810F250

Understanding what is occuring with Jim's technique and temperatures, maybe even more complaicted, after reading this wikipedia page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isenthalpic An isenthalpic process or isoenthalpic process is a process that proceeds without any change in enthalpy, H; or specific enthalpy, h.[1] In a steady-state, steady-flow process, significant changes in pressure and temperature can occur to the fluid and yet the process will be isenthalpic if there is no transfer of heat to or from the surroundings, no work done on or by the surroundings, and no change in the kinetic energy of the fluid.[2] (If a steady-state, steady-flow process is analysed using a control volume everything outside the control volume is considered to be the surroundings.[3]) The throttling process is a good example of an isenthalpic process. Consider the lifting of a relief valve or safety valve on a pressure vessel. The specific enthalpy of the fluid inside the pressure vessel is the same as the specific enthalpy of the fluid as it escapes from the valve.[2] With a knowledge of the specific enthalpy of the fluid, and the pressure outside the pressure vessel, it is possible to determine the temperature and speed of the escaping fluid If indeed it is an isenthalpic process as water exits the zero degree nozzle, the enthalpy of water in the hose at 300F is then equal to the enthalpy of water/steam exiting the zero nozzle (before impacting the surface), that energy is significantly higher than a pressure washer at 200F. (water enthalpy is ~ 50% more ...... @ 300F = 634KJ/kg vs 200F = 411KJ/kg).

Scott I am not an engineer, but I have a little thermodynamics understanding, you have to consider the "Latent heat of Vaporization" and use a "steam tables" to determine what percentage of water (at a particular temperature and pressure) would turn to steam at atmospheric pressure. Not all will turn to steam immediately. The energy that is needed to heat the water above boiling 212F is released and trapped buy the surface cleaner dome aiding in the removal of hydrocarbons. This extra heat energy is not produced if temps are below boiling. Remember water can exist at 212F and steam can exist at 212F (the energy required to change all the water to steam at the same 212F is the latent heat of vaporization) I am sure you heard the saying "a steam burn is far worse than a hot water burn";.......the latent heat is the reason , there is simply far more energy in the steam beyond the boiling point You have to consider too that Jim uses zero degree nozzles thus there is exponentially less expansion at the nozzle as compared to a fan tip (expansion = cooling) (no expansion =higher water temp just outside nozzle) Lastly the zero degree nozzle impact is 1.9 x psi, far greater than 15 deg or 25 deg. at the same distance, Finally Jim's modified turbo twister drives the water into the dirt another increase in forces. (unfortunately he did not bring those units to Vegas)

I could not believe how fast forward a walk pace a 20" surface cleaner with 3 arm zero deg. 0003 nozzles at 8 gpm @ 3600 was able to do without stripes. Wish I made video. Thanks for the offer Ron, but I dont have an "s-style" arm for the mosmatic, so I would not be able to use the tool. As a matter of fact I dont know of anyone one who has "s-style" arms installed in a mosmatic.

Its not Cyclone Scott, its a high end water jetting company that has developed this technology, its called the "Scater 5". I agree about diminishing returns Holidays is over! Give them a call again. Thats what I have been hearing, they have a tool to adjust, wonder if mosmatic adjustable "s style" comes with an angle setting tool?

Sounds like its worth a try Scott, I think however when you get to the =>10 gpm range for large area surface cleaning , 2 sets of swivels under one deck would offer more area coverage and better efficiency than one huge deck and one set of arms. How about this for innovation, I have seen a surface cleaner that uses some of the flow to create vacuum under the surface cleaner so it does not require a mechanical vacuum. Jerry I agree with your statements above but sometimes wide angle nozzles does not give the cleaning impact needed to reach a satisfactory level of clean, even if I go slower, it just does not have the "punching power". Chris I remember you mentioning this on ***. Heard anything further from those guys on the water treatment?

That would be a heavy trailer Jim, putting the rubber ride axles on there too? What about the color, Crystal Cleaning Company "Yellow"

Jim that was just for you. The above zero deg use was testing done based upon your recommendation Jim. I have to admit that you have made some great equipment recommendations, three of which I have applied and I am happy with the results, at least 8 more to go (you see, I was listening to you during those long conversations at 2.00 am). I would have to re-attempt and log cleaning differences of the 230-245 F barrier. I pressure washed an oil stained concrete driveway (8 month penetration, car dripping daily) , washed at 8 gpm with sc and 15deg nozzles @ ~ 195 F, looked ok, then I upped the thermostat to 250F and cut the flow to 4.5 gpm and used a zero nozzle, the stain became cleaner ( much less of a shadow in concrete , sorry no pics), started rinsing and observed "blackish water" from my pw hose (not sure what it was, coil or hose) I would have rather more testing controls in place.

Pic of surface cleaning. No Chem same pw machine via 200 ft 1/2" hose 0 deg nozzles (0003.0) in a 20" Whirl-A-Way 3 arm 8 gpm @ 190F pump head reading 3600 psi vs 15 deg nozzles (1503.0) in a 30" Mosmatic 3 arm 8 gpm @ 190F pump head reading 3300 psi

You are correct the 30" is faster for the listed criteria by about 1.9 sqft per linear foot foward (i think i did the calculation correct), in addition I myself used more energy because I had to walk faster and more laps, but all this was done for a particular job where I used zeros in the smaller surface cleaner and felt that I would have to walk at a babys crawl with the 30" and zeros, also the area was not that huge a drive thru. (Looking for the surface pics).

This sound good in theory but with the extra weight of the additional arms I would venture to put the two you suggested straight down to remain at 15 degs and increase the angle on the other two arms. Smaller four arm SC's are probably a delight, but most that have 4 arm surface cleaners have big decks , the arc length between nozzles is probably close to a smaller surface cleaner with less arms, so they find that the forward speed is still slow.

' When I used the zero degree I downsized the surface cleaner from 30" to 20" both at 8 gpm I was able to walk almost twice as fast with the 20" with zero than the 30" at 15 deg nozzle. (both 3 arm). Have to look see if I have a side by side cleaning pic.

I had that idea, but not in a surface cleaner, but in a straight line with 4 turbos in a line, I think it would be faster than a surface cleaner, way faster, because of the impact you would have to move the tool fast enough not to grind into the crete. I just wondered what is the minimum flow to use on each.

Felt like I got a whipping, lol, jokes aside, thanks for you real world experiences input. Response to Paul below is one way I was thinking to overcome the surface impact loss due to increased arm nozzle tilt. Your thoughts? Paul I thought about the impact force , impact force of zero deg. is much more significant than that of 15 deg, I have tried both angles on high psi concrete what a difference (no chems either), anyway I was thinking to adjust the nozzle tilt on the arms to get a higher rpm, I am thinking the zero degrees would still give more cleaning impact than the stock 15 deg nozzles at stock 15 deg arm tilt.

I guess what I am asking is,...........is adjusting the nozzle tilt angle beyond 15 deg, worth it/productive?

Repost @ g scene Thanks for the responses guys. I figured that the manufacturers had it set for optimal cleaning and speed but on paper 15 deg looked small (on paper, 45deg would be half the fluid energy to the spinning and the other half to the cleaning)and wondered if it could be tweaked I could gain a little more arm speed, translating to faster forward speed. I would have compensated for the impact by increasing gpm, pressure or decreasing nozzle angle (maybe 0503, instead of the 1503 I use).

LOL, you know it, what angles have you observed with the other brands Paul?

General Pump's website wont tell you that, ......good knowing someone with the inside scoop, Russ J !!

Thanks for the responses, I asked this question because the Landa and Steel Eagle surface cleaner videos I have seen sound very fast as compared to my units. I wonder if the deublin swivel is the key to their speed sound or if the have a greater tilt angle a well. Side note: I have greased my BE (Whirl-A-Way) swivel and noticed a drop in rotational speed sound, after some hours of operation it seemed to return to normal. (I will measure the Whirl-A-Way SC arm angle, and report back). I like the idea of being able to adjust the angle for the type of surface being cleaned, (at least on paper, I may find out that it is a feature that I would not use often)

great advice! here is a link to pressure switch literature

Congratulations on being published in, Parking Today, Jim. This article would provide garage owners and parking facilities management with some technical insight into the parking garage cleaning processes and equipment. Parking Today see page 24 in the event this link goes dead, see attached pdf copy of page. Parking Garage Cleaning Article.pdf

Although we meet once at the Vegas Round Table, I feel like I have know you for a much longer time, I am reviewing you technical videos on youtube all the time. Thank You for your contribution to the industry. Mr Larry Hinckely............, you would truly be missed, best wishes to you and yours.

Congrats Chris, my wife and I just hit "diamond" today. Yes I was implying Sunbrite/Sunbelt seminar, sure I am open to the idea of a meeting or better yet a pw project together.

Chris, the flatbead looks sweet, missed you last saturday

Ron Nigel here, put me down also.