New Home Clean Up

[John Doherty 126]

Hello Folks,

I have a quick question. We PW for several large home builders and have been asked to do the pre-walk/close clean up as well. Stayed away from it in the past as we didn't want to get into additional employees.

My inlaws are getting a little long of tooth and need to get into something a little less stenuous then laying carpet.

Does anyone have a checklist that covers the aspects of what needs to be cleaned? Interior only as they use labor for lot picks etc.

Any assistance appreciated.

Thanks,

JD

[Paul B. 523]

First and foremost, WELCOME to the BB - JD!

Does anyone have a checklist that covers the aspects of what needs to be cleaned? Interior only as they use labor for lot picks etc.

I would suggest you establish the exact requirements and expectations with the general contractor as this type of work can vary from builder to builder. Some have more stringent requirements than others and most are cost focused.

If at all possible, look at some of the homes before and after clean-up to see what is normally exceptable for the GC.

As a general rule: They will pay the least to get the job done and expect the most. In most cases they alrady have a set budget.

If you are looking for a "general" list it would include:

- Windows (inside/outside), remove protectors and clean as necessary, window sills;

- Doors;

- Window and door mouldings;

- May include walls if scuffed and can be cleaned;

- Floors (hardwood, tile and carpeting);

- Bathrooms (bathtub, toilet, sink, floor, cabinets, fixtures, windows;

- Kitchen (cabinets, sink, counter, splash plates, tiles,

- Laundry room, bedrooms, closets

- Basements- Fixtures (lights, ceiling fans, etc.)

- Cabinets (exterior and interior)

- Removing paint drips, construction dust / dirt, foot prints, hand prints, etc.

[bill3752 14]

Cleaning fixtures (including ceiling fans, etc.) tend to take some time.

Paul, what would you normally charge for this type of cleaning - i.e. how many cents per sq ft?

[Paul B. 523]

Hello Bill,

Been a long time. Welcome to the BB.

I hope your purchase/expansion has been rewarding.

I never got into interior clean-up. I couldn't handle having that many bosses (women) on a job and some of the conversations they have, could make even a sailor blush (I got my first Baptism as production engineer at USPL/Corning). Anyway, my sister in-law owned a maid service for about 15 years before I helped her get into new construction cleaning (she never forgave me). The business is no longer in the family since she passed - no one else was interested in "real" work.

If I remember correctly, the exterior window cleaning was a separate line item. Interior windows were included unless they had the glass house look (as some of the customs do).

I believe her standard sq ft rate included 1 or 1.2 windows per 100 sq ft. (I don't remember her ever saying she had any issues over windows.) Don't quote me on this, but I believe she was in the $0.24-$0.26 per sq ft range on production and about $0.28-$0.30 on the custom homes.

I don't think light fixtures and ceiling fans got a spit shine, but they were expected to look good from the ground. Bathroom and kitchen sinks and related fixtures were to be spotless, along with any mirrors.

Coming from the maid service industry, these folks could spit out homes after they learned how to remove paint overspray and drips. Women have more patience and dexterity - they can run circles around men on this type of work.

[John Doherty 126]

Thanks for the welcome and the info.

[bill3752 14]

Paul, thanks for the info. I am guessing that we could only get 16-17 cents per sq ft. I can't make enough at that price. I am thinking that pricing across the board is much lower here in Ky, compared to yours in Ohio. Also, you are correct about the women being very good at this type of work.

[Paul B. 523]

Bill,

I think 16-17 cents per sq. ft. would be very tight to start into.

Good, dependable help and a large contract would be a nice start.

At $0.17, you need to be able to clean a 3000 sq. ft. home with 4 people in MINIMUM 5 hours, which would get you a bill-out of $25.5 per hour (not ideal). The ideal clean time would be 4 hours or under which would bump your bill-out to almost $32.

Once you get into it full swing, your marketing costs are almost ZERO; your equipment costs are very low; supplies are your 2nd highest expenditures on top of labor.

[Paul B. 523]

I understand this type of cleaning can run as low as $0.12 per sq. ft. (very low end). A couple of locals in my area are in the $0.18 to $0.23 range.

As I understand a 2000 sq. ft. home generally takes about 4-5 hours for 2 people.

One of my contacts tells me that there is a decent BB for Cleaning Services at the NAPC (National Association of Profassional Cleaners) www.cleaningassociation.com/forum/

Here are a couple of general lists that I found for new construction interior cleaning. As you can see, the lists vary, but the final approval will always come from the "Builder" or "G.C."

List "A"

- Whole House: Vacuum, clean tile floors, clean all wood floors, clean all light fixtures, vacuum heating/cooling vents to remove dust, wipe down baseboards

- Bathrooms: Clean sinks, showers, tubs and toilets, remove labels, clean mirrors, polish surfaces, clean floors

- Kitchens: Clean inside cabinets/drawers, wipe down cabinet facings, clean all appliances, clean countertops, clean and polish sinks, clean floors, polish all glass surfaces

- Windows: Remove labels, vacuum window tracks, clean inside/outside, clean window frames

List "B"

- Bathrooms: Vanity lights, mirrors, medicine cabinets, electrical plates, sinks, counter tops, cabinets, drawers, under those drawers, tile, window frames and window tracks, bathtubs, toilets, doors, baseboards, chair railings and exhaust fans. We remove any excess construction caulking and any product stickers. Finally, we polish all stainless steel, sweep and mop floors.

- Bedrooms, Hallways and Stairs: Doors, door frames, baseboards, chair railings, window tracks, window frames, remove dust seals from smoke detectors (entire home), vacuum out heater vents, vacuum carpet wall to wall, clean lights, electrical plates and wipe down stair rails.

- Kitchens: Lights, inside cabinets, pull all drawers (clean all surfaces including underneath), wipe down all appliances, window tracks and frames, baseboards, chair railings, clean exhaust fans, remove excess construction caulking, vacuum out heat vents and clean floors wall to wall.

All Other Rooms: Clean chandeliers, lights, tracks, frames, fireplaces, doors, door frames, baseboards, chair railings, electrical plates, vacuum heat vents, wipe down heating cold air return, vacuum all carpets wall to wall, clean mirrors, clean cabinet tops, sweep and dust mop all hardwood floors with our wood floor cleaner.

[Celeste 341]

We are doing the interior final cleans (in NC area). List B is pretty accurate. One builder pays us .15/sq ft + $6/window. We upcharge $25 for excessive drywall, excessive paint, excessive trash (if if happens) We get average of 1 house per week, 1300 sq ft takes 2 of us about 4 hours. Our very large contract (signed for 8-10 years) pays .12 / sq ft - nothing for windows (in the middle of re-negotiating this though). Houses range from 1500 - 3500 sq ft with bookoodles of windows. Quantity reigns with this contract though since it is for 4-5 houses per week as well as all of the pressure washing. Women may have the cleaning gene but my husband kicks butt on windows.

It's pretty rough work (or it can be) but the weather doesn't mess you up much and if the work is consistent - hey the bills get paid!!!

Best of luck,

Celeste

[Celeste 341]

Another thing to consider on employees - cleaning interiors requires nothing more than someone wanting to work. Temp agencies can prevent payroll issues that some smaller companies don't want to mess with. When you find one that really gets it, offer to hire then if you find you will continue to need steady help, otherwise, work until you about drop and then call in reinforcements :)

Celeste

[Paul B. 523]

Celeste,

I hope you folks put some provisions into that long term contract to protect yourselves, such as the ability to adjust prices or the ability to terminate it with notice ($0.12 could be half of what you could be making in 5 years thru another contract or inflation).

You want the contract to be mutually beneficial.

[Celeste 341]

Paul, their contract was about 40 pages long - it covers virtually everything. We have already had to renegotiate our price as what they represented was not accurate. Thus far, they seem very willing to work with us. My main concern of the contract though is the out clause - which is there. Right now this is a great safety net since we are just starting out. I'm living on these boards looking for ways to make the pay worthwhile!!

Celeste

[Paul B. 523]

Make sure you understand ALL of THEIR contract so it is a balanced contract for BOTH parties.

Your efficiencies can make or break your profits on large deals.

For example, being able to have access to more than one house per day, how you route your staff, dependability of your staff, etc.

Always look for work processes you can improve on (staff may have some good input from time to time). Some people are also better at doing certain things, recognizing these will provide you with an edge (unlike military thinking - if you are a cook, will make you a medic).

I would also look for a clause in the contract that stipulates hourly compensation if you can't start or continue a job due to THEIR scheduling conflicts (they schedule other workers in the same area you are working in). or ...What if power is not available, what if water is not available, what if the doors are locked and you can't get hold of the GC.

Well, I'm sure you both have thought about all those things - I was more or less thinking out loud for the benefit of others.

[Celeste 341]

Excellent points Paul - There are issues lacking in their contract (clearly it is for their benefit above all others) and we are addressing everything at one time next week. For example, the main office, the construction (scheduling) office and the sales office in this development - none know what the other is doing. We scheduled cleaning the exteriors of 4 houses today (all requiring some acid work) because the construction office wanted it today. We had realtors and potential buyers ALL OVER THE PLACE - walking through our blockades because they couldn't drive through them (I mentioned acid and they beat a very hasty retreat), but this traffic slowed our progress down. Realtors are now pissed off because we prevented them from showing the homes - contractor is going to be pissed on Monday am because work is incomplete. 6:00 pm on Saturday when no one in the management position is going to answer my calls was IT for me. We shut down. If the right hand, left hand and rear end of this operation can't get themselves coordinated - we will begin charging for fouling up our schedule. GGGGGRRRRRRRR....thanks for letting me vent.

Truly this is a great opportunity for us - we are so new and to have landed an exclusive contract this large. We should easily have 2 houses per day interior, maybe 3-4 per week (but all in one day) to pressure wash so even with all of these, we'll have time for what we really want to do, which is to preserve and refinish decks!

I'm sure we'll be getting more efficient with every house and we'll be open to any suggestions we can get and will have no problem sharing any shortcuts we come across :)

Celeste

[Paul B. 523]

Make sure you bend the super's ear on those issues. Let them know that your time is money and in the future you want to get compensated for your time. They'll respect you for that.

They have you cleaning the bricks fairly late in the game aren't they?

Don't let them slide you more than 30 days past the finish of the masonry work. I try to get us there shortly after 7 days (after the mortar joints have cured). Winter does throw a wrench in that schedule a lot because the masons will work in the cold, but you can't effectively wash below 40F. But then, you folks probably don't have that problem too often in your neck of the woods.

[Celeste 341]

I wish we didn't have to worry about temps - here in the Carolinas we routinely drop below 30 degrees from about mid-November until mid-March. As to your other question....yes they had these washed very late in the game, another point that will be brought up this week. Since we had already done the interiors of these houses (including the window tracks), during our re-clean, we'll have to clean the tracks again from the pressure washing.

This is a new kind of development concept for around here and there are still many bugs to be worked out. These particular four houses are the model homes and scheduling has been beyond the normal house for sale. We had to clean a little earlier in the process because the designers and furniture had to be put in - the weather has delayed other work being completed. My personal opinion is that winter is not the optimal time for them to be trying to do this. Pressure washers are not the only tradesman to be affected by cold weather - can't pour concrete, can't paint and if those two aren't complete, CAN'T PRESSURE WASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On the upside, we didn't have to worry about any landscaping around these houses :)

Celeste

[bill3752 14]

We clean a ton of brick, and we routinely run into the types of problems you have described. My best people are ones that work well with other subs, so that they can work around each other. Our most frequent problem is water supply. Good luck.

[John Doherty 126]

Many, many excellent points, we do tons of new home PW, about 1000 this year. Some things to consider on model homes, sales and production usually don't communicate well, so think for them.

Models are there to showcase the work and the sales folks get upset if anyone gets turned away, if you're doing a model or spec you must do it on a weekday and as early in the morning as possible. The sales side generally has no budget from the builder so they rely on the production side to schedule etc. When someone from production asks you to work at a model or spec keep the time in mind for them and sched accordingly.

As far as the contract goes here's how we break out the rates.

Regular wash (all flat work etc), Re-wash at a discount as this is real quick and easy, rare and usally if the landscapers or another trade has made a mess or a contract gets cancelled and the home sits around for a while. Model wash, exterior flat work only no garage, this is maint only and at a lower rate then re-wash as we pass some savings (profit) because there are usually 4 or 5 all in a row. We put them on a schedule of once every 8 weeks.

Stain clean, an hourly rate w/a 1 hr minimum, usually some idiot parks on the driveway and leaks, usually takes about 20 mins.

Hourly add on for excessive paint spills etc. If say the painters use no drop cloths and cleaning up takes more than an additional 30 mins on the job, builders usually have a charge back mechanism and bill it to the offending trade. If you're going to have an exclusive and the painters are consistantly sloppy, take the time to talk to the paint co boss and let them know about it, and never try to charge this without letting the supe see it first. One charge back and the painters will be more careful, but as I said talk to them first.

Tank fee, our agreements are that the builders supply the water, if the house isn't metered and we have to go to another over 200' away we charge for the lost time. (Have never charged this but once the guys in the field knew about it, it wasn't a problem). One tip, NEVER turn water on at the street meter or inside the house, let them do it. Our thought is if it's turned off it's for a reason. (Flood stories for another day).

Trip charge, if we're only doing one home and we get cancelled due to another trade scheduled. Again, never charged it but the guys in the field never want this or the tank fee to be charged because it makes them look disorganised to the bosses, if they know it's there they pay closer attention.

Some of these are obviously penalty fees, we don't generally charge them but it's important to let them know about them so you don't lose money. Diplomacy goes a long way on these things and I've only met a few guys who didn't understand we work to make money and their or others poor planning or errors cost us money.

Good Luck,

JD

[Paul B. 523]

Good points JD!

Your last paragraph:

"Some of these are obviously penalty fees, we don't generally charge them but it's important to let them know about them so you don't lose money. Diplomacy goes a long way on these things and I've only met a few guys who didn't understand we work to make money and their or others poor planning or errors cost us money."

drives home the importance of having specifics in the contract, letting the folks in the field know it's there, the importance of communications and using good judgement to keep a good relationship from going bad or helping a not so good relationship get better.