Price/Sq. Ft.

[svp07 14]

I was just looking for some input on prices for the following services by the sq. ft.:

1. clean and brighten

2. strip and brighten

I have looked through most of the old threads and have found nothing that breaks it down. The reason I am asking is that for the decks I have lined up I am doing the prep work and my father is doing the staining and he usually bills by the hour. I was thinking to clean and brighten .50 sq. ft. and to strip and brighten .70 sq. ft. I think the prices may be a little high but don't know, I live in an expensive part of the country.

Thanks.

[PressurePros 249]

You're not high. How big is the deck? I don't even bother with "cleaning and brightening". If you are restaining a deck you probably should strip it to bare wood anyway. If a deck is not in need of restaining then the customer doesn't need a contractor. Some Cabot's Problem solver, a brush and a garden hose are all they need. Of course, I am happy to do it if the customer is willing to pay for my time. To your original question.. From start to finish I charge $1.60 a square foot plus $3 a linear foot of railing,plus $10 per step, plus the price of stain. So on a 20x20 square deck I will come in at about $950. To get the bid I might round down to $895.00. It would take me about 7-9 hours of labor for the whole project including stripping every part of the deck (underrails and support structure), Sanding all the handrails (and floor if need be), fixing popped nails, and hand rubbing stain. I know there are guys that can do this in probably 2/3 of the time...great! they make more per hour...If they lower their rates because their expertise has improved they are just bad businessmen IMHO.

Take out the staining your number of $.70 is a little low but in the ballpark. Best of luck to you, Steve..hope all works out for you. (sorry about the diatribe, rough day)

[Everett Abrams 501]

Actually, these prices are extremely low. To understand better you should account for all your costs, it doesn't matter the price at this point. Figure your time on the phone, your stationary and office supplies on the estimate, the business cards, the gas to the estimate and then each time out, chems, stain/sealer, supplies, insurance, any marketing, etc. add all this up per job and at $.50/sq.ft. you will be out of business by winter. Your prices are at least half of what they should be but, you need to get a handle on your true costs. This is a very important piece that many overlook when getting started or identifying areas of opportunity.

[seymore 90]

I wish i could get those higher prices like you guys up on the east coast and other parts of the country.

I guess being in a higher coast of living so the price fits the economy?

A lot of my jobs are customer referals so i don't have to haggle on price.

Depending on the dificulty of the job to be cleaned is how i base my cleaning charge.Staining I do pretty good at .60 sqft. for decks here in Tx.

I've also found out being good at what you do justifies the bill at the end of the day.

Everett is right i've seen a few companies go under and sell out in no time.Seeing them drive up to a job site in a Hummer had to have something to do with it also.

[svp07 14]

The deck that I need to strip is est. to be 1150 sq ft., that includes the rails. If I just strip it at .70 sq ft that will be $800 just for the stripping; then another $1000 for the staining (my father would be doing that)?

Is that about right?

[the_GUNN_man 14]

I am live in West Michigan and can get nowhere near those prices. For a strip and brighten you will be lucky to get 35 cents a sq ft. Anything more and you will be turned away every time. I only get 35 cents a sq ft to stain on top of it. I spell it out exactly what they get for the price. I don't do any sanding and the stain I use is from Home Depot. I give them the choice of a better quailty stain (such as Ready Seal or Wood Tux) but in 4 years only one wanted it. I cannot compete with all these guys around my area washing decks with bleach and water. That is all they use to strip most decks, they do not netrualize, and if all the previous sealer/stain doesn't come off they go right over the top of it. It is sad how crappy those decks look. I tried to stick to 50 cents for strip and brighten for about 6 months and did not get a single deck. At 35 cents I get about 1/3 of the decks I bid on. Sad to say but I have to cut corners to get a piece of the work. At 35 cents I can still make about $75 an hour. I know a lot of you would say you wouldn't touch a deck for those prices but it is take it at 35 cents or just don't do any. What can you do? You can explain til your blue in the face and these people don't care. I even put out DVD's of us working and they don't care. The guys around here will wash decks for under 25 a sq. ft. and use Thompsons water seal and call it good. I use good cleaning chems but have to skimp on the stain. On the other hand, car lots and new construction brick around here pays good. I get $2.50 to $4.00 per car on a lot to where as a lot of guys get $1 to $2. New construction brick I get anywhere from 35 cents a sq. ft to 55 cents a sq. ft. Mostly right around 40 cents thoough, any lift and brick acid is seperate(extra). Also guys around here wash mobile homes for $40. I am charge at least $85. I can do a mobile home though in under 40 minutes. I wish I got what you guys do for decks. The thing I hear all the time is people tell me they would just buy a new deck then to spend over a $1000 for a strip and stain. If I am asking $1000 and the next guy says he will do it for $200, how can you compete? They look at me like I am a rip off. I had one guy look at an estimate, look back at me and say in a rather pissed off voice, " Get out of here" turn and walk away. Not "get out of here" as in I was joking but as in leave.

[svp07 14]

Hey Steve,

Just as an off topic question what is the average house worth and what are taxes on that house; no modile homes in my neck of the woods?

Anyone else care to comment on my est. prices above, please?

[Paul B. 523]

We are in a similar situation in the Cincinnati area (as Steve) with the majority of customers being unappreciative of high quality deck work. The quality is less important in majority of cases as the customer expects to spend that money every couple of years. The house cost and income seems irrelevant as I have presented estimates ranging from middle income to millionaires with similar unappreciative results. The exceptions are under 50% and they usually are a result of pre-screening and referrals. What I mean by pre-screening and referral is having another contractor provide you with information on customers personality and spending practices (inside information is most useful).

I face companies every day that strip and stain for $0.50 per sq ft.

The one day deck seems to be very popular around this area also.

As I said, referrals are very helpful to get pricing up and finishing new decks helps to keep costs affordable to most customers. I work on overall averages for deck work so the high cost ones help out the lower end work. It helps when work is over abundant which provides ability to be selective. The other item that is helpful is when someone has had BAD experience with previous contractor.

Pricing is relative to your business situation and IMHO some factors that contribute to business costs to consider are:

- Are you an owner/operator with no employees or an owner/operator with employees.

- Deck work is or isn't the only type of work your business offers

- Does your business have enough work to stay busy?

- Do you need more work to expand?

- Is your business new and in need to establish customer base/recognition or are you already established?

I can be very profitable on $0.50 per square foot for cleaning and brightening ONLY. One trip, low cost chemicals (less than $0.04 per sq ft).

Stripping is another subject and the price is relative to the existing stain type (how hard is it to remove). The staining portion can also be more time consuming and costly depending on 1 person doing the work or more and how you apply (by hand, pump-up or sprayer, etc.).

[svp07 14]

Paul,

I you get this I just want to say you have some very informative posts, thank you. A question you may be able to answer is if HD 80 will kill mold? Thought I read that it would not on a previous thread.

Thanks.

[EmpirePW 14]

Michigan... Cincinatti... Cheap areas for deck cleaning... The weather sucks and the winters last 9 months... Nobody appreciates their decks... Come down South, that's what I did you can work all year long and people appreciate their decks more so they want them taken care of properly...

[Aplus 525]

Now I don't have any problem selling higher cost deck jobs where I'm at in Michigan. But, I can't get $900+ for a 400 s/f, I'd go hungry. Typical 400 s/f here is in the $500 range.

[PressurePros 249]

Hey Tony C. Is that including the 60 linear feet of railing and the four steps leading to the yard? If it is then you too are getting about $.87 a square to strip and stain.

My mother just had a small table (4' diamater lets call it 16 sf) stripped and refinished. Nothing fancy, stripped, stained diff color, couple coats of urethane. The cost? $90 and she had to bring it to them. It probably went into some type of tank and the finish was sprayed on. Five dollars plus a square foot and they didn't have to lug around hoses, mask anything off or get burned by stripper. And my time is worth 1/5 of what his is? No way. Market or not, my prices are my prices. I am backlogged on decks until early sept. My question to you, Tony.. How long would it take you to do the size of deck mentioned above?

Arrive, setup washer.

Take furniture off deck

Its 90 and sunny so spraying the whole deck at once including railing is not feasible

That landscaping that covers every inch of the perimeter looks expensive (plastic?)

There are popped nails on every other board

Customer wants furniture back on deck after stripping

Its a cedar one and its fuzzy as hell. Needs a decent amount of deburring

Take off furniture, hot tub cover etc again

House is stucco and the way its built you'd have to mask half of it in plastic to spray

With the above variables, 9 hours (with one employee) into this project would be a fair estimate. $500 minus $75 for stain, minus $40 chemicals, minus $90 for your guy, minus say another $40 for insurance, taxes, gas, wear and tear, advertising, etc. Now we have $255/8 = $31 I'll concede, thats not a bad rate if you never went to college and you don't have a union job. For me its just wouldn't be enough for the headaches that go with owning and maintaining a business.

[Paul B. 523]

HD-80 will kill SOME mold & mildew but the best bet is sodium hypochlorite for heavy accumulations. On the financial end, sodium hypochlorite is generally less expensive for this type of an application.

[svp07 14]

PressurePro,

Can I have an est. per sq. ft. that you would charge just to strip a deck...say 800 sq. ft. that includes the rails.

Thanks.

[JFife 14]

I'd have to be with PressurePros on this one. I'd have no problem getting $700-$1000 on a 20x20 deck, depending on other questions. The county I work in is the wealthiest county in the Southeast, and perhaps you guys should try and market in different areas of your cities. I never advertise to homes valued less than 350-400K, which is average in my area. Majority of decks we do are on homes around 500-750K. And all of my homes are brick, which makes staining even easier.

I have hardly any competitors, which i believe is because of the high cost of living in the area. A middle class worker would have to drive close to 45 min. just to get to these homes. I have an apartment right in the middle, and am local to the people. Another thing is the lack of other pressure washing type work. We clean and seal aggregate driveways (which every home has) but there are no vinyl homes, concrete, etc. that most pressure washers work on. And many pressure washers/painters have given up on decks, because it is difficult to get a great result.

Believe it or not, my theory is that wealthier people enjoy hiring people dedicated to the art of a very specific biz, i.e. deck restoration. If you offer 15 other services as well, you become a handyman and are due handyman wages. But I've found people that can afford it, like to hire experts. I've people hire me to do a deck, and hire a separate pressure washer to come after me to clean the concrete patio. People ask me to do other types of work, and I tell them to hire a painter, carpenter, etc. because I am only an expert at what I do, and I think people like that.

....and a demonstration will be the fastest sale you've ever made, if you are willing to invest the time into it. Keep a cheap 1500psi washer in the back of your truck and show what you can do, easy sales.

New Jersey Guy, get some experience at your current price then raise them up to where you can make a decent living.

[PressurePros 249]

Steve, for 800 squares including the railings, no staining just stripping then applying acid.. I would expect $700-900 depending upon how much of that is railing. Railings are what eat your time and chemical. Believe it or not I have never just stripped a deck. I do the whole nine yards. I carry photos of decks I have seen where people stained wet decks, unstripped decks with remaining sealant intact, or, have stained over tannin bleed with no prep. These decks are blotchy, peeling messes. It takes about .01 seconds for them to let me do the finishing as well. I realize your situation is different but allow me to ask you a question. Why is your father going to do the staining? Is he your partner or are you just skeptical of doing the process yourself?

As a side note, I have walked away from "cleaning" jobs. People will tell you they just want a cleaning when in treality they are planning on refinishing. Your call back comes in about two months when the Thompson's WS is breaking down all over the place. You "cleaned" it so it must be your fault.

[seymore 90]

Jon

Good post i agree with you completely about specializing in restoring decks or new construction.You will find tons of p/wahers in the yellow pages but try to find someone to specialize in decks is next to impossible here.Most of my jobs are also in that 400k & up range for the most part higher on the lakes and country clubs. I'll get a customer every now and then ask for some repairs or painting ets...I'm like you I know a good painter,carpenter you can call.

I get most of my jobs from customer referals, deck Co.'s

and real estate developers for subdivisions i have contracts for.My prices are fair for this part of the country I think.

I don't know of much competition around here in Hou.We don't even need to do any advertising now or have in a few yrs. I'm backed up almost 2 months and counting with all the rain!!

What kinda decks you work mostly on in Tn. cedar-PT?

[JFife 14]

Hello Seymore,

All of our decks are treated pine. I'll do about one cedar decks a year, and about two redwood decks each year. I still pick up odd jobs every now and then. Like PaulB said, your prices will be determined by whether or not decks are the majority of your work. If you make your living on fleet accounts but enjoy doing the occasional deck, you can be a little cheaper, since you aren't depending on that for the majority of your work. The majority of my work is Log home restoration, and I consider doing the occasional deck a treat. Most are referrrals, repeats. I had some time off a couple weeks ago and got a call to put new rails and lattice on a 700sf deck. I love doing carpentry type work, but am not an expert at it. So I did it for them by the hour, and it came out great. Me and my brother (who was visiting and also enjoys that type of thing) did it in about 13hrs at $52 and hour. I didn't have anything else to do, and they paid in cash. I was pretty pleased considering the circumstances. The trick with pricing is to get busy enough to look someone in the eyes and fire a big number. hey, if they say "no", who cares, your booked for two months anyways. But let me gurrentee this: you'll never get it unless you ask for it.

my favorites are the people that plead to your sense of help, and tell you things like, "we are both working-class people and have two kids in college, and we also have to get the interior painted. So is there anyway you can help us out with the price?" I just laugh and say "no." It is usually women that do this, and it is so funny because they do it in a way that you can tell their husband told them to try and negotiate, and they are giving it their best shot. Just like a woman eh, appealing to sympathy :)

Speaking of pricing and closing sales, has anyone ever closed a job to an asian or Indian (India)??? That probably sounds stereotypical (which it is) but hey, marketing and sales is nothing but following stereotypes. I usually get a couple of calls a year from asians/indians, always followed by, "you are much too high." I hate to pigeon hole two entire continents on a few calls, but you have to follow your demographical trends. Not trying to offend anyone here, if I've done so you can report me to the aclu or something! j/k

[PressurePros 249]

Speaking of pricing and closing sales, has anyone ever closed a job to an asian or Indian (India)??? That probably sounds stereotypical (which it is) but hey, marketing and sales is nothing but following stereotypes. I usually get a couple of calls a year from asians/indians, always followed by, "you are much too high." I hate to pigeon hole two entire continents on a few calls, but you have to follow your demographical trends. Not trying to offend anyone here, if I've done so you can report me to the aclu or something! j/k

Laughing my ass off over here.... Here is what I got last week from an Asian homeowner who also owns 12 very succesful asian restaurants and drives a $110,000.00 Porsche.. "You give discount I pay cash" I just smiled and asked him what discount I get on a quart of pork fried rice when I pay cash. He smiled and we moved on.

[seymore 90]

Jon

:rotfl: That's too funny i know exactly where you coming from!!

Yeah PaulB was right that man knows his business I agree with him completely.

My only construction build a fence during the winter or change out a few boards every now and then.I like it that way I'll take staining over deck building anyday!!

I wish i could do more log homes like most of you guys.People here choose to build cedar vs.log homes for some reason.I've done a few not many the sealant just didn't soak in to fast being under the porch.I wish i could get more experiance on log homes!

I totaly agree with you fire a price at em you never know.I just let my pics speak for themselves and 7rs exp.sells myself for me.I eat,breath and sleep wood restoration i tell em.:)

I've had the"You are too high" before and i get a call from them to come help them and now their price is even higher.Having to strip off some crappy finish that wasn't done right.

MY fav.was repeat "older" customer asking for a "senior citizens discount" :rotfl:

[seymore 90]

That's funny Pros

I get the i wanna pay "cash" discounts too ...moslty from higher tax brackets..hmmmmm

Like my bank is gonna charge me to cash their check huh

[Gavin 14]

This is my first year refinishing decks and my prices keep going up every job. I've lost a few bids here and there but for the most part, people agree to my price right away (which is why it keeps going up). Most of the homes I do here in Colo range from $300,000 - 2 million+. Deck refinishing is suddenly popular here (according to some of my suppliers). I've already raised my price .50 per sq in 6 months. I do think that I'm at my threshold now at .95 for a strip & brighten & 1.95 for a regular strip, brighten & seal. Two-tones I'm more like 3.00 per. There is also not a lot of compition here as well as there are a lot of upscale areas in the Denver subs. I couldn't survive at .50 per.

[the_GUNN_man 14]

The whole issue with paying in cash isn't if it costs money to cash a check, it is so that you don't have to deposit that money and it won't show up for taxes. I ONLY deposit checks made out to my company name. If they write them to me personally I cash them without depositing them. You have to be careful with using a persoanl account as your business account. Any depsoits look as if it was your business who made money. It would be bad if you sold a car for $5000 and deposited it in your business account. If you are audited it may look as if you made that money pressure washing. I never ask people to make checks out to me. If they ask me I tell them they can wirte it to me. I guess it all depends on how honest you are and how bad you feel for our government being poor. Does anyones bank cash a check made out to someone's business name? My bank says that all checks made out to my business are deposit only and wait for the money to clear, usually just one day.

[PressurePros 249]

Hey Steve,

I do prefer cash and if a customer seems "cool" then I will give him $50 off if he pays that way. I have no problem asking a customer to write it out to me (residential only) My bank will cash a check made out to my business name. I own the business and the bank knows me, so why wouldn't they is my question. I guess it depends upon the banks policy.

[Everett Abrams 501]

Steve,

Any check made to a business name is to be deposited. They are also required to have additional information on the company like a SS# or Fed ID #, also a Certificate of True Name(in NJ). Many of the these guidlines are federal including depositing of a business check.

[RyanH 14]

Bank of America started requiring all business checks to be cashed to have a business account and the certificates Everett mentioned above. Some smaller banks will setup DBA accounts for you and they are a little more lenient on rules for depositing /cashing. If you get to know the tellers at a small bank, they will allow you to put business checks into your personal account without having a business account. I've never seen a bank that will allow you to cash a check without a personal name on it unless your name is in the business title (like "Mike's Pressure Washing") AND you are cashing it at the same bank from which it is drawn.

My willingness to comply 100% with taxes is directly related to how I think the government is doing at the time. Currently, with the war and my support for our president, I'm more than willing to pay what the tables say I should pay. If Kerry or Clinton manage their way back in, I will most likely be little more subversive and not as forthcoming with the dough. No taxation without representation, isn't that what our founders said a few centuries back? And Kerry sure as hell doesn't represent me nor my beliefs.