Homeowner Knows Best.

[Paul B. 523]

Just recieved a call this morning to provide an estimate to re-finish a deck - story in a moment but first I wanted to let you know that I don't really expect to get this job, but I'm very curious (you'll see why).

The story:

This gentleman tells me he has a 12 year old deck that he has stained with Behr semi-transparent stain every other year (so far, so good).

It has never been stripped, so at least 5-6 coats are there (starting to head south).

It was stained last September and for some reason it's starting to blister (Hmmm ...I wonder why?). Before staining each time, it was cleaned with water only.

He has a claim going with Behr and he thinks it's their fault that the finish is failing (I better hire a lawyer). Behr told him he should not be putting 2 coats on horizontal and should be stripping and sanding between coats. He does not understand why (sounds like - if 1 coat is good, 2 coats should be better and 10 should be great). He states that after some pressure by Home Depot, he has Behr's promise that they will pay but he needs 2 estimates. I'm almost positive that Behr will only reimburse for the cost of the product, but I could be wrong. Who knows what angle this man has? (He will most likely pocket the money and do the work himself again.)

He wants to stay with the same product even though another contractor and I both told him that there are much better products out there. I tried to educate him on cleaning, neutralizing and staining process (I think I just ticked him off - Mean Papa stop that). At least by his words, I was very consistant with the other contractor on the product and the process - there may be hope for him if he does not think we're both lying. And of course he is in a hurry for the estimate (I better find out if he is a lawyer himself).

Like I said, I don't expect to be awarded this job (even if my bid is competitive), but you can be sure my numbers will be at the high end - sorry Behr. I will not guarantee the product only my workmanship. The estimate will include stripping with HD-80, Neutralizing with Citralic Acid, sanding/defurring, (1) coat Behr on horizontal and (2) coats on vertical. Staining after wood moisture level is below 12%.

Again, I would normally turn down bidding for this type of a person and on this type bid but I'm curious to see what 10 to 12 coats of Behr product looks like on a surface. I will try to take photos and post for your viewing experience. I may decide to cancel after I sleep on it over-night or get another offer I cant refuse (but I'm still curious, aren't you?).

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Paul,

If he has a claim against Behr, get him to sign a release....you don't want him coming back at you after you do the work saying you ruind his "evidence". Get him to acknowledge in writing that he has asked you to remove it, etc., etc... Just a thought..... I don't know if I like the way it sounds... Whenever we do a deck with Behr (we don't push it and only do it if they insist) we get them to sign saying they understand we are not responsible for the performance of the product and that we are in no way liable for it should it fail.

Beth

[Paul B. 523]

Beth,

I agree with you and I do the CYA.

I always work with a signed and dated contract that has all the assumptions and exception. I take photos and I only guarantee workmanship. The product performance as color and life is not something I guarantee.

Thanks for the heads up!

[mhpoole 14]

Better off leaving that one alone in my opinion

[Paul B. 523]

The man is a doctor (shrink) - he's a bit strange but he's OK.

Usually I'm real good at reading people (I'm a gambler Exacta, Trifecta, Black Jack - but I study the game) I get the feeling he'll be doing the work himself. Just needs the estimates for Behr - he doesn't have a lawsuit. Home Depot is helping him out and I guess with all the litigations going on in the northwest, they are being a bit more cooperative than normal.

I stopped at his place last night, I was running errands and 5 other estimates, there was a bit of daylight left so I called on the spur of the moment and he was at home (it was 3 minutes from my last estimate). We talked a bit, then he disappeared. My numbers will be high for him anyway.

Like I said, I was interested to see what it looked like. I have photos, but today was a long day, I'll try to post them tomorrow.

[Greg Rentschler 14]

Hi Paul ,

We've done a few reimbursement type jobs like this before and they usually pan out fine. One in particular was for BEHR. They paid the homeowner after receiving our estimate, then the homeowner paid us.

Charge accordingly and profit :)

Take Care,

Greg Rentschler

[Paul B. 523]

Thanks Greg - good info.

I'll definitely weigh your info before I give him the estimate on Monday.

[Paul B. 523]

Better late then never??? You tell me.

I went to look, measure and did provide an estimate.

I didn't see 5-6 layers of stain like I expected, I did see about 2. If it was applied every 2 years without stripping (like he said) the stain must have peeled away on its own and with the washing. Not a great protection product in my opinion.

- It's a water based product (first strike against it - just my opinion)

- Based on the cracks in the wood, the product did not protect well or was not applied in the early (formative) years.

- Judging from the blisters and peeling and mold under the paint, the substrate was not cleaned and prepared properly for the protective stain.

- He said he applied 2 coats to both vertical and horizontals surfaces. 2 things here:

- Behr does not recommend 2 coats on horizontal for peeling reasons.

- And why would you apply 2 coats of a semi-transperent that will give you a solid look? Why not go to a solid???

- It could be that the first coat of stain was not fully dry before the second coat was applied (but I don't think that cause the peeling on the horizontal but not on vertical).

I've attached several photos, feel free to comment or express your opinions.

[Paul B. 523]

Photo No. 2

[Paul B. 523]

Photo No. 3

[Paul B. 523]

Photo No. 5

[Paul B. 523]

Last photo (for you).