Apple Roof Cleaning

I was looking at a Gas Powered surface cleaner Russ. That way, if the weight of it makes it fall through the roof, you can simply tell the customer "your roof was bad", and charge him for a "roof inspection" I am not a pressure washer Russ, but my friends clean concrete with those gas powered surface cleaners. They say they make quick work of concrete ? Thus, they should ruin a roof equally fast, no ?

I WONDERED what all those people here in Florida were doing with pressure washers in their trailers. I just learned something Russ, I have been cleaning roofs the wrong way for 14 years. I need to pressure wash them, and remove 20 years of dirt, and get the lichens too. Then, I will bag the gutter downspouts, and re sell all the removed granules back to the roofing companies. Someone told me I need to "recover" ? NOW I know what they mean, LOL

Beth and Rod are good people, and mean well. And, just like any other business owners, will change and adapt to marketing conditions. My PERSONAL feeling is this, and I speak ONLY for myself. I honestly believe that a closed forum for contractors only will ultimately be much more successful then one open to search engines. People will seek a closed forum out, and once they find it, will not feel compromised to share like you feel here. Alcoholics Anonymous does NOT advertise, people seek them out. People make a living doing what we do, and I am sure by word of mouth, advertising in trade publications, etc, etc, etc, a closed forum, free of search engine "intervention", etc, etc, will make it. All it takes to "close" a forum is a command in the search engine script to TELL the search engines to stay the heck out. As a matter of fact, many forum scripts are set by DEFAULT this way. Some actually make you pay extra for being open to search engines, or you have to enable it in the forum software.

When we quote prices Dan, and suspect "trouble" from a customer, here is what I do. I tell them it is either gonna be 400, 500, or 600 dollars to clean their roof. 400 to clean the roof, 500 if they watch, or 600 if they watch, and tell me what to do. Putting the respirator on gets rid of em, usually. Not that I don't like customers either. I got enough to worry about w/o a customer being down below in the line of fire.

I Love It !~

Till they slip, fall, and break their DIY necks, LOL

Really Mat, I am more scared of the DIY guy. Or, the "wise guy" who says "I KNOW what you are using because it is posted on an Internet Forum" These Internet Surfers find a thread showing up in the search results, see what they THINK you are using, calculate the chemical cost, and demand a deal. At least the car dealer, when a customer knows the dealer invoice cost, gets a kickback from the manufacturer, or makes money off financing, selling extended warranty, etc.

I know we are in a catch 22 position between contractors finding us, and all our trade secrets being revealed. And, I agree Professionalism is very important too. But, whether we reveal our trade secrets in a professional way or not, the bottom line is they do get revealed in order to teach others, and can sometimes come back to bite us. Alcoholics Anonoymous does not advertise, people seek them out. The Grease Police is a locked forum, and I was reading that they are doing very well. I have heard that several of the Grease Police guys like not having to "watch their back" by having their posts appear randomly on search engines.

On the Moldex respirators we have, the pre filter snaps right on over the cartridge. Not that Moldex is better then 3M or Scott, it is just what we wound up with. I think all respirators must pass Govt regulations for effectiveness, but don't know that for a fact.

WOW! I have a link on my website to another accident http://www.saferoofcleaning.com The link is there in Yellow, and it is named "Tampa Roof Cleaning Explosion Link" It is really a link to a St Petersburg Times Newspaper article. The story made the Tampa TV evening and noon news as well as being in the local Tampa papers.

Yeah, you sure do.' I HAVE tried to be nice to you, even to the point of trying to send you new business. I just wish you would stop soliciting business on this, and other boards. I have had some people tell me they called you for "advice", only to get the sales pitch from you. From helping people on the Internet for many years before you ever thought of getting away from Home Depot, I have a following of people who seek me out for advice. Having NOTHING to sell them, I TRIED to extend an "Olive Branch" out to you Don, but you continue to disrespect me. Then, you make ME look like the bad guy, when it is you that is the problem. Stop your disrespect, and your snide remarks, and "behind the scenes" politicing. I know you can't stand it when I get ANY attention, but please realize I have been doing this a lot longer then you have, and know what I am doing. Here was your latest insult, for all to see, By the way Tasleton2 was giving me a compliment. Couldn't stand it Don, could you ? Don Phelps vbmenu_register("postmenu_80892", true); TGS Site Supporter Posts: 908 Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Orlando, FL Offline Oct 13th, 06, 11:32 PM Quote: Originally Posted by taselton2 VERY WELL PUT, YOU ARE AN ASSET TO OUR PROFESSION. He is, isn't he? There's always a right way and a wrong way to say and do it, and he knows how........

Show Him This http://www.asphaltroofing.org/pdf/tb_217.pdf This is the ARMA PDF file Beth was referring to when she did her research. Chris

I know you merely forgot Beth. We all know how dedicated you and Rod are to doing things right. We gotta all remember that not everyone who reads what info is shared here is a veteran like most of us are, and KNOWS TSP is the second ingredient mentioned by ARMA. BTW, when the Cleaner Times came, one of my guys took it to the breakfast place, and I "caught" him reading your article!!! He about gave birth when I told him I "knew" you! He said "no way". When we got back, I took him to TGS, and showed him a post we were both in, and he just could not get over that someone could actually "talk" to you. Now, he is JUST a kid, starting his career in our industry here at Apple, and so he is VERY impressionable. He is a good kid though, and wants to make a career out of Cleaning. You made a great impression on him! I asked him what he thought of your article, and he said "Maybe I can someday find ME a girlfriend to be my cleaning partner" Just wanted you to know! Chris

Happy Halloween to you too Beth! Over at ***, there is a post on this article. I read it in haste, and it appeared Henry was teaching this method of roof cleaning. Not being of the Sodium Hydroxide "school of thought", I immediately jumped all over it. Henry emailed me and told me that he prefers bleach. Apple Roof Cleaning has long been an opponent of using ANY pressure on a shingle roof, or Sodium Hydroxide either http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml95/95130.html The above link has been on my roof cleaning website for almost 6 years. I just wanted to mention that ARMA recommends Bleach AND TSP. We must NOT forget about the TSP ? Somehow it kinda gets "forgotten" in the pro and con arguments of Hypochlorite vs Hydroxide ? ARMA knows what they are doing in recommending Bleach AND TSP together. TSP creates a synergestic reaction with Bleach, and allows one to use less concentrations of it. It is important to remember that strong Chlorine solutions can harm a roof too! Despite what the "Chlorine Cowboys" want to hear, we TRY and teach the right way to clean a shingle roof. One need only to look at the ARMA PDF file ? It says "Bleach and TSP" THe ARMA link is on my website, one one of the pages, or it may be found in a Google search. Trick OR Treat ?? Chris

With all due respect Scott, do not hold your breath. I think it will be a cold day in hell before ANY shingle manufacturer actually recommends a Sodium Hydroxide based cleaner.

I have NEVER ever seen a shingle manufacturer actually remommend Sodium Hydroxide. I have heard manufacturers CLAIM that their Sodium Hydroxide based cleaner is recommended, but never seen any proof! I think this Henry guy who wrote the articles is simply a "parrot", and repeating what he has heard. There is an old saying that goes "Tell a lie often enough, and it becomes truth" It kind of reminds me of the ridiculous claim that using bleach will "neutralize" Termite treatment. I know several old time pest control guys who told me, off the record that Termited HATE bleach, LOL And, a quick and dirty way to "Termite Proof" a house was to simply spray bleach all around it. Of course, this is not good for plants ... I have actually seen Insects flat get up and leave a house or yard when Bleach spills. They do not like the Love

I hear you man! Here is another link I found http://www.ultimatewasher.com/hose-pressure-loss.htm It agrees closely with your findings. One will notice that at larger Gpm, pressure drop increases drastically. Gosh, no wonder all my friends who are doing commercial P/W with high GPM pumps use the big stuff! I can tell you this, my commercial roof cleaning truck uses 5/8 hose, and my everyday ones uses 1/2 inch, same pumps. The commercial truck will simply walk away from the residential when it comes to speed. Hose length is 250 to 300 feet on both, give or take. I think I saw Don or Lance, or somebody, give an excellent recommendation to a newbie, suggesting he unroll all his hose when max pressure was required. These calculations do not include some real world losses like coiled hose, or height above ground. There are some other advantages to big hose too, LOL My friend Joe, from Signal Commercial in S.W. Florida was up here in Tampa, and we were out Bar hopping. We spotted a cute lady outside, and went to go talk with her. A "pseudo biker" asked her if she wanted to go for a Harley Ride, and she was gone, just like that. Joe looked at me and said "Dam Chris, I wish I had my rig up here" Puzzled, I asked him how his beautiful commercial rig, as pretty as it is, could possible compete with a nice Harley Davidson ?? He just smiled confidently, and said he would simply ask her to come to his trailer, and see his "Big Hose"

That's pretty right on Ron! And that is reason number one you NEVER want 3/8 hose in long runs on a Shurflo chemical pump. With a decent pressure washing pump, you have PSI to spare, and might never notice the pressure drop, except on a surface cleaner, like Lance said. But, it's death on a little Shurflo that only has 45 to 100 psi to offer. The long 3/8 hoses pressure drop is so bad that it requires one to further restrict what little flow you have left with a small nozzle, to increase velocity so it can "spray". BTW, though I am but a roof cleaner only, I do know some real successful commercial power washers here in my area, and they use bigger diameter hose then 3/8. They swear by the bigger hose for cleaning parking lots, and large area's. I posted a flow loss calculator in a roof cleaning thread about 3/8 hose. Because I am not a Pressure Cleaner, I never explored the calculations for flow loss at higher pressures. It might be interesting to see not how much pressure you pressure washing guys are losing, but how much FLOW as well, in a small 3/8 hose ? I was told that GPM times pressure equals cleaning effectiveness, but again, that is just what I was taught over at Delco, and I am NOT a pressure washing expert. I was also taught that the more GPM the better. So, I can see why some of my commercial P/W friends use this larger hose. For an equal amount of pressure and flow, a larger hose would appear to be always better, except dragging it around, LOL I just may go do some calculations, because I am curious about this ? It may be that because there is so much pressure to throwaway, that larger hose really don't matter ?