Apple Roof Cleaning
-
Content count
3,075 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
27
Posts posted by Apple Roof Cleaning
-
-
Chris,Yes! Thank you for mentioning TSP. I neglected to mention it above, but it certainly was shown in the research I did to be a part of the roof cleaning process.
Mathew,
You are welcome to post any article here you like. Please use the Library forum. :)
Beth
:cup:
I know you merely forgot Beth.
We all know how dedicated you and Rod are to doing things right.
We gotta all remember that not everyone who reads what info is shared here is a veteran like most of us are, and KNOWS TSP is the second ingredient mentioned by ARMA.
BTW, when the Cleaner Times came, one of my guys took it to the breakfast place, and I "caught" him reading your article!!!
He about gave birth when I told him I "knew" you!
He said "no way".
When we got back, I took him to TGS, and showed him a post we were both in, and he just could not get over that someone could actually "talk" to you.
Now, he is JUST a kid, starting his career in our industry here at Apple, and so he is VERY impressionable.
He is a good kid though, and wants to make a career out of Cleaning.
You made a great impression on him!
I asked him what he thought of your article, and he said "Maybe I can someday find ME a girlfriend to be my cleaning partner"
Just wanted you to know!
Chris
-
None of my research lead me to sodium hydroxide as a chemical for roof cleaning. I referenced two AHJ's,... ARMA and CS&SB. While I did not discuss (due to article length limitations) the chems to avoid, sodium hydroxide was not among those discussed as preferred and "OK" for roof cleaning.I would encourage anyone who is unfamiliar with roof cleaning to speak to someone at ARMA (for asphalt) or at CS&SB (Cedar Shake & Shingle Bureau) regarding any questions you may have and to put your mind at ease. My understanding from all my research, which also included a review of the PWNA manual, is that sodium hydroxide is not mentioned as a cleaning agent, nor is it suggested. It is a known taboo.
There may be a difference between what is taught from the manual, and what a distributor may sell. I have not sat through this particular course, so I can't comment any farther that that. In the classes I have sat in before, chemical names are mentioned, but products are not. In other words the manual was adhered to.
Beth
:cup: Good morning! Happy Halloween! :cup:
Happy Halloween to you too Beth!
Over at ***, there is a post on this article.
I read it in haste, and it appeared Henry was teaching this method of roof cleaning.
Not being of the Sodium Hydroxide "school of thought", I immediately jumped all over it.
Henry emailed me and told me that he prefers bleach.
Apple Roof Cleaning has long been an opponent of using ANY pressure on a shingle roof, or Sodium Hydroxide either http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml95/95130.html
The above link has been on my roof cleaning website for almost 6 years.
I just wanted to mention that ARMA recommends Bleach AND TSP.
We must NOT forget about the TSP ?
Somehow it kinda gets "forgotten" in the pro and con arguments of Hypochlorite vs Hydroxide ?
ARMA knows what they are doing in recommending Bleach AND TSP together.
TSP creates a synergestic reaction with Bleach, and allows one to use less concentrations of it.
It is important to remember that strong Chlorine solutions can harm a roof too!
Despite what the "Chlorine Cowboys" want to hear, we TRY and teach the right way to clean a shingle roof.
One need only to look at the ARMA PDF file ?
It says "Bleach and TSP"
THe ARMA link is on my website, one one of the pages, or it may be found in a Google search.
Trick OR Treat ??
Chris
-
If you notice this an ad for the PWNA roof cleaning class. What you don't see here is that Henry owns a sunbrite franchise.He is also a PWNA board member.(If that is not an accurate description of the sunbrite store, Pete I apologize.But I will welcome your explanation on the matter.)
Naturally Sunbrite sells NAOH based roof cleaner. So that is what I am Speculating will be the method taught at the convention.
Henry lurks around here but hasn't posted as much as he used to. So If shingle manufacturing company has changed their postion in writing please share the technical bulletein with us please. All I can go by is the ARMA technical bulletein that says Sodium Hypochlorite.Sodium Hydroxide is not mentioned.
So if Henry or any other PWNA training coordinator can share this change with us in writing it will both help me in being factual in my statements and lend the PWNA some much needed credibility.
Look forward to eliminating the confusion.
Scott
With all due respect Scott, do not hold your breath.
I think it will be a cold day in hell before ANY shingle manufacturer actually recommends a Sodium Hydroxide based cleaner.
-
Pay particular attention to the fact that apparently some roofing munfacturers now recommend sodium hydroxide for cleaning roof.Last time I saw the ARMA bulletin it was still S/H,TSP and water.http://www.cleanpeers.com/articles/cleaning-asphalt-roofs.htm
I have NEVER ever seen a shingle manufacturer actually remommend Sodium Hydroxide.
I have heard manufacturers CLAIM that their Sodium Hydroxide based cleaner is recommended, but never seen any proof!
I think this Henry guy who wrote the articles is simply a "parrot", and repeating what he has heard.
There is an old saying that goes "Tell a lie often enough, and it becomes truth"
It kind of reminds me of the ridiculous claim that using bleach will "neutralize" Termite treatment.
I know several old time pest control guys who told me, off the record that Termited HATE bleach, LOL
And, a quick and dirty way to "Termite Proof" a house was to simply spray bleach all around it.
Of course, this is not good for plants ...
I have actually seen Insects flat get up and leave a house or yard when Bleach spills.
They do not like the Love
-
According to the chart in the Dultmeier book, using 100 feet of 3/8" hose,3 gpm = 50 psi
4 gpm = 90 psi
5 gpm = 130 psi
6 gpm = 220 psi
8 gpm = 300 psi
Using 100 feet of 1/2"
3 gpm = 13 psi
4 gpm = 24 psi
5 gpm = 34 psi
6 gpm = 52 psi
8 gpm = 80 psi
I use 1/2" hose for the first 100 feet off the reel. As I replace hoses, they will all be 1/2".
I hear you man!
Here is another link I found http://www.ultimatewasher.com/hose-pressure-loss.htm
It agrees closely with your findings.
One will notice that at larger Gpm, pressure drop increases drastically.
Gosh, no wonder all my friends who are doing commercial P/W with high GPM pumps use the big stuff!
I can tell you this, my commercial roof cleaning truck uses 5/8 hose, and my everyday ones uses 1/2 inch, same pumps.
The commercial truck will simply walk away from the residential when it comes to speed.
Hose length is 250 to 300 feet on both, give or take.
I think I saw Don or Lance, or somebody, give an excellent recommendation to a newbie, suggesting he unroll all his hose when max pressure was required.
These calculations do not include some real world losses like coiled hose, or height above ground.
There are some other advantages to big hose too, LOL
My friend Joe, from Signal Commercial in S.W. Florida was up here in Tampa, and we were out Bar hopping.
We spotted a cute lady outside, and went to go talk with her.
A "pseudo biker" asked her if she wanted to go for a Harley Ride, and she was gone, just like that.
Joe looked at me and said "Dam Chris, I wish I had my rig up here"
Puzzled, I asked him how his beautiful commercial rig, as pretty as it is, could possible compete with a nice Harley Davidson ??
He just smiled confidently, and said he would simply ask her to come to his trailer, and see his "Big Hose"
-
all my units have 300feet.....all calibrated to run full pressure at 300 feet.That a close guess, about 100psi for 100 feet.
That's pretty right on Ron!
And that is reason number one you NEVER want 3/8 hose in long runs on a Shurflo chemical pump.
With a decent pressure washing pump, you have PSI to spare, and might never notice the pressure drop, except on a surface cleaner, like Lance said.
But, it's death on a little Shurflo that only has 45 to 100 psi to offer.
The long 3/8 hoses pressure drop is so bad that it requires one to further restrict what little flow you have left with a small nozzle, to increase velocity so it can "spray".
BTW, though I am but a roof cleaner only, I do know some real successful commercial power washers here in my area, and they use bigger diameter hose then 3/8.
They swear by the bigger hose for cleaning parking lots, and large area's.
I posted a flow loss calculator in a roof cleaning thread about 3/8 hose.
Because I am not a Pressure Cleaner, I never explored the calculations for flow loss at higher pressures.
It might be interesting to see not how much pressure you pressure washing guys are losing, but how much FLOW as well, in a small 3/8 hose ?
I was told that GPM times pressure equals cleaning effectiveness, but again, that is just what I was taught over at Delco, and I am NOT a pressure washing expert.
I was also taught that the more GPM the better.
So, I can see why some of my commercial P/W friends use this larger hose.
For an equal amount of pressure and flow, a larger hose would appear to be always better, except dragging it around, LOL
I just may go do some calculations, because I am curious about this ?
It may be that because there is so much pressure to throwaway, that larger hose really don't matter ?
Hmmm...
in The Club House
Posted · Report reply
Show Him This http://www.asphaltroofing.org/pdf/tb_217.pdf
This is the ARMA PDF file Beth was referring to when she did her research.
Chris