Gutter Zap

[badger11 14]

I am going to start a house washing business this spring. I am looking for the best chemicals to use for vinyl siding and gutters. From my research I am trying to choose between using 1 1/2 gallons of clorox bleach {ultra} approx 2-3 cups of Liquid Tide or Limonene. I am also looking for the best gutter cleaner available. I have heard gutter zap is very good. What are your thoughts.

Thanks!!!!

[RyanH 14]

http://www.xterior.com/html/_chemicals_1.html

[Paul B. 523]

Gutter Zap at www.SunBriteSupply.com Tracy Handl (866) 537-2748 x22

Gutter Zap at www.Xterior.com

SunBrite also sells "All Brite" which is good/inexpensive non-butyl detergent for house siding washing.

Limonene at www.EnviroSpec.com - they are having a SALE until the end of March on their chemicals and parts such as QD fittings.

[Cleveland Mobile 14]

I was never impressed by the tide formulas.......I do mix all my own cleaners and none of them have tide in them......Any cleaner will work better with hot water and anything with butyl in it will clean gutters with cold water. I have never had to scrup a gutter...I apply at 30 to 1 and rinse.

Andy

[RyanH 14]

I apply degreaser at 100% strength and allow a dwell time of about 15 - 20 seconds, then rinse off with. I have only had problems on two houses. One had painted over the streaks at one point, so they weren't coming clean. On the other, the paint flaked off on the bottom of the gutters, but, judging from the pattern of the flakes and comparing to the rest of the house, I think it was because the gutters were painted just before it rained (whenever they were painted years ago) and the paint was weak on the bottom area.

[badger11 14]

Thanks for the info. I sure do appreciate you guys sharing your knowledge with me. For those of you in Ohio what time of year do you start to advertise. I am thinking the middle of April would be the time to start advertising for house washing work.

[CompletelyClean 14]

I have NEVER been able to get white gutters clean w/o scrubbing! I'm beginning to think it's a myth to get those black streaks off by spraying with chem and rinsing (without taking the paint off, mind you). I have a Sodium Hydroxide based degreaser that will do just that...take streaks off, along with paint. I discovered this on a small area of gutter and had to come back with a can of white semi-gloss spray paint

I have tried All Brite (phhbbbttt), I have tried diluted HF acid (phhbbbttt AND dangerous), and I have tried COUNTLESS other recipes from other boards. So, PLEASE tell me what to use to spray on, let dwell, and rinse off that will SATISFACTORILY get those streaks off.

Also, what's your favorite house mix for vinyl siding? I've used Emulsifier Plus/bleach mix with so-so results.

[CompletelyClean 14]

Not sure why that little sad/angry emoticon popped up at the top of my previous post. Sorry.

[Aplus 525]

I'm not a fan of using liquid Tide either. I think it was originally included in a house wash mix to create suds which help increase dwell on vertical surfaces. However, most laundry detergent is designed "to not" create a lot of suds. Dishwashing soap may be more appropriate to increase dwell time.

I use Emulsifier Plus and liquid pool chlorine. Works great for me, but I had to fiddle with the recipe for a bit to obtain the results I was looking for.

You have to be careful with what you use, because windows, polished brass, and bare aluminum can all be damaged faster than you may think, especially on hot days, and when you are working alone. And don't forget about the potential for overspray....wind can carry sprayed chems 50 feet or more with ease. So the neighbors cars, lawn furniture, etc can easily be damaged.

There are many products available that were specifically formulated to wash houses. Why not use what's available? A one chem fits all approach is usually not the best approach.

It's important to consider that the water condition in your area is probably the single biggest factor to consider when mixing up a recipe that works for you. The harder the water, the more chems you will need, and likely the less satisfactory results you will see.

[CompletelyClean 14]

I'm not a fan of using liquid Tide either. I think it was originally included in a house wash mix to create suds which help increase dwell on vertical surfaces. However, most laundry detergent is designed "to not" create a lot of suds. Dishwashing soap may be more appropriate to increase dwell time.

I use Emulsifier Plus and liquid pool chlorine. Works great for me, but I had to fiddle with the recipe for a bit to obtain the results I was looking for.

It's important to consider that the water condition in your area is probably the single biggest factor to consider when mixing up a recipe that works for you. The harder the water, the more chems you will need, and likely the less satisfactory results you will see.

Which is exactly why I have a water softener on my rig.

Tony, what is your opinion on gutter cleaning? Do you have a chem that takes streaks off white gutters w/o brushing?

[Aplus 525]

Bryan,

I agree, softened water is nice to have. For me, however, it would not be practical for the way I do my work. You know how I prefer portable units on many jobs due to the required mobility.

We here in lower Michigan enjoy some of the best "city" water in the whole country. Compared to other areas of the country, our water is very usable right out of the tap.

I was just down in southern Florida, and their water is horrible compared to ours. I could notice how much longer it took to rinse things, like dishes, and even while showering, I felt like the soap was hard to rinse off, to feel 'squeeky clean'. And it tasted like chlorine.

Water treatment down there would make a bigger improvement than what we see here. If I washed vehicles, I'd be more concerned about whether I left water spots, and a softener and D-I system would be appropriate.

For me right now, I'll take DEEtroit water right out of the tap.

As for black streaks......well, sometimes gutterw will come clean from spraying alone, but most times they require at least a little brushing. There's a line when mixing the chems where if the mix is too strong, it could do more harm than good. Like take paint off, or damage metals. Rather than take that chance, I'm ok with having to provide light brushing. Basically just move the cleaner around a bit, not actually scrubbing. Sometimes scrubbing is required, no way around it.

There are two ways to approach a job.....FAST, or HALF-FASSED. The right way is not always the fastest, or least expensive. Writing from experience here.....I do not feel there is one solution to all problems. The key here is having experience to know how to deal with each situation or problem in the most effective way. Not all surfaces are cleaned the same way. If I have to brush something, that's ok, because at least I know it will be clean and will not be damaged when I'm done. Brushing is an unfortunate fact of this trade.....sometimes you have to do it.

[Paul B. 523]

Why do you wash your clothes in Tide? Because it's too cold out-Tide! (Bahahahaha)

Bryan,

When washing the gutters, do you pre-wet it first?

With some products, such as AllBrite, pre-wetting works AGAINST you.

and

Are you having problems removing the streaks all the time?

When air and surface temperatures are lower, as in the 50's and low 60's, some chemicals will not clean as effectively as in higher temperatures.

I'll state the somewhat obvious here:

If the chemical is removing paint, then your mix ratio is either too strong, or altogether inappropriate for cleaning painted surfaces.

As Tony said, there is a fine line (or mix ratio) between cleaning and stripping when using a Sodium Hydroxide based solution. Most solutions containing above 1% Sodium Hydroxide will start stripping paint. Testing different concentrations on small areas will minimize your potential for damage.

I've had success with several products including AllBrite; Krud Kutter; Gutter Zap; and G.......... by spraying only. But there are always applications that may require brushing, be it hard water, cold temperatures or stubborn streaks. I've found that by foaming the solution, it has better hang time when spraying and therefore generally cleans streaks better without brushing.

[badger11 14]

It seems that there is a lot of discrepancy in the power washing business as to the chemicals used and application of them. I can only assume that there are some that offer advice on chemicals that are not qualified to offer good advice. Either a chemical or combination of chemicals work or they don’t. I have seen on forum posts where multiple people say that they use a product and that it is the best for a job and that they have tried other products that do not work well or at all. Then I see on other forum posts the opposite opinions on the same products. Does not make sense to me. I will simply have to try multiple products and see with my own eyes as to what products to use.

Ronald Reagan once said, “Trust but verify”

[Aplus 525]

Badger,

Really that's the best approach to take. There are too many different factors involved in different regions of the country.

Many suppliers will send you small samples to test with before you commit to purchasing larger quantities.

[CompletelyClean 14]

I can honestly say that what Badger said, is and has been THE most frustrating part of this businss for me...chemicals and advice on what, when, and where to use them.

"Mix your own", "Use HF acid on EVERYTHING", "Use bleach on wood", "NEVER use bleach on wood!" AAACCKKKKK!!!!!!

I love the sales. I love the work. I hate trying to figure out what chems to use!!! That is a HUGE cost factor when starting up...all the money spent on different chems, and Tony, I have yet to receive any free samples, from other than Beth, and have always requested them.

[Cleveland Mobile 14]

You must use an alkaline on gutters....hf or any acid will not work....nor will it cut oil. I have never had to scrup a gutter....if you are...you're using the wrong soaps.

Andy

[Aplus 525]

Bryan,

I subscribe to a mag called "Cleaner Times". It is devoted to the power wash industry.

In the back of the mag where the vendors advertise, there are chemical companies that offer free samples. I have had at least two companies provide samples.

If you can't get samples, then buy a smaller quantity for testing purposes before committing to a larger quantity.

[ron p 500]

chem's are far less confuseing when you understand the compisition of them and how/why they work.

95% of stripper's are LYE or have a high percentage of lye.[lye has meny name's]

Lye eat's paint.

If you get the right delution and dwell you can strip off a tiny layer of paint and leave a new surface. This is basicly how your best [no-touch] gutter cleaner's work. They also have buffer's,thing's to increase dwell time's, and other cleaner's in the mix.

As far as the streak's on sideing, they were there before you washed the house.

Now that you have washed away the oxidised coating of protection.[formed by oil from the plastic and dirt] you have exsposed it. You will find that the sideing on that side will become chaulky in less then a year. It was neglected too long. Sideing IS NOT MAINT FREE nor is ANY DECK. As a matter of fact nothing is maint free. Even your maint free battery in your car need's the terminal's cleaned once a year.

Wash with the "grain"[with the overlap's],dont shoot water directly at soffit's,outlet's,light's,ect... dont use a x-jet type shooter at a close angle to the sideing, it will go up into the weep's. Allway's rinse the glass first, Allway's rinse glass a min of three times. Never use a x-jet type shooter without the use of a mask and google's. We are not dealing with everyday chem's where most people's exspouser limit's are min. We use heavy concentration's and exsposed to over 1000% of the average person.

Misted bleach-other then a quick sniff by the washing machine, most people would never get anything more then that. Think about that.

Tide was designed to break down dirt. Then keep is suspended so the rinse water can remove it. It was also designed to do this for FABRIC not plastic. I see no harm in useing it but agree that citric based cleaner's out prefoarm the laundry soap's in house washing. Soap sud's help keep free dirt suspended and the foaming action also help's to lift dirt.

If you never tried a foamer to wash a house, maybe you should.

Nothing more impressive then a ton of sud's caked to the side of the house.

Tip, add scented car wax to your mix and spend the extra $ on scented bleach.

citrus is the best.

Lastly, if you feel that to meny small guy's are takeing your customer's then do more then them.

Do the INSIDE of the gutter's. Open the sreen/storm door and wash both side's.

Wash the step's and porch. Go back with a micro-fiber towel and wipe off the glass you can easyily walk up to. Wash the curb in front of the house.

In short worry about doing a good job and not about makeing sure your makeing $80 per hour. Charge a fair price for excellent work and you will allway's be busy.