PressurePros

Now thats a housewash. Remember Tim.. next rig is being built for me right? ;-)

The way I would look at is this. If agreed upon terms (especially those involving my payment) are not honored, all bets are off. I can understand you may be having a moral dilemma from an ethics standpoint and it is a fine line. Can you elaborate a bit more or are the details something you don't want in a public forum?

I use both in my housewash mix (along with some other goodies)

For the basics: http://www.cleaning101.com/house/fact/houseclean5.html Little more advanced http://www.chemistry.co.nz/deterg_inorganic.htm Very good reading on surfactants: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfactants

Let me preface by saying, I hate cedar. Rick Petry, you can have all of my cedar decks. My question to the wood pros that have been doing decks for awhile. When do you call it quits when applying sealer? Scenario: 25 year old cedar porch.. neglected.. strip solid.. replace some boards.. sand. Applied one coat of sealer and let soak in (this was hand brushed board by board as per customer request). After deck was complete, I had guys go back and brush in a second coat. First one was heavy, second was lighter but still heavy enough to have the entire deck wet looking when we drove away. Customer calls and is generally happy but of course is wondering why the knots are showing much lighter. There is definitely a point of diminishing return where any more coats are just going to form a film. How do you handle the issue? What do you say to the customer

LOL.. you *******!

I'm doing a roof job two years ago and I back the truck up to the house and raise the lift and up I go. I wash the roof not remembering I am low on gas. I do my thing and when I go to climb back in the bucket and lower to the ground I realize the truck is off. For some reason if the truck isn't running, neither is the lift. I had to call the homeowner (she was in the house and about 70 years old) by cell phone and ask her to fill my tank up with some gas. Really kills the old 'I'm a professional and I know what I am doing' image.

Todd, nice recovery! I like the new line.

Rick, I am contending Jim's point and trying to make people (new guys especially) understand some theory behind sealer. I am not excited, nervous, chain smoking or banging my head against the wall. I enjoy debate and there is much to be learned from it. I hope to take away some information from this post that I didn't know previously. In print stuff sounds harsh, especially if you are just trying to contend facts. I imagine this will go back and forth for a bit with some feelings hurt and some egos flaring. Its better than reading the same old.. 'newbie here, what pressure washer should I buy' stuff.

Jon you can do better. I don't really have many points to contend. "blanket assumption" Read the line again. For sealer longevity you need higher pigmentation content. Thats not a fact? I also mentioned something about diminishing return (aesthetically speaking you obviously don't want an overly opaque sealer but it would stil hold true that an opaque sealer would offer longer life). Almost every customer would love to have a sealer that is a slight tint beyond the wood's natural appearance. They just don't last. You also have to apply twice as much READY SEAL (happy?) to get even coverage. The 75/sf and two different applications has been mentioned by numerous contractors, not just yourself. I have also experienced the same coverage rate with it. Everything declines, yes. Weak arguement. The rate at which it declines is exactly what is in question. Though you glided over that issue as an aside. Nice try, Fife. Contrary to your cynical outlook, the fact that I sell Baker's to homeowner's has no bearing in this entire arguement. If it did, I'd be smarter to keep my mouth shut because I would have, by your definition of Baker's, disparaged my own product line. Baker's does cure by the way. Again, Russell can fight his own arguements. If some people like the products and speak of them why would that bother you? I made much more money this year using WTW when it was appropriate. Other contractors may like the idea of making money when it gets rainy so we share our experiences. Don't let it bother you so much. You know I love ya, Jon, but you didn't think I was gonna take this one sitting down did ya?

If it is not peeling wash it with EFC-38 (it has the right ingredients for paint prep). Use an alkyd primer. Be prepared to topcoat with two coats of latex solid for full coverage. You aren't doing this guy any favors and risk ruining your reputation with him if you fudge up the job. He will respect you more if you pass it on like Neil suggested.

It definitely varies dramatically for me when it comes to house washing versus deck resto. I don't feel comfortable giving you my percentages here but will discuss them with you via phone

One note about your byline. Be careful. "Take a bite out of crime" is trademarked by the National Crime Prevention Council. Since there are so many local law enforcement agencies well familiar with the slogan, you could encounter some problems in the future. Changing one letter in a trademarked phrase is not enough to consider it unique.

I know a lady in your neck of the woods you can call.... Yo Celeste.. where ya at?

I don't want to disparage any product or stand in one camp or the other. I agree with James. The right tool for the job. The technical explaination for Ready Seal being 95% solids may be plausible by definition. The problem is, like knowing any one single stat and basing an opinion on it, you can formulate (or perpetuate) misconception. More important (to me) is not the definition of a solid versus a VOC or a skewed content percentage, its what the remaining "solids" do to protect the wood. Transoxide pigmentation is good, definitely preferable for UV protection over clay pigmentation. The real question is what percentage of the remaining solids is represented by the pigmentation. That is where using an all assumpive definition of the solids content in a non drying oil can be equally skewed to make it sound ineffective. If we agree that pigmentation is important for sealer longevity then it would stand to reason that higher concentrations of pigmentation (to a point of diminishing return) is preferable. Yes? Well if you have two single gallons of sealer with 5% pigmentation (based on volume) and one gallon is non drying oil and 95% non VOC and the other is 65% non VOC then your final ratio of pigmentation to solid becomes: non drying oil: 1:19 (one part pigment to 19 parts solids) other product: 1:13 (one part pigment to 13 parts solid) Looking at those numbers it looks like the lower percentage solids sealer is going to provide more UV protection per gallon. Am I missing something. Sort of "contradicts" your recommndation of using a higher solid content sealer to solve the original issue I asked about in this post, Jim. The non drying, 95% solids product has lousy one coat coverage. Will anyone argue that? Jon, any product that cures is a film former from Sikkens SRD to TWP to Wood Tux to 99% of what's out there. Its just a matter of where that film forms (how deep in the wood). I could care less if someone likes Wood Tux, hates it or otherwise. I don't sell it, I don't use it exclusively but I will tell you, it is not a film forming sealer like a solid stain. There seems to be this misconception and its an ill gotten one based upon rhetoric. Trust me... it is not what you are thinking it is. If you insist it is, Jon, then you have posted many pictures of film forming sealers used on your projects. Let's go back to another reason that I have a problem with a product claiming it has 95% solids and leading people to believe it is some how superior.. My question is..what remains to protect the wood? The remaining 95% solids in a non drying oil has nothing to lock pigmentation or fungicide in place. It begins its degradation from day one. Plotted on a chart its slope to failure is rapid as all the stuff that makes a sealer a good product (water repellency, UV protection and mold growth inhibitors) begins almost immediately leaching out. The final factor in claiming how great a non drying oil is cost. They are way too expensive. I am not sure what type of business others run but using a product that offers coverage at 75 s/f per gallon and needs to be applied twice in a week to look even and really protect the wood would put me out of the deck restoration business. I am not against parafinnic products. I think the moisturizing effects are very beneficial to dried out wood. I am just a little irked at the condescension of some that have a few tidbits of knowlege and use it to disparage the opinions or products of others. We all use what we like. But we should also be open minded and teachable. Jim, I have nothing against you but you should reread some of your posts before you click send. Many times you crack me up and I love reading your posts. Other times I'm not sure how to take you.

James before you start making assumptions, let me make a post and then you can help me bring me up to your level of wisdom.

I'll explain to you why the logic is twisted in believing that. I am too tired to put together a coherent post right now. If you believe that RS is 95% solids compared to products that actually use high quality materials with real solids content I will sell you a $100 amplifier that puts out a thousand watts.

You don't honestly believe that marketing crap about RS having 90% solids do you Jim? Thats a manipulation of definition.

If the money were right, you'd be surprised what I am capable of. Even keeping quiet.

A much better choice would have been to use EFC-38. It is not a straight percarb but has some bite to aid in stripping duties. Thompson's is more of a wax than an acrylic but can still be a pain to remove if fresh. I don't mean to preach to you as I know this is not the purpose of your post. Just some information to make your life easier next tiem around. As always, the right tools for the job. Get in the habit of perfomring test spots before you bid. If the spots cannot be removed via water and paper towels as Russell sugested first ascertain that you aren't dealing with self cleaning glass. When i encounter problems like this I use a microabrasive made for buffing glass. If you get into wood restoration seriously you will probably be picking up a 7" variable buffer. I use this to polish the glass and remove any dried chemicals.

Jon, would I be your silent partner?

I honestly believe I could have stayed there for three more hours applying sealer to those knots. Shane the sealer is Wood Rich and it definitely dives much deper than Wood Tux. Two coats of wood tux wet would have left that thing shinier than a new Porsche. Coverage rate after second coat was about 120 s/f per gallon.

Pictures and a more detailed description would help. Chlorine and water.. what percentage of sodium hypochlorite? What method of application? What were you washing and what was it made of (painted aluminum, masonite, wood etc)

Jon I'm reading your post and I'm about to do a search on "unselling" I thought maybe there was new sales technique I wasn't aware of. (thats hat starts happening when you are scanning posts at ten pm) Neil, too funny man. Yeah I was in a bit of a hurry. If I thought you honestly incapable of putting together an adequate bid I would have evaluated the pictures and gave you my thoughts but I know you will do fine. That looks like a potential winner in the ESI challenge. I keep hearing that people in the south don't appreciate deck maintenance. Yet based upon my sales for RAD and the pictures posted by you, Shane, Celeste and others I know that is untrue.

That is going to be too stunning for words if you do it right. Sh*tcan the idea of priming and painting the steps though. I can see no advantage to playing designer and committing these people to use solid stain on those steps for the remainder of the deck life. When I get a thousand decks under my belt I would be happy to offer advice on pricing ;-)