sturgisjr

Hello there... its been a long time since I posted on here. I need some advice and feedback on what to do with a deck I just completed. This was a Mahogany deck that had black spots all over and had tung oil applied to it previously. It was just one year and the deck looked awful. I got a call to restore it and it came out great. I used Aussie Timber Oil in Amberwood and it looked awesome. The customer loved it too. The problem: Somehow wet spots appeared on the deck... I dont know if it was a brief thundershower or if they spilled something on it. Whatever the reason, I was called back and they asked me to fix it. So I lightly sanded the spots out and they wanted me to put down a second coat. I told them that only one coat was recommended for this type of sealer but they insisted. I did that. Deck looks wonderful. Problem #2: The stain is still tacky. This was completed 2 weeks ago. It has also been extremely humid and we have been having a lot of thunderstorms here and there. Between the rain and the humidity, do you think it is just taking a long time to dry? Will it dry when the humidity and rain finally let up? What will happen if it stays the way it is now? Will it peel, fade quickly? Is there anything I can do to help with the tackiness? I was thinking to brush over the deck something like Mineral Spirits but I don't know if that will work. Any advice on what to do to help with the stickiness will be appreciated. Thanks!

Hello all... I NEED HELP!! I have a situation where I stained a customers deck yesterday and ran out of the WoodTux Western Cedar. I was so sure I would have enough but I still have the steps to do and to do a thin 2nd layer to even it all out since it was a really hot day and the sealer soaked right in. I need about 2 to 2.5 gallons of this and would appreciate anyone helping me out. I told customer to give me a week. Thanks!!

I had no idea that they weren't going to make it anymore. I wasn't aware that they are never going to make it again? Is this true? Or is it just this year? This was why I was hoping someone had some old stain laying around that I could use. I was under the assumption that WoodTux was a great product that was pretty new and I didn't expect it to stop producing. I heard from someone else that TWP Redwood is a very close match in a pinch with the Western Cedar. It does look like I'm more with the Teak from Sikkens. Anybody know about TWPs compatibility with WoodTux? Customer thinks the boards are too light and wants another coat over it. Remember the picture was taken while still wet.

Here are some pictures... Before, After and with the WoodTux. The woodtux picture was taken while wet. I need to go over this surface with another coat which will probably turn out to be Sikkens SRD and on the can it says that one gallon covers 200-400 sq.ft. The steps are not shown in the picture but they are stripped and bare like the middle picture. *Some of you may recall the thread I posted on here where I was saying this woman was the most unfriendly we have encountered and was the one who was on the phone when we got there and it was pouring rain out while we had our 2 year old daughter with us. This is THE deck and she is very pleased with the results and is very happy.* This is the thread... http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3781

Beth... Got your message and I appreciate it. The closest Sikkens Dealer here is 25 miles out of the way, but will be worth it in this situation. I'm curious, should we explain to the homeowner that we have to apply a different product and to explain how they are very similar as well as compatible? Im thinking that since it is just the bare steps I have to do and then a thin layer over the rest of the surface that the color difference (if any) will not be noticeable? The floor area is about 500 sq. ft. The Railings were done in a Cabots Oil Solid Stain. Since I know that the Sikkens SRD covers 200 - 400 sq. ft. per gallon, how many gallons (1 or 2) do you think I need to finish my 500 Sq. ft area (the steps and a thin layer over the rest of the surface?) I've never used Sikkens and would like to know how much I would need. Meanwhile.. I am still waiting to hear if I can get lucky and someone has some old woodtux western cedar laying around. Thanks!

We are in the exact same situation with removing 4+ layers of white latex stain/paint. We ended up needing to sand smooth with 60 grit sand paper which seems to work well. We aren't able to remove ALL of it but good enough so that when a new stain is applied, it will be smooth and you wouldnt be able to tell that there were other stains previously applied. We have plans to start staining the end of this week and I would appreciate any feedback as to which stain to use. I use Cabot's regularly, but only the Oil decking stains (semi-solid, intermixed to semi-transparent, and solid color). The Customer is asking for White, even on the floors (thank goodness!) and because not ALL the latex will come off, I wondered what my options and solutions would be. I am aware that an oil can not be applied over latex, even if there is 40% of it left? Or can I still use an oil? I know they have an Acrylic-based solid decking stain, but I read somewhere you should apply an oil base first? If there is something else I can use that will be durable and can be applied over 40% leftover latex, please do let us know. We will appreciate it very much and I am sure others would too. Thanks!

I have a job I am starting the end of this month... its a white latex sealed deck that needs to be stripped and I planned on using F-18 or HD-80 on it. This deck hangs slightly over the Lake and I am nervous about getting paint and chemicals in there. Does anyone have an idea on how to prevent this from happening? Is there another Chemical/stripping agent I can use that is safe? It will be sealed with Cabots Ultra White Solid Oil Decking Stain. IS there a different route I should take? The Customer wants the old paint off before a new application. It looks really bad, peeling all over and you can tell that the previous owners of this house (these customers Im working with are the new owners) recoated without doing any prep work. Advice, suggestions, ideas??? Although I want to avoid it, I am prepared for a little extra time and work. I seem to be getting all the tough jobs! Thanks!

Went and did what we said we would. We enclosed everything with tarp and plastic and created a runoff away from the Lake. It took 2 hours to set up this part of the job. Brian got started and was doing real well. Because we didn't have F-18 or HD-80 due to delay on arrival time, he used TimberStrip Pro. The product worked really great and he was on a roll. THEN...unexpectedly...it got extremely windy! (Forecast called for a beautiful and calm day in the high 70's.) WHAT A MESS!!! The Tarp somehow got loose and this was while he was pressure washing and it got into the Lake and there was a white cloud all over in there. Of course... he panicked and paged me to come over and help. I showed up and was terribly shocked and had to call my family to see if they were available to help. Lucky for us, they were and we were able to clean up the entire mess. We had to go into the Lake and pick up all the long paint strips and we had to rake and vaccuum the yard. The smaller paint chips were able to settle to the bottom under the stones. The whole clean-up took all of us 3 hours!! It was unbeleivable and we tried to get most of it cleaned up before the homeowners got home from work. They showed up and we had to explain what happened. They were okay with it, I guess cuz they didnt see the original mess. Anyway... now you would think there was never a mess... we cleaned it up that good and there is no longer a white cloud in the Lake. (You should leave property the same as it was before you start a job, Right?) This is the first time we have had a problem like this and never again! Please tell me that one of you had nightmares like this. Is there a thread on nightmare projects? We should start one... I'd like to hear and how you resolved those problems. Well... after this incident, we have decided that stripping and pressure washing is a big no-no for this project and need opinions ASAP on what to do next. We obviously will sand the whole thing smooth. We may rent out a floor sander for the deck floors and wondered which one would be better... a drum or orbital? 60 grit good? They want a white stain (Thank goodness for that!!) and wondered what you all would recommend for this project. Some say Cabots and others say Deckscapes but which one would specifically work best in our situation?? If we use Cabots Acrylic, do we have to coat with an oil primer first? What if we dont get enough off the wood? We have already invested way too much time on this project and would like something that will coat well with no more than 2 coats. PLEASE HELP!!!

We have been having situations where overspray from the pressure washer along with the chemicals would go on cars and other peoples homes. Most of the homes we are doing are all close, very close there is like maybe 5 to 10 feet between homes. How do you prevent that from happening, what do you do?Should we go over to the neighbors before we start a job to inform them of what may happen? And if there are any problems to have them call? As for stain, we never spray on. Its all done by hand using brush, roller or stain pads.

Has anyone heard of these products? Anyone used them? What do you all think?

I just sent an e-mail to my customer on an option we thought of that we feel is the best solution. First... I can tell you that my husband went and did another test patch yesterday and he was able to get all 4 layers of Latex 98% off with a dwell time of 2 1/2 hours. That isnt too bad. Pretty impressed too. Worked way much better than the F-18 test. Anyway... we decided that we would use the HD-80 on the parts away from the lake and on the floors. The spindles on the outside that overhang the lake will only be sanded smooth. If we did the spindles and railings with HD-80...even with protection, we run a great risk of getting runoff in the lake. Because it is so close to the lake, if the HD-80 gets in the ground and settles...it could run off in there during a heavy rain and we noticed that on the walls they have (in the lake) what seem to be drainage pipes? We decided no-no on the HD-80. All the verticals will be recoated with a Latex stain. Since the floor is peeling really bad anyway, the HD-80 will work on that better and then after renting a floor sander, we could put down a solid oil decking stain. We are trying to talk the homeowner into a semi-transparent to offer a 2-tone. That would look nice wouldn't it? We did offer to them the use of a biodegradable stripper like Dorado 3130 through Sunbrite and RemovALL 310, but I dont think the homeowners will want to pay an additional $1200 to $2000 for it. Besides I think that the option we recommend is the most reasonable considering the circumstances. I will let you know what they decided on and if we still have the job, we will definitely post the after pics! Thanks for all your responses.

Thanks for your replies. I had one job in which the house and deck were up higher than the one below about 5 feet and the neighbor called because she was concerned about the paint chips that were on her shrubs, deck (it needs a strip job!) and overspray on her windows and house. This call was placed a week after I was done. I never had the chance to talk with her and I never got her phone number. So I went over there everyday for a week to see if we could set up a date of when I can go over and clean up my mess. She was never home. I even had a note stuck in her door and it was still there today when I went back to my job today to stain. I did talk with my customer to see if he knew her name and number. Unfortunately, they live downstate and come up occasionally to visit their son in the area and that was all he knew of his neighbor. That would explain the delay in the complaint and why the letter was still stuck in the door. So I decided to just go ahead and clean up my mess. It was very minor, but would hate for her to come back and see that it was not taken care of. That would have been a door for legal action to take place. Besides, she may be a potential customer in the future.

Warning: Venting happens here... I'm annoyed. A month ago, we went to perform an estimate. She called and asked that we be there at 10:00am sharp. We showed up...it was pouring rain out. We brought our 2 year old daughter with us (it was a Saturday and didnt have anyone to watch her). We went to the door, she was on the phone, spoke with us through the storm door and told us to just look around and give her an estimate. Most customers would have invited us into their home to talk things over. (ESPECIALLY when raining as hard as it was!) I was irritated because we had our daughter but I was so glad that we had our HUGE golf style umbrella. We looked around and it looked like one thin layer of latex stain, looks easy enough to strip. But, thats beside the point. We went back to her front door and again, she was on the phone and again, talked with us through the storm door. You all know how important it is to talk with a customer and get information first before we can give an accurate estimate. Well... it appeared she was getting really irritated and got right to the point of just giving her the estimate but we managed to get her to go downstairs and show us the can of the present sealer. When asking her how many coats were put on, she finally said... " I am on the phone and its a long distance call" and motioned that we give her the estimate and leave. Okay.. we gave her the estimate based on what we saw and knew. (Im thinking, why did she demand we be on time and then she decides to be on the phone the whole time. Thats really rude, don'tcha think?) NOW.... She called 2 weeks ago (didn't think we would ever hear from her again) wanting more information (oh, like we werent trying to do the same at the first visit.) She also asked for references of some of the jobs we did that were nearby that she could call and look at. We gave her 4 references, all within 1 to 2 miles from her. Again, we waited. She called last week and wanted us to meet with her again to go over some details. She was extremely impressed with the references. This appointment occured today. Before we went to the appointment, we made out a list of things to go over. The first thing was to explain that we may not get ALL of the stain off. We always tell our customers that when they have a solid stain applied on their deck and that we suggest a solid re-stain. She wanted a semi-transparent, and we said okay, but it would bring the price up about 25 cents per sq.ft. SHE HAD A FIT! We brought the price up to cover any labor intensive sanding that we may encounter. (This cost will be waived if the sanding is not neccessary.) She looked at the estimate sheet and on there we have checkboxes of what will need to be performed. One of the boxes was checked and that was the "Detailing; sanding/defurring, hammering down any nail heads or screws" box. She then decided to tell us "I want you to know what kind of person I am...you gave me an estimate at a set cost and I expect you to do all the work you have checked off on the estimate sheet in the price you gave me. This estimate was given to me a month ago and now you want to charge 25 cents extra?" We tried explaining to her that that kind of sanding/defurring was detail work and will happen if any fuzzies show up. She saw it as sanding as a complete REMOVAL of the product if the stripper was not effective. I don't think she got it. Anyway... we told her we will stick with a solid restain and if we are lucky and the stripper takes off EVERYTHING (its only one layer of Sherwin Williams Latex Solid Stain) then we can consider doing a semi-transparent for the price we gave her. She was okay with that. The thing that bothered me was.... she really took control of the whole thing. We have never had a problem with other customers. This was the first time and she is not your average human being. She has some sort of weirdness in her that really makes you tense. Anyway... the stain is peeling bad. It was applied in 2002 by a guy who owed her laundering money. He couldnt pay back or something so they made a deal that he would clean her house and deck. What was on it before was a clear coat and it was grey, ugly and dirty. She said he took it all off to bare wood and applied the Stain in November. It peeled when it was not even a year yet. When we told her we may not be able to remove it all, she asked if we used a pressure cleaner. When we said yes, she laughed and said, it'll come off and told us about her story with the other guy who did it. It seemed like it was going in circles and she wants us to do it and do whatever it takes to get it ALL off....BUT... she wont pay the extra if I encounter labor intensive sanding if she is set on the semi-transparent even though she said she is fine with the Solid Re-stain. She was ready to sign contracts and give us the deposit, but we told her we wanted to talk about it more first and do a test patch. I am sure it will come off with HD-80 or F-18 with no problem since it is only one layer, but becasue of the kind of person she is.... well... We are not sure if we want to commit on this job. Laughter was what we got when we told her what we wanted to do. "It will come off!! *laughing*" As professionals, I beleive we should make sure before making any commitment especially with someone who is picky and I don't care if she is like "I told you so" when my husband has done the test patch. Has anyone ever had a customer like that? There is more to the story but this is basically what happened. How do you handle customers who are like that? Should we go ahead and do the job or turn it down? I know we can choose our customers. We used the we'll talk about it and do the test patch excuse to buy more time. This is one person who really can cause tension miles away. Even though she has the tendency to change her mind, we should be safe writing on the invoice/contract our agreement and she can't change that right? And one last thing.... HD-80 or F-18 WILL take this thin layer off right? She really got to me. My husband is okay, but I'm not. Thanks for letting me vent. Sturgisjr's wife

Yeah.. they are all Lakefront homes and it gets more crowded each year. The people with money are buying 2 to 3 small/meduim sized homes to demolish and have BIGGER homes built. I cannot beleive how Big these homes get. As for tarp between the homes... that could work 1/2 of the time. But the other 1/2... the Decks are like on the 3rd floor overlooking the lake. You wouldnt think that they had a home that high just by looking at it roadside.

Yes... that is what I meant... A semi-transparent stain. Husband went and did a test patch, but before he went, we had a call made to her and left a message. We explained that if the stain comes off perfectly, then he will accept the job and that if it looks like sanding is going to have to happen, then he has no choice but to decline the job cuz she won't pay extra for the sanding. Well.. he went there and did the test patch. It took one hour and the HD-80 worked faster than f-18 on the spindles but on the floor, the F-18 worked better. Strange? Before he did the test patches, he lady went up to him and said... "GET it ALL off!!... Sand if you need to and I will pay the extra 25 cents per sq. ft." She wants an oil put on and a semi-transparent. I guess she went around asking other people for their opinion and realized that we were not playing around with her. She heard more than once that a semi-transparent was the way to go and that is what she wants. After the test patches were done we noticed there is going to be a bit of sanding so that a semi can be put on. We will recommend to her to go with a 2-tone, that way my husband wouldnt have to intensively sand the railings and spindles. Its much easier to do the floor only. I will let you know how it goes.

Interesting thought. Didn't even think of it that way. Well.. today... my husband was out signing contracts with another customer today and when he left, he saw that lady pass him at the intersection. He ended up following her and then she pulled over to the side of the road and flagged him down. He pulled over to see what was up. She wanted to know if he could go to her house and do the test patch and that she would have the water pump turned on. (she couldn't call??) Anyway...I guess he is going over there around 5:00 to do the test patch. He will take the job if the HD-80 takes it off with no problems. He will decline if it looks like sanding is going to happen. What do you think of that? Also.. if he takes the job... this is what will be on the invoice/contract. Please tell me if there is anything I should add. Strip off Old Sherwin Williams Latex Solid Stain. Brighten and neutralize stripping agent. Sand/Defurr any raised grain if present and hammer down raised nails if any. **THIS IS NOT STAIN REMOVAL TYPE OF SANDING IN EVENT STRIPPER FAILS. Solid Stain with Cabots __(Color of choice)___ *POSTS, downstairs railings and balcony are not included in this contract and will not be done* If it ALL comes off, we can apply a Solid Color OIL Decking Stain right? And if it does not all come off, we would need to use a Solid Color LATEX Decking Stain.

Notice the different layers and colors of paint. I counted 3... possibly 4 layers and they peeled uf very easily. I was sitting there while an area was dwelling and starting peeling... they peeled in long strips and had a flexible feel to it. Didnt chip or break. It was soft.

We got some pictures taken today of the deck we are concerned about. Please look over them and offer all the suggestions and ideas as you can. I will go back tomorrow morning to try out the HD-80. I did a test patch today with the f-18 and was not pleased. I forgot to bring the HD-80 with me. If the HD-80 brings out the same result, is there another stripper out there I can use other than removall 310 or PeelAway 7 ? Has anyone tried the Cabots Wood Stripper? I plan on trying that while I do the HD-80. When using F-18, I mixed 4 oz. to one quart for testing purposes which would equal 16 oz per gallon. I had it dwell for an hour with more application every 15 minutes and agitating with a brush before re-application of the F-18. Should I let it dwell longer? The parts under the deck are still in good condition. I was thinking of just cleaning it and restaining with the same color. No need to strip those areas right? Now, with the pictures I have, what would you do to protect stripper and paint from getting into the lake. My idea as well as Ryan's are still in consideration.

I have used WoodTux and my customers and myself are in Awe with its durability and Color Retention. From what I hear, Ready Seal is just as good. I am offering Ready Seal to my customers this year. Although there are so many high praises on the WoodTux and ReadySeal, I was wondering if anyone has tried or know about the SuperDeck Stains and how that compares with WoodTux and ReadySeal. I can get SuperDeck Locally and if it is as great as it sounds, I would like to add that to my list of stains that I offer. I also like the reliability of getting it local in cases when I need to get it at the last minute. You can check it out at www.superdeck.com I would very much appreciate responses on this. Thanks!

Thank you for your responses... eventhough there werent many responses, it was enough for me stop considering the product. I do know for a fact that 2 of my competitors use this product. Will check out TWP and Sikkens if I can get it locally. For the time being, Cabots is the only GOOD product I can get locally. Thanks again.

I checked up on the 1400 and the 7400 and I don't really see a difference unless I am missing something. I am aware that you say the colors ARE different between the 2 products. If you have the time, can you please look over these 2 PDFs and tell me what you think? http://www.cabotstains.com/pdf/tds/7400_tds.pdf http://www.cabotstains.com/pdf/tds/1400_tds.pdf On these pages, it explains about how to intermix with a 1400 or a 7400 Clear decking stain as well which is what I was asking about. AND... these decking stains are penetrating products right? Not Film-forming? I had a customer last year who used a Cabots clear solution redwood tinted product and it was flaking and peeling after 2 years. I stripped it and had it done in WoodTux's California Redwood. If it was peeling like that.. does that mean its a film forming product? I want to be sure that either the 1400 or the 7400 series Decking stains were not film forming. Thanks! I think I am getting there.

Just to be clear, I do not offer too many choices. At the time being, it is only WoodTux and Ready Seal for Semi-transparent stains and Cabots Solid Color Decking Stains. I have had a few cases, one of which I am facing now in which a customer wants to use a Cabots Semi-Trans and I am STILL trying to figure that out which is being discussed in another forum. I was just curious if SuperDeck, which has been around for a while was just as good as either Ready Seal or WoodTux. It has become somewhat of an inconvenience getting the RS and WT and I would like to try and find something that is just as good locally. That why I wanted to know on the durability and the color retention of Super Deck. Thanks for any responses especially from those with in depth expereince with this product.

Everett, At the place where I purchase Cabot Stains, they are not certified Cabots Dealers. In hopes of avoiding a phone call directly with Cabots....Can you tell me if I am correct in that the custom color decking stain (1400) is a semi-solid? And to acheive a semi-transparent look, I can mix equal parts of the semi-solid with a clear 1400 decking stain? You mentioned that the 1400 is the older series and it is now 7400. Why is it that I still see the number 1400 on the cans when I go to pick up stain? To intermix the color decking stain and the clear decking stain will allow it to penetrate evenly into the wood? This is not film forming is it? I know that when I called Cabots directly, they told me NOT to use a semi-transparent on decks since it was made only for vertical surfaces such as siding and to use the Decking Stains that are semi-solids and to achieve the Semi-transparent look, I should mix with a clear and I just wanted to check with you to see if I understood correctly. Also, what is the durability on these kind of stains? Thanks!

Avoiding a film forming finish is what I want to do. The only semi-transparent I know of is the one that is recommended for Siding only according to the "semi Transparent/Semi-Solids" Brochure. If I use mix the semi-solid that is recommended for decks (and if I understand correctly, this decking stain is film forming) with the Decking clear, would that penetrate into the wood and not be film forming? The customer wants the THATCH color on their deck. Please steer me into which product EXACTLY I should be using. The "Deck Care Products" Brochure only lets me know about the Decking Stain and the Solid Color Decking Stain. I have 2 decks I am doing in which the customer chooses out of the 74 cabots colors as a "semi-transparent" and I want to make sure I use the RIGHT product. Am I clear here?? Sometimes I understand it in my head but I do terrible trying to explain to someone else. What kind of ventilator? The same kind you use when applying chems? My husband has a full face respirator with a battery from Survivair and uses that when applying chemicals.

I have a few questions about Cabots Decking Stains as well. I would like some clarification on some of the responses that were given. The Cabots Decking stains are semi-solids right? This is what I gathered upon calling Cabots directly. Their Semi-Trans are used for siding and will not be a great product to put on a deck due to the quicker fade and less durability. Am I correct here? The Decking Stain which supposedly only comes as a semi-solid can achieve a semi-transparent stain by mixing in with it clear 1400 Decking stain? If this is done, is it still as durable and "better" than the semi-transparent used recommended for siding? One more thing... I worry about my husband breathing in the fumes on a regular basis from the Stains. It says to increase air ventilation if headaches or dizziness occur (but its done outside... how much more air ventilation can you get?) or to wear a respirator. We don't experience headaches or dizziness, but Are there any dangers? What do you other wood restoration professionals that have been in this MUCH longer than us do? I was out with Brian 10 hours straight yesterday and today staining with Cabots Solid Oil Decking Stain and the smell was really strong but I am sensitive to smells anyway. And now that we are done... I still smell it even after a shower and freshen up. He has been doing this all of last season and now this season and this was the first time I helped him and the odor just got me to wondering if he should be protecting himself better. Thanks!