Mike Williamson

Must be. If the picture you posted is any indication of the type of roofs you're running into, I'm at a loss. I could clean that roof with 50% and have little to no recoating needed.

Do you ever run it wide open? Or do you keep the same proportioner in all the time? If so, then how would you lose one?

I had a similar situation here last month. We scheduled a 3 week trip on the west coast, so I basically left things in the hands of the guy I have working for me. I had him answering calls and giving estimates while I was gone, since the majority of the time we were gone we were in the mountains and away from cell signals, making it almost impossible to return business calls. Everything was fine, he handled all the work I left him scheduled with and got some more work scheduled for when I got back. Everything was great...or so I thought. He wanted the week off after I got back, which was ok. The week after I got back, I started getting calls from people claiming to have jobs scheduled that week, but no one showed up. These were customers who had called me either from a mailer, or from the phone book. Turns out, he scheduled several jobs the week he was "off" and figured he'd just pocket the money and I'd not be the wiser. Problem is, he had equipment and vehicle problems early that week and never showed to the jobs. Needless to say he isn't working for me anymore.

What do my prices have to do with anything? For just the roof of the house, I'd charge $250.00 (yes, I changed the price) (providing the back wasn't any worse than the front). It'd take me about 2 hours (including blowing the pine straw off and cleaning out the gutters in the front), and shouldn't take more than 15-20 gallons of chlorine. That's an easy one. 20 minutes to stretch out the hoses and mix the chlorine, 20 minutes to blow the roof and gutters out, 30 minutes to coat the roof, 30 minutes to rinse, and 20 minutes to flush the shurflow and roll the hoses.

That would be nice. Based on their proportioner chart, it draws 2.5gpm wide open. That is, of course, if it is sized correctly for your machine. My assumption is that it has a range of pressure within which it works. For someone to say you have to ignore volume is silly. It is the combination of the volume and the orifice size that determines pressure. If you have a 3000psi machine, that simply means it is built to run at a maximum of 3000psi, not that it puts out 3000psi. It simply puts out whatever volume of water it is designed to put out. You control the pressure by limiting the opening through which that volume of water passes.(which I'm sure you realize). I've seen machines that were 3.5 gpm at 3000 psi, and machines that were 5gpm and 3000 psi. If you based the orifice size strictly on rated psi, you'd be using the same orifice (say a #9) on both the 3.5gpm and the 5gpm. The problem with that is that the 3.5gpm machine will be producing close to 600 psi through the size 9 orifice, while the 5gpm machine will be producing 1250psi through the size 9 orifice. It becomes clear why a 5.5gpm machine needs a larger orifice to operate correctly. With a size 13 orifice, the 5gpm machine is putting out close to 600psi, the same as the 3.5gpm machine with a #9. All that to show that the orifice fitting in the Xjet is designed to regulate the pressure coming through the Xjet, allowing it to function properly. Larger gpm, larger orifice.

How are you applying it? The only time I have to apply more than one coat (other than a few areas, typically) is if I was using it a bit weaker, around a 30/70 mix of 10.5% and water. 80% just seems a bit strong for shingles, especially if you're having to re-apply. Using a 50/50 mix and a relatively small tip in the shurflo, I can do an entire roof with almost no runoff at all, and not have to reapply. Sometimes there are a few spots that just won't come clean with one application, but that's at most 5% of the roof surface, usually much less than that. Wasn't trying to be a jerk, just curious about two things...how you can estimate your chlorine usage so accurately, since roof size is only one factor. As many roofs as I have cleaned, there's no way I'm going to be able to estimate within a gallon how much chlorine I'm going to use. Second, I don't see how overestimating your chlorine needs is going to cost you anything. So you have a few gallons left over...keep them and use them on the next job. I can certainly understand the rain messing things up...we've finally had a relatively dry week, the last two have been crazy with thunderstorms popping up out of nowhere in the middle of the day. Last year after the two storms that blew through here, things slowed way down for a few weeks. So you track what you use...having left over chems in your tank doesn't keep you from knowing how much you used. I'm working to get away from the system you are using, keeping a limited supply of chlorine on hand. Right now, I keep 21 2.5 gallon jugs on the truck, because the chlorine store here will not fill tanks. Thus, I have to go fill up between roof jobs, since 50 gallons or so of chlorine isn't enough to do two roofs if I'm also doing the house and driveway. It's a pain having to take the time to go fill up sometimes twice/day. An absolute waste of my time. I've finally found another store that will fill tanks, so I'm getting ready to set up my 225 gallon tank in the trailer for chlorine so I don't have to fill up as often. I currently use the tank as a float tank, which is a waste of space for the type of jobs I typically do. I'll install a 50 gallon float tank for that. I'd much rather hit the chlorine store every couple days and buy 125 gallons of chlorine. If the things you do work for you, great. I just don't get the logic behind some of them, so I ask questions.

That's about what I use also. 50/50 is typical for shingles. I've tried stronger but found that I usually use the same amount of solution, but get the same results...meaning I'm using more chlorine but not saving any time. The few tile jobs I've done I've mixed very strong, 70 or 80% chlorine, and that seemed to work well.

Well, as I've stated here and elsewhere several times, I tossed the Xjet in the same trash can as the proportioners (well, not really) and went with a downstreamer. Now I'm not dragging buckets at all, and get the same quality results.

I've always heard it is based on flow. That makes more sense, since the pressure is dependant upon the flow and the orifice size...I would imagine the Xjet needs to operate at a particular pressure range in order to be effective.

The recommended ratio (by the distributor) is 1/2 gallon of citracleen per 5 gallons of Xjet housewash mix for a 4gpm machine. Up it proportionally for a higher gpm machine. Mixed in a 5 gallon bucket, you have a solution that is 10% citracleen. Xjetting it, you are shooting 2.5 gallons of mix per minute, and 4 gallons of water, meaning the solution coming out of the Xjet is 3.8% citracleen.

You're sure it isn't 24.5 gallons, or 26.75? Do you buy your chlorine as needed? I mean, do you schedule a job, and then go buy the chlorine you'll need (and no more) that day or the evening before? I don't get the not being able to afford to overestimate your chlorine needs. If I use less than I expected, I simply use less. If I use more, I use more. I typically buy chlorine 50-75 gallons at a time, usually twice a week, sometimes three (depending on how much of my work that week is roofs.). I just use what's needed for the job, and resupply when I get low. Measuring the roof so I can guess at the precise amount of chlorine I will need won't save me any money...I'm still going to use what I need to use to get the job done.

I think it has a lot to do with where you live. Some areas are much more strictly enforced by the local DOT. I do know of folks who have been pulled and had their rigs examined and their MSDS sheets verified. Not in my area (which is good, since I don't have one MSDS sheet on the trailer), but in other areas. I agree with doing what's best for you and your company. Some buy from local suppliers exclusively, or from distributors they've met online. Others buy exclusively from the cheapest supplier they can find. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle. I don't buy anything locally, simply because there are no local suppliers here, other than a paint store that rents HD style washers and who think that the 4.5 sizing on a tip means it is for a 4.5 gallon machine. Items where customer service and/or warranty isn't an issue (tips, connectors, hoses, etc) I'll buy based on cost. Items where quality makes a big difference, or where customer service is an issue (pumps, motors, chems) I'll buy from someone I know and trust.

Rapport :)

10 year old roof, 4:12 pitch, fairly evenly black with algae except below 3 36" ridge vents and 1 12" flue pipe.

Either way, 15 gallons of mix seems an awful lot. That's all. And it's 1:2.2 through the Xjet. You seem awfully concerned with exact ratios, etc, so I though you'd want to have the correct Xjet ratio. :) As much time as I've spent on Steve's board, and elsewhere, I've never seen anyone mention using 2-3 gallons of citracleen per bucket. I think you're confusing someone's usage of chlorine with their usage of citracleen. Were someone on Steve's board to say they were using 2-3 gallons of soap per 5 gallons, there would be several posts questioning the overusage of soap and mentioning the correct usage.

I promise you I'm getting way more than 1:20 or 1:10. More like 1:4, though I haven't checked it. I know I drain a 5 1/2 gallon bucket pretty dang quick, just about as fast as I did with the Xjet. Also, the Xjet with a 5.5 isn't 1:2. That's what you get with a 5gpm machine. 5.5gpm will give you a 1:2.2 ratio. The Xjet draws at a steady 2.5gpm, regardless of the machine size (with no proportioners).

I think you used the beige proportioner rather than the pink, and got a higher ratio of posts than you intended. Better be careful and rinse the plants a bit more this time. :eek: The first thing I did with both Xjets I've purchased is toss the little baggie of proportioners in the garbage. I just don't have time to worry about that crap. If I want a weaker mix, I add more water. If I want a stronger mix, I add less water. I mean, we're washing houses here, not spraying acid on trucks or brick or something where the ratio really needs to be adjusted depending on what you're washing. So what if the chlorine is a bit stronger than it needs to be for a particular wash...as long as I rinse the way I should, everything is fine. Some folks seem to like to make things way more complicated than they need to be.

How big are these houses??? 15 gallons of mix per HOUSE??? Wow. With the downstreamer, I'm using about 5. With the Xjet, it was 10 at the most, for a typical ranch style 2500sf house. Doing three houses/day, I'd spend maybe $8.00/day in soap. $40.00/week, $160.00/month. If your present soap works well, why change? If not, maybe you're getting what you're paying for. :)

No problem at all, if that's how you want to do it. I just don't see the need to take the time, and I don't think I've ever had a customer question how I arrived at a price. They don't care...what they do care about is whether I know what I'm doing, whether I'm going to kill their plants, and whether their shingles will be damaged. A fancy estimate sheet doesn't answer any of those, but a quick 5 minute conversation after eyeballing it and giving them the price does. Exactly how much chlorine do you need for a 2453 square foot shingle roof?

Ditto...though all downstreamers don't draw the same. Some are better than others, this one works well, and as Don said, is SS so the chlorine doesn't destroy it. If mine broke tomorrow, I'd buy another one Thursday morning.

4.5 gallons of 10.5% and 1/2 gallon of citracleen. Run through the downstreamer until the bucket is empty. Refill bucket. :) Simple...a 0040 tip is much larger than, say, a 0006 tip, so my pressure is much much lower...low enough to allow the downstreamer to draw. It draws with a size 40 tip just fine. I get a little draw with a size 20 tip, but not enough. There are plenty of ways to get water 30'+ in the air and keep the downstreamer drawing. Shoot, stick a 1/8" hosebarb in a 1/4 male plug and use that.

At most, a gallon, if that. between 1/2 and 3/4 of a gallon per bucket of housewash is just fine. I coudn't save $500.00/month in soap...I don't use that much. Even if I cut my soap costs in 1/2 if I could find a product as good at 1/2 the cost, I might save $100.00/month. Just not worth my worrying about and spending hours trying to find a solution.

Haven't measured the ratio...It gets stuff clean with no more time or pressure rinsing than I used with the Xjet. Of course it doesn't draw at HP, nor does the Xjet. And why would i use the Xjet as an orifice to downstream with??? For shooting 30', I just use a size 40 zero degree tip. Works just fine. For most of my stuff, I just use a 2530 or 2540 tip for soaping. I got mine from Mel (PWKid here) at vero under pressure. www.verounderpressure.com Celeste got hers from someone else, likely a very similar or identical product.

Amen to that. :growl:

Actually, there's a post here on this board by Rod that shows statistical data to the contrary...Bleach lasts quite a bit longer than many folks think.