Pricing for Deck Cleaning only

[plainpainter 217]

I know more and more as I get into deck restoration - I am getting into stripping, cleaning, neutralizing - defurring. But I run into customers that just want to get their decks 'pressure-washed'. You know the kind of customers, they have a failing stain, and will reapply the stain themselves - they just want a good cleaning - knowing that it isn't the best route for deck maintenance. So I was going on the Delco board - and they say for just a deck washing only - charge $0.85/sq.ft. - this is floorboard square footage, not total of all handrails, stringers, skirts, etc. Well I gave an estimate for a deck that was 6 feet off the ground, 12'x40', with a small landing where the two stairways met - the total 'floor' sqaure footage - area of landing and steps. Was 570 sq. feet. So I gave an estimate of $485 to apply an application of TSP/Bleach/surfactant, possibly scrub, and rinse. Your standard pressure washing job - no thrills. Yes this deck has railings and balustrades - the whole works. Is that too much money to ask for?

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Scared to hear what Fenner will say but I think it about right. Some circles I not doubt it be way too much though considering it only take a couple hour max. At some point customer expects to see standard flat rate pressure washing rates due to their perception that the specialized expertise of a woodie is not needed. We know different though and can attest to damages done by splash and dash/blow and go/same as washing anything else type mentality..

The more you go towards restoration/construction/painting and full service in offering all in one deal the higher the premium you can get for all the individual items your offering.

With that said I would not doubt Fenner can get $120 a board..(half the price of reskinning)...haha...just kidding/but not kidding..:cup:

[plainpainter 217]

Kevin, I don't quite understand your 3rd sentence. Could you please re-edit it?

[MMI Enterprises 289]

sorry..lol..is early here..

[Jarrod 22]

.85 to $1.00 per sq. ft. is right.

[dpaull 80]

I would charge $1.00 per sq. foot, $3 per linear foot (railings), and $4 per stair, plus chemicals -- just to strip and brighten. If they're not capable of stripping though, I think they could be sold on having you stain it also...then my price doubles.

You go in too low and you're not going to feel like taking your time...then if the customer is staining it, any spot you missed, they're going to see because they'll be going over every square inch with stain lol.

[plainpainter 217]

I was just talking about washing - TSP/Bleach/surfactant - it would be a mild strip - as some material always comes off with my brew - but not like a full strip. BTW David - when you figure in square feet, are you including the skirt boards and exposed 4x4's underneath the deck, or is that included in the $3/linear feet of railings?

[PressurePros 249]

1) You can't do a partial strip unless the customer is using the same product and the stain that is down there is not in state of failure (I have yet to see that on ANY deck)

2) Rail systems are closer to 4 square feet per LF of measurement AND they are much more complicated to clean then a floor. Why would anyone charge the same, let alone less?

3) Our stain rate and our 2 step cleaning rate are about the same (output wise) so that makes the labor rates pretty close.. for me, its about $.90 per s/f (all wood not the floor) That includes materials on the cleaning and is discounted for large SF decks.

4) Height is a factor.. that should be an upcharge. I go about 10% for every 6 feet off the ground

5) Meant as no disrespect to the owners or posters of the delco board but , well.. its not a woody site.

Dan.. Dan... Dannnnnnnnnnnnnn. :banghead: You need to decide where you want to be. You cannot complian about cheap customers and not making any money and then chase jobs like this. Never, not once in over 500 deck estimates has anyoner ever asked me to just prep it. Did you sell the value and benefit of letting a professional stain it using quality products?

My question is.why would anyone want to spend more money on marketing and avdertising for customer acquisition? Do you know what your acquisition costs are for a new customer? If you don't they are much higher than you think. You are throwing away a whole job by not selling the customer on the staining. I'm not sure why some are so skittish on selling or even just marketing to the right people.

Your job.. Strip properly (which means all the stain comes off). Ph Balance/brighten: maybe $975? Tough strip where have to apply stripper direct via Shirflo? add 30%-60%. Acrylic or solid.. triple it.

I don't f--- around with people that cannot afford or want to pay for my service anymore. Every deck we do is done right and looks like professionals left the area. If we kill a plant, I buy a new one. If we spill stain on a new sealcoated driveway, I have a contractor out there the following week to redo it. This costs money. If a company continues the backwoods, I make $100 per hour mentality and then has no cash reserve to even market their business, where do you think they will end up?

That's Fenner's take on the subject.

[bigchaz 157]

Id quote the price exactly the same as a strip/stain. No half deck jobs for me

485 is way way too low. Even if I quoted cleaning as half the price of the whole works, it would still be over 800 on that deck

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Fenner never disappoints..he's like food!

Just check out his initials..KF minus the "C" .. :)

[MMI Enterprises 289]

I imagine there are some here that do prescribe to a 1-3 maintenance schedule in their business plan....where they be? surely they have something to say to fit this part: "1) You can't do a partial strip unless the customer is using the same product and the stain that is down there is not in state of failure (I have yet to see that on ANY deck)"

I question validity to be able to get away with just a cleaning after a one year mark and I will charge same price as original clean/stain if I got to do same prep and work all over again. Just can't see them calling until they need me due to failure.

[plainpainter 217]

Again Fenner comes through with his point of view, and it is true that I have to figure what I want to be. I just figured if some people want a pressure wash - why not give it to them. And I have to find more ways to weed out certain customers. This customer probably thinks I am already way too high -I just wanted a reality check. Oh well, move onto the next customer.....

[plainpainter 217]

Oh yes Ken, I added an option to strip just flooring and steps properly - the total bill would have come to $710. Leaving the railings alone with just a basic pressure cleaning. Glad to hear I am not being outrageous with my price.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

"I just figured if some people want a pressure wash "

Come on Daniel..don't give in that easy.. :) ...if customer only can afford a pressure wash your not gonna do it? I think you headed into this just fine with a good intention to price your inventory approprietly..Some probably be broke if they did not do variety of offerings. You just may have to give up the premium profits associated with being strictly a woodie..I can't see you loosing when there be money to be had..Maybe Ken is saying that Time is Money and so is yer advertising dollars...don't waste them?

[PressurePros 249]

We maintain all customers decks. Every two years horizontals get coated. I'm talking about new customers where you are called in to "pressure wash and stain". When I see it the stain is failing or failed, it has to go.

"Maybe Ken is saying that Time is Money and so is yer advertising dollars...don't waste them?"

Not really. What I am sayin is that it costs approximately X amount of dollars to acquire a new customer. That new customer spends a certain amount of money. If you don't sell the staining portion of the job, you now have to spend X amount of dollars all over again to acquire another customer to make up what you gave up. Thats not profitable and/or good business. Upselling is crucial to raise margins.

[bigchaz 157]

But you don't present the staining as an upsell do you ken? If you price it separate people then try to justify the value in doing the cleaning or staining themselves.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

We maintain all customers decks. Every two years horizontals get coated. I'm talking about new customers where you are called in to "pressure wash and stain". When I see it the stain is failing or failed, it has to go.

"Maybe Ken is saying that Time is Money and so is yer advertising dollars...don't waste them?"

Not really. What I am sayin is that it costs approximately X amount of dollars to acquire a new customer. That new customer spends a certain amount of money. If you don't sell the staining portion of the job, you now have to spend X amount of dollars all over again to acquire another customer to make up what you gave up. Thats not profitable and/or good business. Upselling is crucial to raise margins.

yea I know..just wanted to hear you say "We maintain all customers decks. Every two years horizontals get coated." ..hehe :)

But now can you elaborate what pricing you extend them when they are signed on that level. I suppose if it is your brand stain and wood not grayed at all you can get away with less work in defurring/sanding. Still needs about same amount of time for wash and stain as it did originally don't it?

3) Our stain rate and our 2 step cleaning rate are about the same (output wise) so that makes the labor rates pretty close.. for me, its about $.90 per s/f (all wood not the floor) That includes materials on the cleaning and is discounted for large SF decks.

.. does this mean yer crews spend about same time cleaning as staining and so yer at $.90 x 2 when maintaining jobs you originally did?

Upselling is crucial to raise margins.

This mainly for new customers? Existing customers are already pretty much sold on a program you designed and priced already right? If they want a housewash or drive clean then that is upsell all well and good but assume you hardly ever have to upsell anything on a deck you already into.

[PressurePros 249]

Chaz. No upsell. Like I said, I have never had a call for a half of a job. I use the term in context with this thread. Dan would be well served to upsell.

Example: Dan and I are the same price for wood care. It costs each of us $100 to acquire a new customer. Take a deck that is $1000 to clean and $1000 to stain. I spend $75 in acquisition cost and have lower operational expense to gross $2000.

Dan needs to spends $150 to get two customers to gross the same money, but also spends more in gas, uses more time and compromises his overall efficiency.

Over the course of time, Dan will get rapidly diminishing returns. My company will achieve more jobs at higher margin. With this model Dan is setting himself up for failure. I'm not picking on you, Dan just using your name as this is your thread.

The point was more about getting each customer to spend as much as they humanly can with your company. With proper evaluation, presentation and sales technique and follow up you can achieve that.

[PressurePros 249]

Malone,

No way would the job cost the same. I sell them on the value of maintenance. Once they hire PressurePros they don't have to worry about their deck. My benefit is that I don't have to spend nearly as much on marketing to keep the customer loyal. Maintenance is a quick wash with bleach and soap and a light coat on horizontals. I cannot quote here exactly what maintenance costs but is substantially less than a complete strip and restain.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

"I cannot quote here exactly what maintenance costs but is substantially less than a complete strip and restain." ..ahh but you were doing so well..haha

I luv to help give Fenner these chances to elaborate more...he really seems to enjoy his outings :)

pssst... I expect a xmas card with big bonus this year Ken..

[bigchaz 157]

Ive heard anywhere from 40 to 70 percent on maintenance coats. Guess it would depend on horizontals and/or verts, or both

You in that range Ken? or lower for just horizontals?

[plainpainter 217]

Ken is actually right on target about it costing $100/customer. I didn't think of that. But I am getting maybe 3 new customerss per $300 of advertizing. My last customer - I sold them on a $200 house wash and $75 gutter clean. So really I am only making $175 - but it is a one level ranch.

[PressurePros 249]

Ken is actually right on target about it costing $100/customer. I didn't think of that. But I am getting maybe 3 new customerss per $300 of advertizing. My last customer - I sold them on a $200 house wash and $75 gutter clean. So really I am only making $175 - but it is a one level ranch.

$175

-$15 (gas and chems)

-$30 liability insurance

-$25 vehicle/rig depreciation

-$40 other indirect costs (phone, etc)

-----

$65 net. Your company should get at least 20% if you have the slightest hope for growth. So Dan's salary is $52. How long is that job gonna take you, Dan?

Great job on the upsell of the gutters but I hope anyone reading this is starting to see that pricing jobs at $150, $200, $250 unless you are doing five of those per day, every day, six days per week you will be out of business.

I am seeing so many guys getting excited about the roof cleaning "boom" and then they talk about jobs they are doing for $250. When that bubble of realization burts, there will be yet another category in the pressure washing field that will be plagued by lowballers and customers that perceive no value.

[yazbird8 17]

Your bank account will let you know if your making any money....What do you have in it now?...What did you have in it 3 months ago?.......If you are not increasing your monthly balance by at least what you will need to get through the winter (northern guys) then you are in trouble unless you have another source of income coming in.....Thats a bit simplistic but it's a good indicator for me....I was able to put an extra 10k into my account (after expenses) in May and June which tells me I am going in the right direction......I would suggest that you figure out what your personal numbers need to be to build your account up and then strive to always better those numbers....Like Ken said, you have to go out of your way to try and retain your cutomers because thats where your true future in this business is...Do what you can do now to fill up next seasons schedule with repeat business from customers who aren't afraid to open their wallets for professional results..... My target market is to upper end incomes only so I know what I'm getting............Oh ya, referals are another important part of the equation....If you do super work and super customer service then the referals will just come.....No advertising dollars there.....

YAZ

Stephen Andrews

Power Washing

Home & Property

Care & Maintenance

[plainpainter 217]

I should be at that job for one 1 hour, Ken. I wish there was someone like you informing all the painting contractors in my area - if you think that money is bad that I just quoted. I can get undercut - even if I bill out customers at $25/hr for house painting- basically not getting much better than a $12 salary, in true terms! And perhaps an extra couple of bucks profit on a fellow worker making $12/hr. And I can get undercut at those wages! And that's getting up on 40 foot ladders, scraping grinding - climbing around dormers on high roofs!

Anyways - I agree with Ken about upselling. I would actually call it educating the customer as well. You know those roof oil runs on gutters that we need caustics to clean? Well this customer thought it was mildew! Can you imagine if you did what the customer 'wanted' and just gave them a house wash - and after the job is done, with all dirt and mildew gone - that the 'runs' are still there but now more apparent? What then do you think the customer will think? Educate, Educate, Upsell!

[PressurePros 249]

I know Dan.. painting is filled with the same mentalities as pressure washing. 90% of the guys out there aren't businessmen, they are hard working guys with intentions and dreams of being self employed. Unfortunately that means 90% of these guys have no clue what they are doing in terms of pricing, monitoring or growing their business. Oddly enough, the rate of startup failure/abandon (after 5 years) is also 90%.

When I started in this end of the business I knew what was going on and chose to steer cleer of the run-of-the-mill antics of most PW owners. I hope you can do the same, Dan. Do whatever it takes to make yourself stand out. Don't worry what anyone else charges. I don't care what state someone is in.. Charging less than $350 for a two story housewash is ridiculous. It tells the customer you have no confidence in yourself, your company or your abilities. Market to people who care about quality.

Take on small, underpriced jobs to put food on the table and five years from now that kind of job will be your number one referral. Then you'll be an incredibly busy, overly stressed person instead of just a broke one.

I hope someone is reading this and understanding what I am saying. This isn't about your model versus Ken's model nor is it about lifestyle. Its about understanding your numbers and devising a plan that will make owning a business pleasurable and sustaining while providing security for yuorself and your family.