A perfect stain....

[plainpainter 217]

You know that elusive concept of a 'perfect' paint or stain. It comes up in conversation from time to time, when contractors remember how good a certain product use to be. In the painting world a perfect trim paint was oil based paints prior to the 80's - Benjamin Moore was considered a perfect house paint 15-20 years ago - not that they're bad now. But there is always a product and period of time it existed that gives it this 'perfect' status. Even on this forum - as bad as ATO is now, everyone always goes back to the memory of ATO as being a standard in decking stain excellence back when it was a good product. So my question is, do any of you have a 'perfect' stain in your arsenal now? And if not - what do think of as a perfect stain in your opinion - a certain brand and time frame when it was excellent - it had all or pretty close to all the attributes that you wanted and if they could just go back to selling that formula again - everything in the world would be right again.

[PressurePros 249]

Dan, I cannot answer your question becuase I have never experienced one. Now a large portion of that reasoning is because I wasn't around doing this in the 80's and 90's. Every product I have tried from RS to WT to all the commercial offerings have had deficiencies. It also depends upon whom you ask. Being able to stay on schedule (ie apply to wet wood) is more important to me than having ease of use. But yet, ease of use is a factor because people other than myself are applying it and I need some implement of quality control built into the product. I'm sure you see where I am going with this train of thought.

Perhaps a more relevant question to toss into this mix would be "What are contractors willing to pay for a near perfect product?". I don't doubt that Cabot's or SW could make an awesome product for us to use but could I afford to use it? The VOC restrictions and our need for an oil/alkyd formula sets a high bar for the major manufacturers. There is going to be trade-off of some criteria. There has to be. I cannot afford to use a $60 per gallon product. If I came up, via a coatings chemist, what I considered a "perfect" formulation, is that product going to be perfect for everyone?

I'm not trying to steal or hijack your thread here, Dan but maybe if some woodies could make a list of what is most important to them in a staining product, someone can move forward and make something we need as contractors. Here is my dream product:

1. Oil/alkyd based

2. Thorough curing to lock in fungicide

3. Wet wood friendly

4. A two year duration on horizontal surfaces without absolute product failure.

5. Maintenance friendly

6. An even finish that makes customers happy they hired a pro.

[plainpainter 217]

Hijack away Ken. I will try and answer your question as well - but I think we are both asking the same question. Basically what makes a 'perfect' stain for folks is a set of criteria like you listed. For me - I want a stain that is forgiving in terms of uneven application. I think deep penetrating - as good as it sounds on paper, sometimes leaves blotchy results. Some stains penetrate too well - and when you come back a few days later - you see areas where it dived so much, that it no longer exists anywhere near the top and other places where it is fine. Too me woodtux seems to be problematic, especially on softer woods - that's why I have had to adopt the 'drenching' technique then brush out - but even then it wasn't 100% right sometimes. I want a stain to be really tough, especially on treads, I don't want to see wear. When I brush a stain - I don't want one that is 'oily' in consistency for lack of a better term. I want it to be reisistant to flashing and lap marks. I want to be able to pick up a guy from labor-ready and have him working the same day. I want the color to be vibrant and last a long time. Resistance to mildew. I'd actually like a lambswool roller be able to lay on the perfect coat - and have it level and suck into the wood without any additional backbrushing. And be assured of even appearance - and just a beautiful finish that will take recoats for quite some time. And I would like a product that spells out exactly what to do for brand spanking new wood prep. This is a grey area for me - I want to be able to approach a customer on their beautifully brand new erected ipe deck with Fir balusters - and just stain, and not have to explain that it has to be 'aged' via a 2 step process. Or that I have to put on a 'sacrificial' coating that will need to be stripped a year later and then have the 'real' coating applied.