Dale

There seems to be alot of factors that could lead to different results...bleach on raw, bare wood..vs. using bleach to clean already stained wood before restaining....another contractor using the wrong concentrations...letting it dry..other chems in the house wash mix..etc.

If you stain the bare areas to match the color to whats already stained and put a light coat on all of it, the color may end up not matching anyway and you may need two different colors. The floor thats already done might get too dark. ....Too complicated. If you don't really NEED another coat on the floor why not just match up to whats already there?

3M makes sanders??

Celeste..is that an opaque finish like a solid?

Well...you live in WATER-BURY!!..shouldn't be supurised to be buried in water....sorry Jim I couldn't resist. Just a lame attempt at comic relief. Climate is a *****. Up here I look forward to 6 months of the year scrounging for work spending too much time online or curled into a fetal ball muttering ..."why...why.....why?" Last year was like that up here, we didn't get summer and dry weather till Sept. Just think about all the projects to be done when the weather turns. The "jump the gun" contractors will quickly be over booked and and quality will be in high demand.

Jon, I use my Milwaukee 4 1/2 " angle grinder with an random orbital head attachment...at 10,000 rpm's its pretty quick. Only problem is you can only use it with one hand for a short time. But its fast for certain applications. Why do you have to have one hand use?..reaching over on a ladder work?

Its been really hot and dry here and was wondering how everyone decides if a surface is too hot to seal/stain. I was going to use ATO on a small walkway and when I took a surface temp reading it was 129 degrees, and decided against doing it. Luckily its just down the road a bit but still its a return trip and that cuts into the $$ made. Does everyone just wing it and hope for the best? If so hows the failure rate? I hate the thought of returning to a job another day that could have easily been done today. Should I leave my meter at home?

Pete, I like that idea!! Gonna test an area in the sun and under a tarp for about 20 min. and see how much the temp drops. Thanks!

Shane I'm using Cabots ATO as much as possible. Josh at the tech department said the surface temps should top out at about 90. I'm leary about spraying H2O around oil base too. not worried about using more stain as much as maybe having the coating fail earlier than it should The tent sounds like a good idea but I wonder if it would work on the long runs you have to do to avoid lapping...or the wind might catch it. Beth I knoe you're right about starting REALLY early....but me so sleepy sometimes lol. Jon following the sun is what I do on paintint projects cuz theres always a couple of sides to work on or soffits & fascias, but so many decks always face south here and it really doesn't take long for the temp to build. Thanks for all the tips .If you can't avoid the sun how many do it anyway? any noticable problems?

Lance, I've heard of doing that too, but have never tried it. I wonder how that would work on a larger deck? It would seem that if its dry enough to seal the temp is going back up so you'd have to spray water along side of your staining?? Shane should chime in here.. I can't imagine staing in the hot Texas sun.

Depending on how hard the brick is you could sand blast it.

Ph.? I doubt it but this is what the Primeshop says about it. Water-based Sealants Control of wood pH (alkalinity or acidity) is the single major element in preparing for use of a water-based finish. High alkalinity (base, high pH) may cause milkiness in the finish. High acidity (acid, low pH) may cause segregation of mixed components and result in loose granules on the surface, or may cause premature loosening and flaking/peeling of the finish. In either case, the finish was damaged at the time it was applied One thing that didn't help is the obvious crappy application technique..or thats what it looks like to me by the "padding tracks".

You'd also save the time it takes to defurr. I imagine that this step is skipped with the wet wood products?

I'm leaning the same way. I used an S/H stripper at about 2 1/2 oz/gal to take the mildew and grey off a dock..worked beautiful. Part of the reason I'm leaning to this method in most cases is that it dissolves easier in the cold well water and also I can dissolve it early in a little water (a few gals. depending on the project) and take it to the job and add more water to the mix to get the concentration I want.

David, First..pick a calm day lol. An airless definately has its place but its not always the solution. Where you really could use it to your advantage is on the soffit & beams. I'd do them first to completion. Drape some plastic or sheets or have a helper shield with cardboard. You could per cut some cardboard shields to fit between the exposed beams..carry a small shield with you for the smaller areas and have at it. Depending on the roof or how picky people are I'd brush the fascia. Its hard to not have the up drafts pull overspray to the shingles. I've use a 3' aluminum shield before but thats just not wide enough to be all that efficient. Just my opinion. A lot depends on how you're going to stage the job. Have you used an airless before? Theres a bit of a learning curve. Outside of technique, use the right sized tip and just enough pressure to atomize the paint and get rid of the "fingers". After that I'd put it away and roll the walls.

"In this area of NJ I would guess tear down and rebuild would be 20-24K." Rick..I think it would be much more reasonable than 20-24K. Alot of the cost in a deck is the labor and materials in the framing structure. All you'd have to replace is the deck boards. If you imagine doing the labor in stripping this to a a degree to look good with a semi. vs. the labor to remove and reinstall new boards..I'd rather replace the boards. If you were going to reapply with a soild you don't have to get ALL the old finish off. If the adhesion is good on the old stain..feather, oil prime and top-coat.

So Mark what are you going to use for the floor? I don't want to be a wet blanket but if you're going semi either bid it at what you think is high and then add 40%....the small splits , knots, edges and porus end grain will create a huge labor variable to make it look good especialy with a high contrast change. If you start out doing a really great job on the first 10 feet...you're comitted to the whole floor. If you've factored this in and the client is o.k. with the price..ingore me and go for it!!

Hey!!..looks like fun. I assume you're recoating with a solid? If thats the case you don't have to get it all off. If the ashesion is sound on the remaining stain you could just feather the edges apply a good oil deck primer like Cabots Problem Solver Deck primer and then 2 top-coats. If you're thinking of cleaning this to the point of being able to use a semi ....good luck.

Thats pretty much the rule. There are exceptions like the gloss level, how fresh the coating is or whteher its interior or exterior. You sometimes have to use a tie coat of primer to go latex over oil but it depends on the circumstances. For the most part I never worry much about exterior latex over oil projects.....I'm still confused about M.P.'s situation though..if the product put down was oil why go to latex? But what I really don't understand is how you'd get a lighter color if the reason for changing is because its too dark? It seem like to lighten it you would have to strip the fresh finish. Sounds like a difficult mess.

I don't quite understand what you mean. After putting on an oil, why does she want to go back to latex?

I mix my own cleaners but have been thinking about just using s/h in various concentrations..anyboby else do this? It seems like the percarbs have a difficult time dissolving in cold water. I'm in a rural area and the well water is cold and theres always undissolved per carb in the bottom of the container so you never know what the concentration of the next batch is composed of and because of the short pot life you can't mix it early in warmer water like you can s/h or acids. I used stripper on a dock with no finish on it just years of dead grey wood. mixed at about 2 oz..gal. short dwell and it worked great.. after the acid it looked almost new. The owner was very impressed and so was I. Almost no fuzz. Made out like a bandit on that one. Anyway is there really any benefit to the percarbs...if you can come up with various concentrations for s/h for different situations? I like the foamy fizzle of carbs and all, but what is the real plus when weighing all factors, i.e. another product to ship and buy in enough bulk to offset shipping...hard time dissolving...short pot-life.. is a WEAK s/h solution really more unhealthy than a strong per carb..etc. Does anyone have a guideline for concentration of s/h for just cleaning or stripping a weak failed oil-based semi?..start at 1-2 oz./gal..I know every one is different do tests.

Does anyone have any experience with the durability of Sikkens Cetol SRD vs. Cabots Austrailian Timber Oil? (Cabots was just aquired by Valspar) I've been leaning towards ATO since using it last year though the colors are limited but haven't used the SRD yet. I preped and sealed a clients new cedar deck 2 years ago using Rymars Natural Cedar. The client wanted a clear because the wood looked so beautiful with just a wet look. I warned him about the zero durability of clears and the Rymar was a pretty light tone so he wanted that....well 1 yr. later it sucked and this yr. it looks totally shot....guess who's fault it is? lol. The guys easy going and money is not a problem but he wants something to last more than a year and a half. I suggested the Amberwood...mentioned the Natural and he says "If the Natural is just as durable..use that." I think he still doesn't quite get it. I'm almost afraid to mention the SRD's Natural light or Natural Oak...but I will if someone has experience with them and found them to be about as durable as the Amberwood. The deck is on a narrow point on a large lake so theres lake on 3 sides but the house is set back a couple hundred feet so with all the mature pine trees UV isn't as much of a problem as the debris on the deck..theres a large pine tree sticking thru the deck so theres needles, bark, small branches, etc.everywhere...not a lot but enough to hold some moisture and provide food for surface mildew. Its elevated about 3 feet off the ground. .The family is only up 8-9 times a summer so it doesn't get swept off much. What do you think?? is it pretty much a toss up between ATO and SRD? Thanks, Dale

Thanks James I'll take you up on the offer of advise, theres a couple of other questions I have. I've used the oil as primer and acrylic top-coat quite a bit and agree its the way to go but I've always used the system on decks or walls that were solid color projects. Its always good to learn something new. Just so we're all on the same page we're obviously talking 2 semi's..an oil topped with an acrylic or an oil topped with an oil? ABR uses this system with their Pre-finish/finish system and it makes sense, but the products are formulated to function that way. Are there any issues with topping a paraffin like ABR or RS with a veg oil like most other products? I'm surprised that color anticipation isn't an issue with anything but a clear as a base. It also would have never occured to me to put a wet acrylic over a wet oil ala "wet on wet coating" ..I would have thought that waiting for the oil coat to dry, the semi trans acrylic would just cure on top and lose adhesion. Isn't this the reason for the old "splash test"? Interesting..live and learn.

I used Rymar's Natural Cedar on a new cedar deck 2 yrs.ago...looked like crap in a year and a half and this year looks about 4 yrs old. Some people think its great and maybe the darker tones hold up but I'm not using it again. Part of the reason is that it suggests you put on another coat 90 days after the first coat.(if my memory serves me correctly) this seems like just way too much trouble to sell. Basically the first wash/maintenance coat after 90 days. I have a brochure somewhere. I'll check but I think the info I gave is accurate.

I never considered doing it...went back and forth for a couple of posts and ended up saying it sounded nuts to me.........until I just read a post at Deckguide from Jim that said he's done it a bunch but with 2 oils Ready Seal to prime and top-coat with a filmer. I ain't gonna do that either. lol. Dale