810F250

Awesome design in my opinion, yes Ron I would have liked to see it live. I dont know what the specs are on the pre-heater, but I thought they may have been able to capture more heat from the engine exhaust exchanger to have a larger impact on the burner fuel usage. I would need more tech detail on the ECOS, but I have seen carpet care machines heat ~4 gpm to over 212F from twin cylinder exhaust exchangers. I agree about the vac, possibly lacking muscle, but if the design intention is what Guy B mentioned (retail store end users), its not going to be used heavily (daily) as a pw contractor then that vac maybe good enough, more than likely landa distributors would sell service contracts for the equipment to those type of users. (((((Landa )))))) A setup with a SLT/SLX boiler size, single engine driving dual pumps (one on a clutch) for true dual gun, with a engine driven blower producing at least 450 cfm @ 15 Hg (I dont think most want to lay out the money on a true dual vac setup, so one big blower), and a smaller mobile pretreatment tank utilizing your CoAg2-20A System technology and at least 300 sq ft final filtration , "Priced competitively" !!!! .........this would attract heavy use pw contractors, in my opinion. I still however like the ECOS, great job!!

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Great info Rod. I wash my house at least once a year, black streaks on the gutters and above the window trim molding "tiger striping" returns within 2 years. Vinyl siding/Stripes look cleaner after the a good house wash mix down streamed (suds sucker, or double injector), but the brush on a pole dipped directly in the mix removes moderate stripes completely.

Nice work Brian, the second photo reveals the true size of the property. Wonder what others think the estimated time this job would have took to complete with their resources ? (list the following time,... with what size machine/tools/manpower/detergent mix/method etc)

Something like this, but where one of the arms has a smaller diameter than the other? The above is a mosmatic arm TKA-4w4 (4 arms / 4 nozzles) http://www.mosmatic.com/cms2/us/content/products/high-pressure/rotor-arms/4000-psi.html

with 4 gpm, I think you would be fine at 3/4" id. I like the idea of a filter before the tank, Matthew mentioned, i get rust in my tank from the fill line hose reel. Question for you Chris, did you notice a increase in flow or force at the gun with your direct drive pump, being tank feed and the same unit that was pressure feed from a good supply spigot? Just wondering , because I did, and questioned an AR pump engineer, he said that most direct drive and pulley/gear driven pump have a higher volumetric efficiency being pressure feed. Just some trivia Chris/Guys, did you know that a pump that has a flow rating like yours for example of 4 gpm (at a particular speed) there are moments during the revolutions of the plungers with in a minute that the pump requires more than 4gpm supply? Why? It has to do with the acceleration and deceleration of the plungers. It is actually recommended that you feed the pump with 1.5 times the advertised gpm at a particular speed.

Thanks Rod. Bleach is definitely a strong oxidizer. Rust inhibitors is an important difference between clorox outdoor and clorox bleach regular for house washing/metal surfaces use. The formulation of clorox clean up has a more comprehensive ingredient mixture for house washing, its close to the four key elements that you mentioned in your current mix.

Nice write up Rod. Using less bleach to achieve a superior clean is great. Thats one of the lowest concentrations I have heard of in house washing. Did you first start out using this current quantity of bleach for house washing? If not what was it? I believe that bleach between fingers is more difficult to be rinsed because of bleach's reaction with body oils which produce soaps. I think on hard surfaces that a bleach solution rinses much quicker by comparison.

Saw this a few months ago and thought it maybe a great educational addition in this thread.

How many gpm pressure pump and what size of 150' of hose? I have experienced that I get less draw with a suds sucker from 100' 3/8" vs 200' of 1/2" at 8gpm, 1/4" hose barb as spray nozzle. cant remember what the pump head reads

Initially I thought it was on the pump end, wrong, but it makes more sense, its the engine. About the engine popping, in the kohler motors manual it recommends the operator bring the throttle to about half speed and then turning off the ignition, not sure if this procedure is useful for the briggs, but when I do it on the 13Hp honda it does stop the engine shut down popping.

something like this Fox's problem was he had a flow type unloader, and the nozzle size was to small it caused the unloader to cycle, once he used the correct size nozzle it stopped. But you are saying the opposite, your nozzle size is bigger and it cycles, humm.......

I agree with having strong charging systems, I think I have the standard 20amp charging on my 30Hp Kohler, when using a delvan 12v pump from the fully charged battery, the 12v pump flow is much stronger with the Kohler running. I however have 120V burner systems. I remember you telling me Jerry that the bigger Briggs have an "ultra beefy" special order charging system,......... was it 30 or 35 amps? I know it was bigger than the Kohlers max at 25amps

Sounds good Jerry, have you done a setup of which you mentioned?

This thread has so much info already, since I mentioned transmissions so many times with links I thought I might put this interesting transmission coupling here. Vibroflex Coupling A key feature of the RHD range is the unique Vibroflex torsional drive coupling. Located in-between the engine and gearbox it eliminates the on-off stresses and snatch effect that can occur when a conventional hollow to solid shaft drive system is used. What do you think Russ?

I forgot about that Russ, thats a big hole, there goes the fuel savings,.... now that you need a separate generator to run a 120v burner. for those that have recycling systems and a generator running already the idea maybe a viable option.

Thanks Jerry, it was a thought I had for sometime, the only other way that I think you can achieve adjustable pump speeds on a fixed transmission drive is with a (1.943: 1) gear reduction. so at 3400rpm loaded engine speed you obtain the ~1750 rpm pump speed and at 2817rpm loaded engine speed you obtain the ~1450 rpm pump speed Provided the engine of has adequate HP at both 3400 and 2817 speeds for the pump HP requirements at the various speeds above. A 30 Hp Kohler in theory may just run a TSF2021 with a (1.943 : 1) reduction transmission, its engine power at 2900rpm is ~ 24HP and ~29HP at 3400rpm (I would rather at least 34Kohler) Then an operator would have the luxury of adjusting flow from 8.5 @ 3500psi to 6 gpm @ 3500psi, by adjusting engine speed, if you used a Briggs 35 HP engine you would not have to worry about the proper functioning of the hydraulic lifters on the kohlers. (although I think they would be fine at 2400 rpm engine speed, it maybe wise however to have oil pressure and temp monitoring on the kohler). 8.5 gpm for rinsing and house washing and 6 gpm for better boiler heat gain and waste water management. Instead of wasting energy unloading pressurized water through the bypass to achieve the 6 gpm output, which I have done on occasion. Think about the engine fuel savings and flexability. Sorry Mark for jacking this thread,

So thats explains why those direct drive pumps are rated at 3400rpm, ......see a little tech talk is good, lol........I always wondered why not a 3600 rpm rating like the engine it is bolted to. Russ I see that kohler has their command pro series gas engines no load speed at 3750rpm, i adjusted my kohler to this rpm once and had a little more water from the pump, was good for a house wash & rinsing but it dropped the coil outlet temp for concrete cleaning, so i put it back. You know what I would like to see......an industry shift adjustable 2 speed transmission (at least 2 speeds) so that an operator can choose to run his pump at either of the common manufacturers ratings; 1450 rpm or 1750 rpm.....ahhhhh...... No pulleys or belts to mess with, increasing/decreasing flow as needed........ wouldn't that be sweet?

Jerry I was just trying to understand the formula, and what % of the engine load is incorporated in the (psi x gpm)/1100, because I have seen the other calculations that I have mentioned above. After my first fill of natural engine oil that broke in the kohlers, I use Mobil 1 Syn I need to wash more indeed, this is as close as I could get to working on the mechanicals of pw units, i like the basic tech talk, I guess I miss the days of working on steam and gas turbines in the ammonia and LNG industries.

What is the engine rpm at 3/4 WOT you figure Russ J? i was told not to run my kohlers under 3000 rpm, for cooling, Hydrulic oil pressure, etc

Thanks Russ,.... I have seen that formula and some variations (the denominator as 1460), ....... is (gpm x Psi)/1100 running the gas motor at its upper limit? Most dont run engines under tested HP conditions(maximum rpm, good gas , at sea level, not using the charging system, no air filter restriction, 60F inlet air, clean engine oil etc, etc, etc)

:topic: Jerry the formula that we have become accustomed to (psi multiplied by gpm) divided by 1100 incorporates the 80% factor for gas engines? Some manufacturers say run your gas engine at 3400 rpm, ... but for that engine speed the charts shows that it produces less horsepower than advertised, ........and the manufacturers advertised HP ratings is of a production sample of gas engines and are all at 3600 rpm without accessories and at sea level. Is this some of the reasons I have seen some equations that take the electric brake HP calculation and multiply it by a number from as little as 1.5 to as much as 2.0 to obtain the gas HP requirement?

What size/type of engine are you running? Whats the 8@ 2500psi pump going to cost you? (Asking because,.......It maybe worthwhile to add a small engine and pump for a little more $$ and join the two units, that way you would get the desired 8gpm and maintain the psi for faster concrete cleaning, .......you would also benefit from having redundancy on the rig as well...something that would probably pay for itself/make you feel less stressed the day that your main unit craps on a job.)

So true!!

True that, i use cryo rotors and race pads, same axel however, i agree you have to look at the bigger pic.