Greg R

We bid material (stain only) seperate from the bid. Outside of that be bid out jobs by the square foot on the floor, framing and lattice and by the linear foot on the railings systems. Every deck has its challenges so you have to factor in a PIA charge on some :)

Interesting topic..... I wouldn't be surprised to see a color variation in the brightening as oxalic is a much stronger acid. I would be surprised to see any difference the the spread rates though. The strippers/cleaners are typically what pull the oils out of the wood. The acids to my knowledge should just be supressing the tanins in the wood and off-setting the alkaline ph closer to nuetral.

We use dual lancers as well however like Rick (Im assuming) we dont use them for chemical application or anything. They just give you some serious control at the wand for adjusting the pressure needed to clean wood. Every deck, fence or siding job is a little different and you have to find that "sweet spot" sorta speak. Too much pressure and you'll fur the wood.... too little and you may not remove all you need to. The dual lance wand is a huge timesaver over having to change out tips or adjust unloaders. I wont do a job without one.

If you didn't already have it on hand I would say your crazy :) Oxi clean is EXPENSIVE! You can prep a deck with oxiclean - it will just cost you more and you may work a little harder at it. The power is in the percarb as it is the oxidizer.

What stripper were you using Jim? Im curious if our batch wasn't just too hot. We were stripping 3 day old BEHR off of there from a painting contractor who goofed up.

Deck is awesome looking! Great job

Oh and on these we use TimberStain UV Semi Trans or Cabot Decking Stains on the floor and rail cap. They have more pigment at the surface to hide the remnants of any stain left in cracks/checks. Then use just a solid bodied acrylic on the railing.

Oh come on :) Where's the wood care spirit????? These jobs do really stink but there is a solution. You probably wont like it though. Best bet is to get as much of the loose and flaking off with the washers - let dry - than break out your Makita 9227C with a 8" disc and 80 grit paper. Yep - Sand the floor back to new. We turn them into Two-tones leaving the handrail white (or a color depicted by the homeowner) and stain the flooring and handrail cap in a semi trans. It's a customer for life when you do these and 2 guys on makitas can usually knock out a floor in a couple hours. We're charging on average $6 a square foot on the floor and $8.50 a linear foot on the railing. With the extra labor involved you really don't make a whole lot more money but as I said previously - you'll have a customer for life.

Yes it can take the finish off of those balasters - we did the interior of a 4200 sq ft all pine horse barn last year and learned the hard way. I tested the aluminum (w/ black powder coat) initially with stripper for fear of exactly that and it didn't seem to have any effect. Given the dwell however it started breaking down the finish. We then had to remove all the aluminum gates, fans and trim from the horse barn (what a pain!) in order to strip the interior down. Sodium hydroxide will actually disolve a chunk of aluminum entirely if given enough time so all I can say is use caution. It's hard to mask when using stripper since it pretty much disolves the glue on tapes as well. Thus far I really haven't found a good solution to doing these unfortunately. Also - if thats not enough the acid based brighters can etch the finish if left to long.

Hi Rick, I can't necessarily speak for the present as more products have made it to market since I "moved on" but generally speaking yes in my experience.

Anthony - What are you hood guys using for foamers now-a-days?? I've always wanted to try one on certain strip jobs to see if the "cling" would help :) Not to mention it would give you more control as to where the caustics are going. Video clip was pretty cool

That is a RARE breed... I guarantee you MOST go to the home improvement stores to get their products for the deck. Good intentions or not it ends up being Thompsons or Olympic. Again all in the marketing. We all know its an inferior product yet they outsell Ready Seal or Woodtux probably 10,000 to 1. You have a unique customer if they are calling you for advice :)

Ken - I agree in the fact that Wolmans product is not up to par with others that are available however the strength of their product has some "risk based" blending to it Im sure. For several years I worked with the chemical companies that were blending the TimberPro line trying different variations and the results don't vary much in the "percarb" based formulas. I've used the ES products as well in comparison and been around the block on the surfactants, fillers, and additives. Bottom line is there's little to no difference in the results obtained from the various "commercial" products today. It all boils down to the marketing of the product. Any customer could obtain the results we get given a good product and patience however most will not desire too. It's one of those "dirty jobs" fortunately which keeps us all in business. I reiterate though - DIY products will never cost us business. Buying the product is the easy part.... using it correctly is a whole different ball game.

Ken - I agree in the fact that Wolmans product is not up to par with others that are available however the strength of their product has some "risk based" blending to it Im sure. For several years I worked with the chemical companies that were blending the TimberPro line trying different variations and the results don't vary much in the "percarb" based formulas. I've used the ES products as well in comparison and been around the block on the surfactants, fillers, and additives. Bottom line is there's little to no difference in the results obtained from the various "commercial" products today. It all boils down to the marketing of the product. Any customer could obtain the results we get given a good product and patience however most will not desire too. It's one of those "dirty jobs" fortunately which keeps us all in business. I reiterate though - DIY products will never cost us business. Buying the product is the easy part.... using it correctly is a whole different ball game.

Nice work there bud! Doors are time consuming - a little more of the perfectionist in you is forced out. We've done quite a few strips on garage doors and they always seem to eat me up financially when all is said and done. There's just no easy way to get all the paint off other than by hand (ugh!)

Our business comes from people who don't have the time or even more the desire to do this work themselves. Wolman has been selling percarb based cleaners and oxalic brighteners to the public for years - this concept isn't remotely new. They've just added to the available products. At one point I was selling direct the the public with the TimberPro products as well and those buying were going to do their own deck if it meant just pressure washing it. This opinion DIY attitude usually changes after the first or second time though :)

Run into some ol' Spa N' Deck did ya Shane?

:) Thats what I was thinking... O'l fiddo got the boot on getting the dog house done.

I'm thinking the $2800 - 3k mark myself... there's alot of PITA in the pictures :) - all semi trans. 2 tone adds in about $5 a foot on the rail.

I Gotcher' back Jon :) I see a dual comin'

You pretty much have to weigh out what works for you. If I was only doing a couple decks a month I don't think I would be ordering in ANY finish - just using a good product available locally. There's really only 2 main reasons I use Ready Seal 1. Ease of application and repair (should it rain!) ~ Fixing Wolman, Cabot or many others after a rain can turn into a strip job! Not to mention there's virtually no concern with overapplying or laps. 2. It's not readily available to the homeowner ~ 2 benefits here - one obviousely so they can't just run out and buy it but also it throws a little credibility to our service in that we're using something thats unique and perceived as a greater value. Prep the job right and heck.... CWF will give you 2 years! I just won't envy you when it comes time for maintenance :) Greg

$350 - got to make it worth your time especially if you are making two trips to complete it. Greg

Yes sir..... I agree! Everything has a price though :) We ordinarily will bid it for a strip down and sand out. Not for the fact that we necessarily want to do it by any means.... ...but its a customer that will call you back every 2 years for the recoat and in the longrun its easier on us. My goal is to make maintenance easy for customers AND myself. I nor my guys look forward to putting down latex EVER :)

We back pad everything ordinarily - even with the ready seal it helps to even everything out a bit. With regard to spraying its shurflo's with Ready Seal and airless for most other products in the line up (TimberStain UV or Wolman) Greg

We on average add 30% to the bid for any 2nd story decks requiring scaffolding or an extention ladder. We've never done a third or higher (thank god!). Your production slows big time so you have to justify the time. Scaffolding will keep you moving pretty quickly though. We just did a second story deck that was 12' in the air over a concrete pad and once the rolling scaffold is setup (20 minutes up - 20 minutes down) its as easy as a ground level deck. Greg