Cyclone

I've had more than one person on the phone ask me why I care about an Org with 80 members....I couldn't care less if they have 30 or 300. It's not the numbers that matter to me....it's how this cake is getting baked that I find objectionable. At some point, someone will lose a job to a guy that has a Roof Cleaning Cert that isn't based on any process or procedure. The guy could get on the roof and blast shingles with pressure, ruin the roof and all the ***** Cert Committee cares about is that one of them made some loot off of training.

I'll tell you what I know....but let me say this, I really don't care what the man does on his own, there's nothing wrong with being a capitalist. It's when I see people with selfish interests use Org's for their own gain, and pretend they do it "for the industry" that I get ticked off. Thumbnail sketch..... He started with ARCA (American Roof Cleaners Association) as the asst of Dave Westerman who created ARCA when he was invited to leave RCIA ARCA fizzled out and in Mar 09 he hitched his pony to RCIA...posted a lot and became an instructor. In Sept 2010, he "officially" started selling training *** LINK He and others pushed for the RCIA to become a bonafied Org....In Oct 2010, he became Executive Secretary When CT discovered that he was working to open up the RCIA standards to include any cleaning methods (for increased Cert revenue), CT disbanded the board. By that point, Booz had parlayed his 2nd Org into a position with NCE and moving to ***** from NCE was almost a given. Since he began roof cleaning....he's tried, almost from the start, to monetize training and certification for himself. Within a little over 1 year of joining RCIA, where he himself claims to have learned roof cleaning from CT....he was offering himself as a roof cleaning "Expert". He could always come here an elaborate himself....almost everything I typed came from his own forum posts or CT and other RCIA members.

I talked to one guy that said he did...another person said more than one person did....I wasn't there so I'm not sure it was a lot.

As I suspected... Everyone needs to hear the entire backstory behind his RCIA departure....

That's not as disturbing as being accused of sitting on the sidelines and jumping in to criticize......when Guy is on the BOD and not only cannot change them himself, but doesn't even understand them enough to explain them. If a member of the ***** BOD doesn't understand the Certs.....who's running the show? I'd like to see an apology from him for mocking people in this thread for not getting involved in drafting this thing.

Here is your full post....there is no need to read three pages, the context is right there. Please feel free to explain the flip flop...."What is 2+2" sounds about as silly as some of the questions on the video.

I knew it was a waste of time to respond to you. I sometimes think you intentionally drag threads into the gutter to get them pulled or locked. You have no business being on the Board of anything Guy...let alone trying to be the voice of the Board. You are inconsistent....you wade where the water is warmest. There is a reason I ignored you in the big EPA thread on ***...while we were in agreement in that thread, you were once on the other side of the fence. I didn't want to hijack an important discussion by pointing out your hypocrisy. You seem to be an empty container that get's filled by whatever direction the ***** moves. When the board changes...so do you. That isn't leadership....Leaders stand up for their beliefs and principles even when they stand alone. I just showed you your flip flop on Certs (that took you less than 6 months). You have no tact and easily drift off topic into personal insults when you lose the debate. You stalked me off of PT State and after a time, and a personal invite from RM to join ***...you stalked me there as well. I had an entire thread deleted there a couple of years ago and I was told that it was done by accident because a MOD was trying to remove your personal insults. In the thread that replaced that one, I called you and spoke directly to our disagreements in an attempt to tone it down...you simply continued the same attitude. You talk like Lois Lane on the phone and like Superman on the forums. Your response above is typical Blackmon. I have no idea why you have this need to play the role of disinformation and enforcement officer for the ***** but it's not very professional. I can only imagine how the other members of the board cringe when you enter the debate. While they build bridges, you burn them. Not every comment about the ***** needs your opinion...in fact, you tend to drown out the good people that are on the ***** Board. If you are not on the Cert Commettee, have limited knowledge.....why are you even answering the questions? Basically, you are a forum attack dog with a title, no core principles, no tact and and apparently use these tactics to try and gain approval from your board peers....and in this thread, as you say, not even informed enough to respond.....and yet you do. You drive people from the ***** (as well as forums). I've been asked several times to join and help change things. My answer is always the same....I'll never join an Org that has you on the board. If there is a forum you are banned from....perhaps that's where everyone should discuss Org issues. Without your constant barking, insulting and sucking all the air out of the room....something might get accomplished.

Guy Blackmon from ***, 9-09-2012 Between September 2012 and Feb 2013.....it's morphed into exactly what he mocked. If you stand for nothing.....you'll fall for anything. I can't trust a man without principles.

Is that what you think this is....haters? What if Me and 10 friends start a group and promote each other with SEO and online marketing....one of them is in your area and we collectively dominate your SERP's, bump your website to page 2. If you didn't like that.....are you just a hater? Two things amaze me about many of the people in this industry......thinking that an Org needs to be involved in marketing...and...that it's all good as long as it's someone else's Ox being gored. I seriously doubt the ***** could do much with a national marketing campaign. The costs would be astronomical. But, that's not how things like this are done usually. There is usually focused test marketing....pinpointed. How would you like to be the lucky guy that happened to be in the market where a competitor, Certified cleaner was promoted by an Org for sake of example or proof of concept? I don't want my Ox gored....or yours.

You are incredible....If you want people to take you seriously, you need to stop acting like this guy It's not like we cant google and find out when this thing was introduced for discussion. As soon as it was, Me and several others joined in the discussion and just like this thread, we were not asked or offered any chance to be involved....it was basically...."here it is". (link:Lets Talk Certifications in our industry NOW) 09-09-2012 We can also google and find out when it was being setup And we can read.... Link: (What's going on with ***** Certifications? What is it? What stage is it at?) 09-09-2012 " Currently the standards and practices committee is chaired by myself and Charlie Soden, along with Blaine Krugard as a nominated committee member. This committee overseas the developing standards and testing committees for each field. In those committees we currently have 5 working committees, and 2 developing committees. Each of the working committees, has 2 chairmen, and some of those have more committee members under them. The developing committees are being formed still. Each committee was appointed by the bod's agreement and each committee is appoint-able by the chairs. " We didn't sit on the sidelines....the ***** apparently worked on this for at least 6 months before even presenting it......you are hearing opinion now and have been since it was introduced but all you want to do is rewrite the history and mock the people and feedback. Sometime before the first talkshoe (March 2012), Certifications at ***** were being discussed....the first I ever heard of it was in September. You make it sound as if this thing was a group effort and I simply failed to participate. This thing has been done on the hush and whenever it has been discussed in the forums, I was there. If there is nothing to hide and it's all good and you aren't here to play the role of Jay Carney and spin.....then answer questions plainly without replies like this: Answer...in the forums, not in the privacy of email. Tell us how it came to be. Explain (briefly) the Certification idea from birth to introduction....how and who actually had any input into it. What person presented the whole concept of certs? Ideas do not spontaneously appear in the mind of the whole BOD....who specifically presented this?

Surely the test has something to do with "how" too clean roofs (I'm talking asphalt shingles BTW).

Exactly....and whats another word for "ploy" [TABLE=class: the_content] [TR] [TD]Main Entry:[/TD] [TD] ploy  [ploi] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Part of Speech:[/TD] [TD]noun [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Definition:[/TD] [TD]game, trick[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Synonyms:[/TD] [TD] artifice, contrivance, device, dodge, feint, gambit, maneuver, move, play, ruse, scheme, stratagem, subterfuge, tactic, wile [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]

If someone uses a pressure washer or surface cleaner to clean a roof, can they be certified?

You mean give up not move on. You make it sound like what was done is done and cannot be changed when in reality, it's still the beginning, still happening and not unchangeable. There are more than 2 choices.... The choices you mention are 1. Be proactive and get involved (I'm assuming this means via the Org's)" and 2. Complain The truth is that choice #2 is the beginning of many other choices. In fact, we are seeing a few already within one of the Org's. We are also seeing people advocate dropping their membership which is really choice #3 but probably starts with complaining that is ignored. There are also people actually discussing a new Org....which I hope is not modeled after the two failures. As a PW'er that has never joined either of the other two, I would support an Org that was truly for the contractor. I'd wager there are other like me....still others that have joined one or both. BTW...complaining is the beginning of all change....either political or organizational. Nothing changes if people are happy and happy people don't complain. Complainers are the instrument of all change. Not all malcontents are complainers and not all complainers are malcontents.... What P@NA and UA@CC did was not handled well as you said and this seems to be a repeating cycle, and you are correct, it is time to move on. Repackaging them again and again has not worked.

Incredible.... no...beyond incredible. Some unlucky PW'er in a major city who is not a member of both Org's is about to suffer the consequences of ignoring the environmental cartel. Is this a new membership campaign technique? Maybe the Orgs should merge, you know, to avoid annoying technicalities like the Sherman Act.

All opinions are equally important and valid in a member supported Org....at least they should be. As for the issue at hand, all the education needed is in this very thread. You could grab any reasonably intelligent person off the street, let them read page one and they would understand the two sides of the issue. It's not the science or the chemistry, it's about money. In fact I can make my point/position with two quotes from you and one from Mr Hinderliter My quote, this thread and your own questions are pretty much the basis of two years of debating and arguing with you and others. You are asking Mr Hinderliter some very good pressing questions. That's great. However, you seem to be ignoring the fact that this could not have happened without the ***** allowing it either via direct permission or by abdication of leadership on an extremely important issue....In the NCAA this is called "a loss of institutional control"....which is really really what this is all about.

Apparently not everything There might be two Org's with separate boards but the wording of the first post, the statement by John Orr and the justification by Mr Hinderliter "I did not have the time for all of the proper protocol" should clear up your confusion over the "Us vs Them". The difference with respect to environmental policy of the two Org's seems about the same as Chevy vs GMC. While I'm sure the Board at GMC want's to out sell the Chevy trucks it's just a different column in the GM accounting ledger. If there was a 2000 contractor member org, without any vendors on the board or involved in any committee....would they be any less valuable an asset? They would still pay for associate membership, support conferences and round tables, buy ad space and booths.....they'd be insane not to. You don't need to give them the power to steer the industry regulations and authority to make policy decisions and press releases.

We could add pushed out and a dash of edited out to that if we wanted to be totally factual, and the ironic part is that it's been because of similar points being made in this very thread. However, in all honesty....I've been slammed for three months....I haven't had a lot of time to visit forums. BTW, I'm going to ask you for like the third time since our first conversation (by-for Org) last fall.....if not now, when? You were spot on then and the dynamics (the need) appear to be greater than it ever was. P.S. Did you just hang up on me LOL!!!

I agree and it will be quite interesting (and quite telling) watching the PTB, industry leaders, Org members and BOD position themselves on this. I don't understand why it's been so difficult for some people to follow the breadcrumb$.....the direction of both PWNA and ***** wasn't hard to read, it was like a huge neon sign. The revelations in this thread is not news....it's confirmation. Like someone said.....sheep being led to slaughter. Starve the beast....

This thread is pretty amazing reading for me. There are 5 complete flip-flops and 1 double flip-flopper. Could you people please pick a lane and stay in it? I'm not going to single anyone out, but let me say....welcome to reality, we saved you a seat!

Called and left a message..... I'd be more than happy to flip some residential work your way...would love your commercial leads. Still have that hot rig for sale? I have cash Barry Cyclone Pressure Washing 513-258-5392

20 minutes of my life to learn that I can scrub a dot off vinyl. With 5 pages of hype, I expected a spray and rinse solution.