Requested Estimating sheet.

[reed 500]

This is the calculation/estimating excel sheet most have been requesting. You will need MSExcel to run it. This is an actual customers bid that was excepted at the end of this past season.

Reed

logancalculations.xls

[bkwelker 64]

Reed,

Thanks for posting that, I've converted it to my PocketPC so I can use it on the fly. That'll make things go quicker! Thanks again.

You asked for a deck contract in another thread. Hopefully, someone will post one, but in the meantime, this is a mish-mosh contract I've put together to use when a customer requests something in writing. I've flat-out ripped off, plaigerized and stolen things others have posted in various threads of this nature over the years and came up with something that customers seem to have no issues with and that I can live with. Hope it helps until someone posts something better (I know it's out there)...

Agreement Pankratz.doc

[reed 500]

Brian, glad I can help. Thanks for the document. It gives me a place to start for this coming years contracts.

Reed

[tropical wave 22]

Hey guys, Those look GREAT........

Reed, I see you convert everything into sq feet...Do you do that for yourself to estimate the cost and/or is that mostly for the customer to have something on paper? Im sure you've been doing this long enough to pretty much "estimate" your price by looking at a project. Also, do you toss in the 20sq feet of lattice as its unreasonable to put it into the estimate?

I also "assume" the 12.75 gallons of sealer is for 2 coats (Ready Seal) as if it was for 1 coat you'd only be getting about 90 sq ft per gallon......

172 spindles---- ouch, and if I recall, you pretty much brush everything too..

Thanx again guys.......

[reed 500]

The sf calculations are use for pricing and estimating the amount of sealer needed. I can adjust the sealer coverage based on the age of the wood.ie, will it give me 100 or 80 sf per gallon. I roll most decks. Sponge twinkies and pad the floors. Lattice is measured normally using width x height. Though it is not a solid sturcture, the typical measurement utilizes the pain in the ass factor to make up the difference. Every deck I do gets two coats minimum. Handrails I try to put at least 3 coats in that they and the floor take a huge beating normally. I put heavy coats on. Rolling and padding gives me super coverage per sf and if there is any left over, it can be used on other jobs.

I don't eye ball price to the customer. I can pretty much tell what the price will be, but I want a hard copy of sf and I have found that my customers like it too.

I will post a pic of this deck next to the calc sheet above.

Reed

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Its a good practice to measure everything and take into account the terrain, the amount of vegetation surrounding the structure and the nearby dwellings. This equates into the pita factor when you must consider that dealing with these additional items that they take time away from actually doing the work. The protection and care you must exercise around them is worth getting paid for. This is not to say that if you didnt get paid for this it is assumable to get reckless by any means.

Time, supplies, costs of tools and equipment (depletable [pads, brushes, rollers, plastic, tape etc] reusable tools that wear out), transportation costs, payroll costs, insurance, taxes, overhead.

These are unique to each business and will differ respectively. I like Reed's spread sheet. It has his calculations to arrive at his costs which he can monitor as prices change for his supplies. Very well thought out.

Rod~

[tropical wave 22]

It is very VERY well thought out.....I really like the way the measurements for every piece of wood is on there... I can see a customer saying they have a 20X20 deck and thinking they only have 400 sq ft......but to see every post, rail, spindle, support, step, riser factored in, really puts it into perspective for the customer......

Reed, are you using wet on wet sealers or taking 2-3 days to seal? One more thing, even using a semi trans sealer, does 3 coats darken it to much to almost reasemble a solid by covering to much grain.....??? I would imagine not, and it may be a moronic question, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

This is all wonderful! Thanks to all who share such things!

Beth

[reed 500]

Mike, there is never a moronic question.

I have had the luxury of having great help the last several years. We can knock out a 1000sf deck in about 6 hours working at a good pace. I use ReadySeal and WoodTux. Both are wet on wet. Each product is different in it's application. RS can be applied 24 or more hours later after initial application. I seldom have to do this, but there are times when it's a must. WT is better light wet on wet coat. "I" do not recomend applying over a dry coat in that "I" haven't had the results I wanted in doing this. Others that use WT more than I will have their results and hopefully post them for you to get ideas from. My experience with RS and WT does not darken as you may think it would. With RS it actually enriches the color, with WT I haven't seen any difference in color, WT gives color right from the start. One reason I like WT. RS an WT both, do not hide the beauty of the grain. Another reason I won't use anything else. Results are spectacular with both as far as grain goes.

Hope this helps you.

Reed

It is very VERY well thought out.....I really like the way the measurements for every piece of wood is on there... I can see a customer saying they have a 20X20 deck and thinking they only have 400 sq ft......but to see every post, rail, spindle, support, step, riser factored in, really puts it into perspective for the customer......

Reed, are you using wet on wet sealers or taking 2-3 days to seal? One more thing, even using a semi trans sealer, does 3 coats darken it to much to almost reasemble a solid by covering to much grain.....??? I would imagine not, and it may be a moronic question, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

The one thing that I find detracts the most from a sealed deck is the furring left behind from either the wash or chemicals. If they arent removed prior to staining, it can leave a very uneven look.

Rod~

[reed 500]

I hate that "furry peach syndrome" too.

reed

[tropical wave 22]

thanks Reed and Rod........ nothing beats picking the brains of those who have so much experience.......well, one thing beats it, that's getting great answers to those ?'s...............

[rocco 14]

Reed,

Hey this is an awesome sheet. I have made up one for myself but its no comparison to this! So I am trying to understand the pricing you have on it. For the most part its close to the same price I charge any way so its an easy conversion for me! One part I dont understand is on the sealing price you use a formula of =((H5/90)*(19))+(H5*0.45) I understand this to be (sqf divided by 90)times 19) plus (sqf times $0.45). What is the division 90 and multiply of 19 for? Once again thanks for posting it.

[reed 500]

90 is the approx coverage per sf I put in, you can adjust this for wood age (older the wood less coverage-new wood 120sf/gal) the times 19 is rounded up cost per gallon of sealer. this gives me the cost of sealer to be used. the $.45 is the charge per sf to stain by hand. The total cost for sealing includes sealer cost and labor. I seperate the sealer cost and sealing labor, in other words, sealing is 2 costs in one, sealer and labor.

Hope this helps

reed

[reed 500]

Just so everyone knows, this calculation sheet was intially made by Mike Hughes years back. I have over the years tweaked it and made it a little better I hope. It prices according to sf and if one takes the final cost divide it by SF total, you will get the cost per sf. You can always go in and adjust any pricing section to conform to what your market will handle. I find that the homeowners really like seeing exactly how much sf'd they have and how pricing is made. When they compare it to others most times they don't get a full explanation from my competitors.

I would like to publicly thank Mike Hughes for starting this spreadsheet and also hope that we continue to share info to make our industry better. I started out 5 years ago with lots of questions, and I got answers from so many people I can't remember all their names. And I thank each and everyone of them. Without input from others and using that input and applying it to my area, I would not be where I am now and look forward to growing with input yet to be recieved. It's always a learning process.

I will always strive to share information that will better the industry as will others you see post here.

Reed

[tropical wave 22]

Pricing for the area is still getting me a little bit....Unless I call a company out to give me an estimate on my deck and fence, how do I know the market here? I mean the cost of living in Chicago is pretty high, almost the equal to NYC.. everything is grossly overpriced here...yet my supplies (sealer, chems etc) will cost me the same as they cost everybody else thats reading this...so, from what I have read thus far, is its easier to be a little high and adjust down then the other way around.... most wood I see here is unprotected or sealed by the homeowner with poor chems and whatever is on sale at the home depot... basically I'm saying I have no idea what the market will Behr (LOL, pun intended)

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Great stuff indeed, but I am lost in the math a bit. Can someone explain what the 144 in the cell E30 stands for under the spindel section? I am stuck on why not dividing by 12 to get feet out of inches on some of these cell formulations.. I must be missing something important in the math formula or what the spreadsheet program is capable of... As example on the 4x4 post cell D25 why is the formula =B25*(C25*0.33*3.6) instead of =B25*C25*(3.6*4)/12 ?

I mean the .33 stands for the 4 sides but yet it doesn't, does it? :) Does the cell formulation not allow what I just formulated to allow for the infinate number a bit better ?

I don't see rounding up making up for the larger quantities of items..Seems there is room for either more understanding on my part or accuracy for everyone... someone please help me out here if ya can..

Also, just like Tropical Wave, I am not sure what the market will Behr in my area (Sacramento, Ca) for deck work. Anyone got first hand knowledge for here? One large commercial real estate client calling me totally balked at my idea of working $80 per hour on what I described as a 4 hour job plus chemicals. And then when I offered to measure it out at .20 sq.ft. they still acted like I was off my rocker. It was rediculous and would have to wonder if it was a legit call even if it weren't for knowing exactly where the location was and who they were. I most likely would have been doing 1k sq/ft plus some linear on the rails and they seemed to want a $100 bid. Is that just the way it goes sometimes? I would think so. In inside work on vinyl floor stripping I see customers both expecting and paying rates from .09 to .30...

I tend to go middle of road at .20 for such work. But where am I to start on the wood?

~Kevin

[reed 500]

The 144 is used to convert to sf from inches.

A 4x4 post is roughly 4 inches wide, to convert that to a sf you divide 4 inches by 12 inches and that give you the foot measurement for 4 inches, ie, .33 feet, then if you multiply that by 4 (for 4 sides you get 1.320 then multiply that by the height of the post, ie 4 footer give you 5.28 then it's multiplied by the number of posts) The sf measurement is made first then the multiplication by the number of posts. if you get the same answer then yes you can do it your way, this is the I did it.

I try to keep all measurements as simple as possible. some of the cell formulations use inches and some use feet.

Feel free to call me and I can talk you through it.

reed

[JimCrossley 14]

This is a great thread. I hope you don't mind my 2 cents worth.

On more than one occasion I run into irregualar shaped deck areas. I find that this target http://www.webcalc.net/menu.php is a great place to resolve the issue of pulling out old geometry formulars. http://www.webcalc.net/calc/0020.php is great for triangles knowing just the lengths of three sides. Just try to break an area down into squares (and or rectangles) and triangles.

Just my 2 cents, and I hope some of you find this cool web site to be helpful.