M Pearlstein

I feel like such a whiner since all my posts are request for help. I realize that is a big part of what this board is for but I'll make a point to add some value back when I can. In the meantime.... Started stripping this deck yesterday that I thought had only 2 coats of latex on it. I was way wrong since it has 4 + a primer from what I can tell. I know I should have ton a test patch before bidding but I put together a nice package for these people so in the overall job I have room to make this work. The question is what do I do now? Should I sand the rest with a belt sander? Or apply HD-80 onthe unstripped areas and try again? I have a feeling I will need to doa bunch of defurring anyway but I would like to minimize the sanding to a quick pass if I could. I also still have the rails to strip but those are being done in white again so I am not as concerned about getting it all off. Thanks (again) :)

I agree that this is a great topic because (as I am learning the hard way) it can be such a big labor variable. Tony's post actually spurred a bigger point which is how to properly write a contract. If anyone knows of links to good info on contracts please PM me since I dont want to hijack Kens thread)

Thanks everyone and Ken I may take you up on that. I am going to try and spot apply HD-80 a little hotter and longer dwell tommorow and see if I can get it come off. I know it eats through it somewhat since it got a layer in most spots except the boards that get total shade against the house. I still may want to think about that stripper since I see lots of latex unfortunately. That actually isnt such a bad thing since a good part of my sales approach is educating the customer and that is usually all it takes to move them to oil (semi-transparent). I guess I am learning the downside to stripping so I need to figure it out or change my sales strategy 8) I am actually repainting the rails a solid white which is a little easier. One more question if I may... Does 60 grit s-paper the right choice for removing the remaining paint?

I just finished a deck and the customer is not happy with the color SHE chose. She had a latex dark brown on before and after educating her on the advantages of an oil finish and showing her sample cards she chose the darkest color. Now that it is on she is unsure. So my question is can you put Latex over an oil if she wants this or do I need to strip and start again? I know this is a crap option but I want to make sure I have answers to her questions. Thanks

Hey guys- Thanks for the responses. After letting her sleep on it the night, offering to work out a reasonable deal if needed and reminding her politely that I told her the color would have variations and not look like a solid she agreed she likes it. Thanks

One of the greatest sales tools I have found is using 3rd party articles from newspapers or magazines to support a point. Does anyone have or know of any articles that state how bad Acrylics are for the wood? This moves the focus of the discussion away from "the work and cost required to strip it" too "the value the homeowner will receive" from removing this crap and properly taking care of their deck. Also if anyone has any other articles on any area of wood restoration or pw'ingin general please email me or throw up a link. I heard that last year a non insured PW'er ended up trippin 3 GFI's and than had the homeowner let him run his power from the garage outlet and ended up burning down the house. Since he had no insurance and the HO policy was limited this cost the HO a bundle. I also heard a rogue PW'er killed a lady in Long Island but I am thats another story!

I am new to wood restoration and hope some of you might be able to answer some questions. I have done extensive reading - thanks to all for posting it is really helpful - to try an avoid the basic questions. If I missed any or if there is more info out there that you think would be useful to me than please email or post a link. THE SCENARIO: Instead of making a practice run on my first customers deck I decided to use my brain and get creative. I went poking around a few homes where I saw backyard construction going on and low and behold at the 3rd house I found an elevated deck that had just been torn down since the homeowner is replacing it with a ground level paver patio. The contractor had no problems at all with my taking as many of the floor boards as I wanted. Problem number one solved I now had an old deck that I could work on without worrying about initial mistakes. Next, I plan on using higher end chems since my customer base is very high end - the PW division is an add on to an existing business - but did not have time to get them and was anxious to get started. So I stopped by a local paint store and picked up some Wolmans Stipper, Cabots brightener and a few Cabot stains. I also did not haul my PW trailer to the house so I pulled out a home machine I have had for years figuring that for sure would minimize the chance of using too much pressure. And finally, I used hand spray bottles - like the kind you find inthe grocery store - to apply the chems since I am still not 100% sure if I am using pump up sprayers and if so if I should go with the backpack style. This is what I am leaning towards but chime in here if you have suggestions. QUESTIONS: Sorry for the intorductory ramble but I felt it was important to set the stage. 1. Can you apply too much stripper? -if so what happens? -if not is does this become a balancing act between increased cost of chems versus increased labor times? By this I mean if more chems = less dwell time than presumably you could get done faster and save labor. 2. When done stripping how close to the natural wood color should the boards be? I used the underside (never stained) of a different board as a comaprison? (I just rechecked them since they are dryer now and they are pretty close but I figured I'd leave the question in) 3. If anyone has used the Wolmans stripper and other products like HD-80 can you give me a comaprison in terms of time and ease of use. 4. After stripping - since I was intentionally trying diff things - all the boards are not the exact same color. I imagine this could happen on a deck as well since even though you work in small sections diff. areas of the deck are in diff condition, etc... Is it critical to get all boards to a uniform look to get a consistent color to the finish? My very basic and non scientific results showed that the best reuslts with a moderate coating was a 20-25 minute dwell time with a light brush just before rinsing. Comments on this are absolutely welcome. Brightener: 1. After stripping am I suppossed to wait to brighten or do it immediately to neutralize the stripping agent? 2. What should I look for in terms of visual differance after applying the brightener? Stain/sealing: okay so I obviously have not gotten to this step yet. I figured if I did the above today (Thursday) I would be able to apply stain this weekend (prob Sunday). I did buy a pump sprayer made for stain and will probably take this out this weekend. I was planning on buying an airless spray gun before I did the first job since my best guess is that this will give me the most even coat (assuming it is used properly) in the least amount of time. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this one. Again sorry for the long post and if any of this is answered in a thread or FAQ just point me in the right direction. THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR ANY HELP. Mark

New to surface cleaners and I have one out back to work on my own patio first. I can see the dirt coming up but my question is..... Why wont the same dirt go right back into the deck and look dirty again when dry? I guess the second part of the question is are you suppossed to use a gun to move the dirt once it is lifted? Any advice and tips are welcomed with open arms!! Thx in advance

Ken- Thanks since I was wondering why you only hear about airless and not air-paint guns? i have a compressor already - albeit a small one - but may try that route in the future if I dont go with a deckster. I like the latter's versatility especiially with the hurricane brush.

I just bid this today and I think I will get it next week. I am going to use HD 80 for the first time and I wanted to see how I avoid killing the grass. The pool cover will be off and I cannot wash into the pool.

I stripped a deck last week and there are a few spots that did not come up that I plan on sanding off. I have searched for sandpaper grit guidelines but cant seem to find any. I thought I read at one point that too fine a grit will make it hard for the sealer to penetrate but I do not know what grit that was in reference too. Thanks

sweet looking job Ken and I agree with Celeste that is cover of brochure material. How much longer do you figure it took to hand/rag stain versus your normal method? Not sure is you use a pump up, roller or airless regularly. Also, if you factor in material - and I am assuming hand staining has less waste - what was the over all delta on the project to do it this way? Just trying to learn and I think for my first few deck I am hand rubbing the floors or using a shur-line stain pad and using a spray gun (hand held) and a brish for the rails.

Thanks ken - it is PT so I will bring both and see what happens. Here are some pics pre stripping and unfortunately when I went to reduce their size the program I used had a bug and cropped the picture which I saved before I noticed. Hopefully one of these will make an insert or I am going to need to use a differnet deck fro my brochure, You can see the way the sun hits the deck and it is the shady areas that kicked my but and did not fully strip with the Wolman's junk I was using. Also, notice how the spindles are floor boards. I am curious as to how everyone prices railings like this. I think I greatly underestimated the sf and chems needed for those boards since the soak up a ton and obviously require both sides to be stripped and sealed. OH and finally, you see the small raised section in the first pic. This is where I did all my testing and began and it came up like cake. I found out 3/4 of the first day when stripping that this section was added much later which is why it came up so easily. If it all would have coem up that way I would have been done in 1 less day.

Tony - you are right the pool cover is mesh and my company takes care of the pool so the issue is that my division will get charged back whatever extra labor and chemicals are required to get this pool perfect from the pool service division. It may even be a salt water pool - no chlorine tabs - which will complicate things further. The best I can come up with for this is to block the spa and use it as a holding basin and than take a sump pump and run the waste to the street. Along the back side by the grass and opposite the spa is going to be tough. Maybe I can work it out so I get a pool vaccuum cart out there after stripping and get my helper ot vac.

I am fortunate that with most of my customers the wife doesnt work and carries the checkbook. I of course have some where they both work. I try to work out a time on saturday or at night to meet with them. I always try to measure,inspect and take pics of the deck when they are not home since I can do it in 1/3rd the time. I also find this allows me to talk more intelligently and get the convo from business to "relationship building" time very quickly. IMHO if you can get them to like and trust you they will spend more money and not think twice about it. I said it earlier, people make decisions about what to buy based on emotions AND there is no emotion more compelling than trust! (I hope no one takes this the wrong way since I am only tryig to pass on what has worked for me for a long time)

It's abt 1-1/2 hours south of me. I thonk it's equi-distant from both of us. Check out mapquest.

Okay so pics to follow since my camera ran out of batteries and I need to go back tomorrow to finish up. Questions: 1. when do you neutralize after stripping the whole deck or do you strip and neutralize in sections? 2. After Is tripped my first section the next section had some wet boards from the washdown. When I went to do the 2nd section those wet boards reacted differntly. Is this normal or was it because I was not using a top notch stripper (HD 80 is en route but I had to get this job done). 3. De-furring - Can I do this tomorrow or do I need to wait for the wood to dry for several days? Thanks in advance

Ken - Call me to discuss. I am local'ish depending on where she lives. I am working on a deck now and think I am going to close a restoration on a Mahogony deck tomorrow so I will get some practice in. Or, if you are interested we could do this together with my rig but I need to work out details with my partner. 973-752-6264 Mark Aqua Doctor Restoration Services

I was working on a bluestone patio yesterday that had some black charcoal stains around the grill area. The stains were not underneath the grill so it wasnt food grease or drippings but looked like char that had been cleaned off the grills and than walked on and ground into the bluestone. Any suggestions on how to get something like this out? Thanks

Its a large paver (24" squares) patio. Way too much pressure from my cleaner to use on wood :)

thanks - should have just trusted my instinct

Ken- Now that you filled in some holes I absolutley agree. As I sain in my original post I dont advocate lying in any way, shape or form.

I thought I read that warm water (not hot) was better than cold on decks. Is this incorrect?

Ken- First, why not tell your potential clients you'd be glad to use it if they want it but the product has limited distribution center all of which are located in the Western US and not a proven track record based on conversations with all your contacts in the industry. (I think this is true and am only advocating saying it if this is the case.) Spin it back as not wanting to use their beautiful deck as a guinea pig for new product. Add a "it's because you care about their deck and have high standards" to set yourself ina good light. Now having said all of that damn that company is a good marketing machine. Their advantages page - whether true or false- gives points that should make sense to a customer. I posted this in another thread so sorry for preaching but in sales "perception is reality". End of story. If the customer believes that one product is better, makes more sense, etc... whether it is true or not is irrelevant - they will always buy from the company with the product. In your case I offered some FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) statements above to help counter it but you are now playing defense and not offense.

Seymour- Yup I actually have several more planks that I stripped that I am going to make sample boards from. I plan on leaving some so as I get more stains I will make more samples. I am very big on having samples to show and leave people. Put a nice label on back with the finish and that way when they look at it they see my company.