. First app. of RS 50/50 mix dark red/dark brown put on the ipe' test toprail. Lightly applied quantity wise with lambswool, and a natural bristle brush on the PT and corners. Picture taken maybe 35 min. after application. Still wet on the oxalic side, tacky on the citric. Citric was done first but took all of 10 minutes. Color difference noticeable with the citric being darker. Not any useful data, the stain is still wet. Close up of the dividing line at the gate between oxalic and citric. Jeeze, forgot to stain the PT bottom board. Well, what do you expect from an amateur? Anyway, the initial color difference is apparent between the two separate acids, but does not mean a thing at this point. Stain is still wet, temps are cold. Wind howling. Be out of town tomorrow and weather looks bad until Tuesday. Second app when business and weather conditions warrant.