PressurePros

Mike, I forwarded your name and email to the person in question. Thanks for your help.

In all honesty, I would think about getting a seasonal job and using some of your income to advertise for next year.

Thanks Mike...check your mail when you get a chance.

I have just finished a latex paint removal project on a deck. The customer insisted on a semi trans sealer at no holds barred on the cost. The deck was 30'x18' so it was pretty close to the square footage you have. I told them $2200.00 realizing that I was going to have to do a fair amount of sanding. What a nightmare. Two days of stripping with nasty chemical, two days of sanding every rail, spindle and board(starburst rails,and two benches). The total time invested was 32 hours. Over $300 in chemicals, stain, and floor sander rental. Another $180 in labor, $30 in misc expenses. Wearing a chem suit and respirator was a riot in the 90 degree heat. I will never do that again, I relinquish my Jedi status. Next time its clean, prime and solid satin.

I need some guys, smaller operations looking for work in the Philadelphia region. You supply insured truck, 4 gpm+ hot water machine and your labor. You will be working directly with me on a couple of big projects. I will supply all chemicals, pumps, X-Jets, surface cleaners. Must be reliable with three commercial plus three residential job references. $400 per day/ ca$h for 8-10 hour day.

oops, email: pressurepros@mail.com or 610-662-4036

I was curious so I called a painting contractor in my area. Describing exactly what you have and what I would want done I asked him for a ball park figure...He said it would be over 20K to properly prep, paint and be able to guarantee the job.

This job would definitely be a nightmare. I would guess you have about 40 hours of prep work alone. Forget stripping it unless you wanna use methlyene chloride which will be both expensive and dangerous. Not too mention if this thing has anything alive near it. I did a fence that was 40 linear feet of shadow box fence(two sides) and by the time I cleaned with bleach/soap, treated with TSP, scraped off all flaking paint and sanded smooth, I lost my behind on the estimate.

I came acrossed this link. Plug in some numbers and see how close the estimator comes to what you would bid. I found it interesting that when you plug in powerwashing the deck for prep it adds very little to the estimate. http://www.contractors.com/cost_estimator/deck_porch_and_fence_painting.html

Brian, plugging in size you just mentioned (you have to choose scrape loose paint and powerwash as the labor in stripping/neutralizing is more intensive then just running a powerwasher over the surface) and then plugging in 52 linear feet of railing and four steps I got $577.00. I would get about $750 for this size deck.

wet it down thoroughly, then cover. The flowers will be able to withstand the heat as long as it is moist

I have mixed oxallic so concentrated it crystallizes as soon as the water cools down and it has never turned concrete white before my eyes. IMO, that was muriatic acid

The generic bleach at Walmart, is that 7.5% SH? A place called Aquavita Pools out this way sells 12.5% for $12 per 5 gallon container.

By efficient do you mean fast? Pull up, use X-Jet to spray on bleach and soap, rinse, pack-up. I imagine three a day could get done in this manner.

What commands a higher price for for a housewash? Much of it is in the customer service and professionalism of the contractor. Good refferals and customer satisfaction also play a role, as does insurance, training, schooling and experience. I have been asked what my process to clean is. I will outline it and do not infer in any way that what others do is wrong. Nothing I do is revelational or will set this industry on its ears. In fact, what I don't know about this business could probably fill a set of encyclopedias. This example is 3500 sq foot house, 3 stories, gables, a ton of windows, expensive shrubbery 4 levels deep. On this house the chimney is badly soiled and covered in stucco. The house also has a stone front that is milky white from efflorescence and siding with rusty nail streaking. I outlined the sales process in the thread on residential pricing. A typical cleaning goes like this. We arrive at the customer's house and helper begins setup. Before photos are taken. I meet with the customer and re-outline what we are going to be doing. I walk the perimeter with the customer and remove all screens and make sure windows are sealed tight. I recheck the integrity of the siding and look for cracks where water can enter the property. Landscaping is covered as opposed to merely wetting down. I have had a couple times where on 90 degree days with no rain for the last two weeks that plants have browned or spotted from the bleach concentration. Diversionary berms and reclaimation equipment are setup if neccessary (in this case they are). The first thing tackled is that chimney. Strap on the saftey gear and climb the ladder with the pumpup sprayer . A hotter chemical application and a bit of pressure are used to bring it back to a nice bright beige. Yes, I do use an X-Jet for chemical application but rarely wide open. The bottom half of the house gets application of house cleaning solution which in my case includes surfactant, chlorine, and mild caustic. An extension wand with the close range hardware in place is then used to apply chemicals to top of house. I always apply chemical straight on (perpindicular to siding) as I have had nightmare rinsing situations where cleaner emulsified what was under siding and ran for hours after cleaning. Chemical is applied to two sides of house. While dwelling, an aluminum brightener is applied to screens and they are cleaned. Meanwhile assistant is scrubbing gutters and window casements. Yes I use special chemical on the gutters and yes, they always require a degree of agitation by brush. After the house is thoroughly rinsed (in the same manner as chemical application except with a large nozzle) the first stage is then neutralized with oxallic acid to remove the rust stains. On this particular house I use Aldon's efflorescence treatment on the stone front. I give the artillery fungus on the back wall my best effort and it comes off about 25%. The heat is turned up, hoses are re-routed to make sure they aren't on the grass and the small front porch and walkway I threw in for no charge are cleaned. While my helper is rinsing the walkway and cleaning any residual chemical from the driveway, I am visually inspecting the property for runs, drips or errors. Total time thus far, 5 hours at a pleasant pace. More pictures, more chit chat with homeowner and now he decides he does want the driveway and pool area cleaned. ( I tried to convince him this was the way to go when I sold the job, but you know how homeowner's can be) Good thing I don't have to rush off to another job. The surface cleaner comes out because now we are talking 2000 square feet of concrete to clean and that driveway has some serious oil stains. Lots of effort, some Portland cement and it looks new again. Owner cannot stop shaking my hand and commenting. His house hasn't looked like this since the 70's when it was built he keeps telling me. He tips me a hundred and thanks me for my attention to detail. Contractor's just don't give that old school effort anymore he tells me. Please feel free to give my name to anyone as a reference, do you have any business cards I can pass out at work? We part as friends, both smiling and I pat the check in my pocket and wish every day was one like this.

House cleaning was 780. I only charged him a hundred for the concrete work because we were already there. With tip I walked away with almost a grand. Pull up time to leaving about eight and a half hours. Just a note, when I leave a residential property, every window is gleaming, there is not a a leaf or piece of debris on the driveway, all mulch is strightened and where it should be, gutters are free flowing and everything I moved or removed is put back. By the time we get to reeling the hoses the house has dried enough that I can also be sure there will be no runs.

Well stated, Beth. Rick, I made a separate post on my house wash process. I'm sure you guys follow similar paths to cleaning. But no way could I do what I do, with the attention to detail, in under three hours. I completely understand the market down there is a rough one. Lowballing is not just matching your market strategically on price, its selling solely based on it, with derogatory terms used against other contractors leading the customer to believe everyone else is a ripoff.

Like I said, I don't want to hijack a thread with back and forth stuff (but its probably going to happen). Mike and I see things differently. He prefers the higher paced, higher volume way of doing things. There is a place in the market for him. To me, a "low baller" does exactly what he described. Mike Williamson: "For example...A recent customer was happy with the price he paid for his last roof cleaning...over $400.00...Until he found out that I'd do it for $175.00...." I can see how some would take the term LB'er as meaning a complete buffoon with no experience or insurance or what have you. That is NOT my definition. To me, a lowballer sells his jobs solely on price, then will bash other contractors that charge more creating a price driven market. I have read enough of Mike's posts to realize he does business on the up and up and knows what he is talking about. I do not question the way he cleans houses, like I merely mentioned on the other board, I don't know if it is the be all/end all of cleaning styles. If any of you have followed the link from Steve's board, Mike comes nothing short of calling me unscrupulous and I found it highly offensive when he has no idea how I conduct business. My point still remains.. who is qualified to determine what a good rate actually is? Is paying $250/hr for an attorney a good rate, or is $100, or is $500? A businessperson charges what the market will bear and delivers quality and value for the customer's money. Alan, you are completely right in that we live in different markets. Once again if you follow that other link, you will see that was the point of my first post there. I now regret even replying. Let me ask you guys this.. I obviously have tested my market with higher pricing tiers and have been successful. If I were to come in an assess your business and told you I could double your profit margin without increasing your workload, why would you be opposed to that?

Dale, I have no trouble with the way you were doing things. Please take into consideration I appreciated you having me out. I never bashed the method of cleaning, I said the X-Jet has its place. As far as Mike goes, I complimented him in one post and he continued to bash me with his arguementative rhetoric. He is a low baller. They're out there. He wants to bust his behind running from house to house grabbing 150 here and 150 there, thats his choice. You know what? I could cut my prices to the bone, work three times as hard, yield the same money and the next guy who is better capitalized could shut off my lights. Dale I will email you the last ten proposals with photocopies of the checks if it makes you understand the money is out there. Mike, why is this a bad thing? A lady called me as a last resort because she didn't want to spend the $2800 for an exterior painting. I charged her $720.00 and the house looked incredible. She is selling the house as is now and will have no trouble getting more money because of the curb appeal the property has. If that isn't REAL value, I don't know what is. What great spirit has come down and given you the wisdom of what prices we are supposed to charge?????? This is the last time I will respond to you, as it is unfair to hijack the board.

I apologize for turning this into a novel but this is where I got into trouble on another board and I want to make myself clear. I think most house washers undercharge. Many times I have had homeowners cancel painters after seeing what can be done. (saving them hundred to sometimes thousands of dollars) I just eyeball the house because there are too many factors above and beyond sq ft pricing. I go $90 to $220 per side. $90= minimal shrubbery, relatively easy access, newer siding, accessible gutters, no variable roof heights, small to medium sq footage $220= Difficult landscaping/grade, older or oxidized siding, more than 5 windows, very dirty gutters, 900+ sq ft Most houses fall in betwen and my average housewash in June came in at about $530. I did 22 of them without a single complaint and got tipped on about half of them. I include a hot water washing of the front stoop or walkway and as mentioned the exteriors of the gutters are included. I also downrinse the gutters to remove any debris. Anything else (roof cleaning, driveways, decks, awnings, stain removal) is extra. Selling jobs with higher margin is easier if you approach it completely professionally. When I bid a job it is in nice slacks, clean shirt and I am showered and shaved. I have a book of completed job photos and a list of references I give the homeowner. Time is spent explaining my water diversion/recovery process, the care that will be given to often very expensive landscaping, the reactions of my chemicals to wildlife and the environment, impact on neighbors homes etc. I also carry a few proposals from painters and siding contractors. The proposal is imprinted on quality paper using a good printer and includes my logo and an extremely detailed process. It is then mailed or hand delivered to customer the next day. I prefer the hand delivery because it gives you another opportunity to get in front of the customer and sell. Before and After pictures are always taken and when the job is completed I prepare a little report with the pictures from their project. (It makes them feel a part of something and gives them something to brag about to neighbors) On the last page of the report I type a personalized letter thanking them for the business. In this letter I also tell them they have been added to our database and next year will recive a call about maintenance. Finally, I offer them $35 for any referral they can give me that turns into completed work. This is not rocket science. On another board, I was more or less accused of ripping people off with my pricing. I responded to that poorly and said a few things I wish I could retract. The bottom line is, does the customer believe he got a good value for his money. If he does than the actual number you charged him is irrelevant. We are not talking a commodity product here. Every housewasher/contractor is not created equally. My business mentor, now a professor at Wharton, once told me..underpromise and overdeliver and you will never have an unhappy customer. In closing, this is my feeling. If I were to see a guy pull up, rush around, spray this and that on my house, and leave in an hour and a half I would feel I recieved very little value for my money (again regardless of the price) I prefer to work at a comfortable pace, go over every detail to a "T" and make the homeowner smile. I do four restaurants, four housewashes and one deck a week. I make extensive use of helpers. I feel any greater physical or chronological expenditure than this the money would not be worth it. I didn't leave a good paying marketing job with benefits to run around busting hump netting $35 an hour. I know this didn't really answer your question, Eric. I needed to get that off my chest. Ok, diatribe over. Go hug the wife and kids.

Hey Steve, I do prefer cash and if a customer seems "cool" then I will give him $50 off if he pays that way. I have no problem asking a customer to write it out to me (residential only) My bank will cash a check made out to my business name. I own the business and the bank knows me, so why wouldn't they is my question. I guess it depends upon the banks policy.

Laughing my ass off over here.... Here is what I got last week from an Asian homeowner who also owns 12 very succesful asian restaurants and drives a $110,000.00 Porsche.. "You give discount I pay cash" I just smiled and asked him what discount I get on a quart of pork fried rice when I pay cash. He smiled and we moved on.

Steve, for 800 squares including the railings, no staining just stripping then applying acid.. I would expect $700-900 depending upon how much of that is railing. Railings are what eat your time and chemical. Believe it or not I have never just stripped a deck. I do the whole nine yards. I carry photos of decks I have seen where people stained wet decks, unstripped decks with remaining sealant intact, or, have stained over tannin bleed with no prep. These decks are blotchy, peeling messes. It takes about .01 seconds for them to let me do the finishing as well. I realize your situation is different but allow me to ask you a question. Why is your father going to do the staining? Is he your partner or are you just skeptical of doing the process yourself? As a side note, I have walked away from "cleaning" jobs. People will tell you they just want a cleaning when in treality they are planning on refinishing. Your call back comes in about two months when the Thompson's WS is breaking down all over the place. You "cleaned" it so it must be your fault.

Hey Tony C. Is that including the 60 linear feet of railing and the four steps leading to the yard? If it is then you too are getting about $.87 a square to strip and stain. My mother just had a small table (4' diamater lets call it 16 sf) stripped and refinished. Nothing fancy, stripped, stained diff color, couple coats of urethane. The cost? $90 and she had to bring it to them. It probably went into some type of tank and the finish was sprayed on. Five dollars plus a square foot and they didn't have to lug around hoses, mask anything off or get burned by stripper. And my time is worth 1/5 of what his is? No way. Market or not, my prices are my prices. I am backlogged on decks until early sept. My question to you, Tony.. How long would it take you to do the size of deck mentioned above? Arrive, setup washer. Take furniture off deck Its 90 and sunny so spraying the whole deck at once including railing is not feasible That landscaping that covers every inch of the perimeter looks expensive (plastic?) There are popped nails on every other board Customer wants furniture back on deck after stripping Its a cedar one and its fuzzy as hell. Needs a decent amount of deburring Take off furniture, hot tub cover etc again House is stucco and the way its built you'd have to mask half of it in plastic to spray With the above variables, 9 hours (with one employee) into this project would be a fair estimate. $500 minus $75 for stain, minus $40 chemicals, minus $90 for your guy, minus say another $40 for insurance, taxes, gas, wear and tear, advertising, etc. Now we have $255/8 = $31 I'll concede, thats not a bad rate if you never went to college and you don't have a union job. For me its just wouldn't be enough for the headaches that go with owning and maintaining a business.

You're not high. How big is the deck? I don't even bother with "cleaning and brightening". If you are restaining a deck you probably should strip it to bare wood anyway. If a deck is not in need of restaining then the customer doesn't need a contractor. Some Cabot's Problem solver, a brush and a garden hose are all they need. Of course, I am happy to do it if the customer is willing to pay for my time. To your original question.. From start to finish I charge $1.60 a square foot plus $3 a linear foot of railing,plus $10 per step, plus the price of stain. So on a 20x20 square deck I will come in at about $950. To get the bid I might round down to $895.00. It would take me about 7-9 hours of labor for the whole project including stripping every part of the deck (underrails and support structure), Sanding all the handrails (and floor if need be), fixing popped nails, and hand rubbing stain. I know there are guys that can do this in probably 2/3 of the time...great! they make more per hour...If they lower their rates because their expertise has improved they are just bad businessmen IMHO. Take out the staining your number of $.70 is a little low but in the ballpark. Best of luck to you, Steve..hope all works out for you. (sorry about the diatribe, rough day)