RPetry

John, The builder used just linseed oil, without added mildewcides / fungicides? If so, that has got to be some type of mold / mildew / fungus. What is troubling is the close up picture. It looks like the discoloring is beneath the surface, or into the substate of the wood. Have seen this in the past here in the States. A major manufacturer of questionable quality linseed oil based wood stains did not use effective mildewcides for years. I would try Shanes suggestion of testing a spot with bleach. If that doesn't work, on some woods a very long, and I'm saying 4-6 hours of dwell time of a strong NaOH solution may work. But its murder on the wood and near impossible to do.

Michael, I am "old school" and do not like to use anything but oil based stains on exterior wood. Cabot makes solid oil decking stains, believe it is the 1600 or 7600 series of products, dependent on the area of the country. Surface prep is key. 2 separate coatings gives maximum service life but imparts a sheen to the finish.

Joel, Those pictures are scary! What is that stuff? Sure does not look like any exterior wood stain I have ever come across. Can anyone verify that some Thompson products look like this mess? The coloring and texture almost look like an old, dried polyurethane. When faced with something you cannot strip with NaOH, you may want to bring out the big guns. There are specialty strippers available that can remove near anything, but are very expensive and labor intensive to apply. I've used a product called BTN BFS-II, a Back to Nature stripper that works on near anything. Napier Environmental makes a similar product, do not recall the name. Before purchasing in quantity, try and get a sample to test on that mess.

Jeff, That is great news. Your example of the daily "take" is enlightening. Us poor woodies never have a day like that! Man, you almost make me waht to be a pressure washer! Couldn't happen to a nicer guy, and your growth is no fluke. You said: Takes time and effort but there is a lesson for new and old contractors alike. "Workin' the biz" should be a mantra.

Same here. Materials are estimated but billed on quantity used. Seems the most fair to both customer and contractor.

Jeff, How about "name the puppy?" Every kid should have a dog to grow up with. 'Course don't know about kids, do not have any. Do know a bit about dogs. But was a kid once and some of my fondest memories were me and my dog.

Daniel, I can't wait till it gets warm enough to get started! Yes, I have always used pure food grade citric acid crystal for a neutralizer / brightener, nothing else. No soaps, no sufactants, no fillers. Just citric acid. Dissolves and mixes in about two seconds in cold water. Apply it and you are done. I am not a chemist. But I have been restoring decks for a while. Results matter to me and my customers. And over the years, the results have been fine. I cannot help on the WTW experiment. I do not have any.

Any company that cannot stand on their own merit will eventually fail. Ironclad business principle.

Ken, Salesman, marketer extroidinaire! Seven closings in one day is one hellava' birthday! Good for you. Now, the only problem is, when can we get back to working on wood? Weird early April.

Beth, Who is Harry Potter? We do not have children. What happened to the Hardy Boys? When is winter going away?

Daniel, Ok, the citric is the control. Will be timed for dwell and throughly rinsed. Same time and rinse for the oxalic. Both to be mixed 6 oz. / gal. When is the problem. It is 38F. here right now and not forecast to get above 45F. today. Tomorrow is not much better. I would like to wait for temps above 50F. for a few hours before applying the acids. I do not plan on changing my modus operandi in production work. I have never rinsed my citric acid solution on any wood, even in the long gone days of using Wolman's F&P stain. Stain longetivity and color have never been a problem. Actually, this could work out to be an even better test. The remainer of the ipe' deck will be treated with citric and not rinsed, as is my normal procedure. I do plan on staining the test top rail before this so no further citric acid treatment will effect the test wood. Wonder if there will be any noticable difference. In effect, three separate tests will be going on.

Kevin, You stated: Yes. This is normal procedure with prepping exterior wood. Ah, with one caveat. I am guessing some exterior wood stains should not be applied on an acidic wood. Thus, the stain manufacturer may require a water rinsing of the acid neutralizer / brightener prior to applying the stain. My normal process with Ready Seal stains is to apply the citric acid and either come back the next day or start staining shortly thereafter if it is a hardwood or a very sunny, warm, and dry day. No rinsing. Thus I guess I am just brightening the wood and acid'fying it, not neutralizing it. Did I just make up a new word?

Kevin, Ok, Daniel concurs, its a rinse off of both the citric and oxalic acids. Both acids will get the same dwell time. Next question, which should be used first which will default to the control? Keep in mind that I have never used oxalic, but from what I understand it is quicker acting and more "harsh" in the sense of being "stronger", even though both will be mixed at 6 oz. /gal. Start with the citric, time until the ipe' looks brightened, then rinse. Or start off and do the same with the oxalic? Does it matter? Again, I'll defer to Daniel on this, its his experiment. You mentioned in a post above, Is this an oxalic result? I've not noticed any "burning" or "soft fiber" remaining after citric acid use.Anyway, two pics attached. The ipe' was cleaned with percarb, allowed to dry, and lightly sanded with 60 grit using a random orbital. No acids have been applied yet. First is a close up of the deck floor. Second is our test bed of 2 x 6 ipe' top rail running the length of the deck. http://windsorwoodcare.com/images/bboard_photos/dscf0015.jpg http://windsorwoodcare.com/images/bboard_photos/dscf0017.jpg If you want to compare to original condition before cleaning, I posted 4 pics on the 2nd page of this thread.

Ken, You mentioned having to do estimates yesterday. Hope you closed on all three jobs. Now that would be a birthday present! Beth, That 2nd link is truly disgusting. Lets see, Pickle, Black Pepper, Booger, Dirt, Earthworm, Ear Wax, Sausage, Rotten Egg, Soap, Vomit. I just have to vote for Vomit.

Stephen, Like Greg said above, I only use the dual lance for PW off chems from the wood. Do not do any downstreaming. Once you blow off the stripper, percarb, or bleach mix, its great to just twist the handle to dump tip low pressure high flow mode to rinse. Its like switching from a PW to a garden hose in 1 second. Works great for horizontal wood. For balustrade, fascia, most vertical wood I use a standard gun maybe 3 feet long with a hp flex hose on the end. Its a lot lighter and will bend maybe 60 degrees to get those weird angles. I am thinking about getting an M-5, which is I think a variation of the x-jet. Tom Vogel of ACR has made some in house changes to the ones he sells but I do not know what they are. I just know I trust Tom as the guy is a wizard. The M-5 will be used to apply my citric acid only. Figure it will be much faster than using my shurflo setup.

Kevin, This is Daniel's experiment, I'm just supplying the ipe' deck. So he is in charge of protocol. I am a bit confused with your rinsing statements. Are you talking about rinsing the oxalic and citric acids off the wood after dwelling? If so, you raise a procedure I had not considered. Bear with me, I have never used oxalic acid on wood. For 5 years I have only used straight citric acid mixed at 6 oz./ gal. to brighten /neutralize strippers and percarb cleaners. And it never is rinsed off wood that will be stained with Ready Seal. Well, if it rains hard that night, but never on purpose. Hey Daniel, help me out here. Am I suppose to rinse off this oxalic acid? Shane, No, not at 6oz./gal. or else I'm color blind. Just brightens the wood to a "new" type look. Not sure about Atlantic City but in some areas of NJ it use to be that way in some public bidding of contracts. Hopefully, not so prevalent today. Political connections may still be a big help.At ACR last month they had a new machine that could probably clean the AC boardwalk ipe' in no time flat. It's made for concrete, so it would be perfect for cleaning ipe'!

News item: Metallica may be a cool name for a heavy metal band, but a Swedish couple are struggling to convince authorities it is also suitable for a baby girl. Michael and Karolina Tomaro are locked in a court battle with the nation's tax agency, which rejected their application to name their six-month-old child after the legendary rock band. "It suits her," Karolina Tomaro, 27, said. _____________________________________________ Goes to show the so called freedoms granted in semi-socialist Sweden. Thank your lucky stars for America. Frank Zappa (rest his genius soul) named his four children Moon Unit, Dweezil, Ahmet Rodan, and Diva. Liberty for all!

Rod, I'm not sure of the complete AC boardwalk surface, but a large portion was replaced with ipe' about 30 years ago. It has never seen a finish. Not sure if they clean it periodically or not. Now there would be a nice contract! Anyone here with political connections?

Ipe' may be a "fad" for those that like to impress neighbors and other socialites. But for some of us that work on decks daily and have some appreciation of quality wood, ipe' may be near the pinnacle of natural exterior wood. Finished, unfinished, or halfway. If only the Atlantic City boardwalk could talk.

Paul, Makes me want to be 5 again. It is nice to take care of and do your best for young children. The wood gods would surely approve.

Please do not edit or delete Philip's "edit reasons". I'm howling up here on the 3rd floor and my wife thinks I'm having a heart attack. Kudos for a sense of humor.

I post and a mention of a sponsor magically gets linked within my post. Numerous times. Whats that ogden2k doing, turning TGS corporate? Nice trick, it helps to support site sponsors. Beth posted: A week is enough time? I put a normal order in and it is there the next day. Granted, I'm only 75 miles from my supplier, but it is normal service. Check out Bob's track record at Pressure Tek as Dustin mentioned. Contractors order equipment from him and its there in a day, maybe two. Its service, the same thing we strive to give our customers.

Greg, Sorry for your difficulties. We have all experienced this at one time or another, and have had some hard taught lessons. I do not know the type of PW you do, but it really does not matter. An honest, upfront, responsible supplier or distributor is like a silent partner for your business. The good ones are there when you need them, and will let you know immediately if they are backordered and cannot fill your order pronto. It is just plain, good, honest business sense for the supplier, and means trust and future business from the contractor. Very simple, yet may be hard to find. I PM'ed you with info on ACR Products, a company that has been my silent partner for the past 5 years. Although I am specialized in only servicing exterior wood, ACR has equipment, chemicals, parts, rentals, experience, and track record of great customer service for just about anything a pressure washer needs or does. Tom and Barbara Vogel, the owners, have actually done most PW specialties in the past, and know what it is to be a small contractor. Makes a big difference. ACR PRODUCTS

Daniel, I was referring to cedar. The furniture is teak. We spent over 2k for it and there will be no experiments on this wood! It will get a light percarb on the wood, hand brush, and hose rinse off. Straight citric neutralizer / brightener. Lambswool Ready Seal into the wood. Twice. Good thing you are not a boarder in my house. My wife would either kill us both or walk out on me! Bless her warm soul, she does appreciate good wood!

Daniel, I buy 50 lb. bags of food grade citric acid from thechemistrystore.com for ~$100 including shipping. Remember the days when I first started out and used Wolman products. Their 2.25 lb. wood cleaner / brightener was something like $19 and this was 5 yrs. ago! Thought I was smart and would special order 10 lb. jugs of the stuff. Did not take too long to learn better, more cost effective ways to obtain better chems and stains. Your experiment has got me thinking of something I have wanted to try. Citric alone works fine for me by and large. But on cedar with the cheap fasteners most deck builders and fence manufacturers use, there is that nasty looking nail bleed. I've been thinking of mixing one part citric, one part oxalic, and one part phosphoric acid to use on cedar with nail bleed problems. Not that is is going to solve the problem, but probably help in the short run at least until you are done staining. Waiting until warmer weather is, I think, a good idea. I'll stain with RS in the mid 40's, but do not like to use chems until air temps are 50 or above. Only problem is I've got a full book of customers going out until the end of May and my advertising starts this coming week. Arg! After I get my own ipe' done, I've got the 'friggin teak to do! Where there's a will there's a way. We will have some fun with this as no one can predict if, or if there will be any, concrete results.