EFC-38 vs. HD 80

[Jon 533]

Darn I did it again, I shall allow you to be MEAN if you so desire!

I have changed my ways;)

And as for age, well I refuse to grow up, I am just a recycled teenager forever and ever.

Jon

[Paul B. 523]

It's not a desired characteristic. It's an inherited gene!

And don't you forget it!!!

[Greg Rentschler 14]

We also have always used a stripper on a deck with heavy mold and mildew, even if it was only thompsons. The caustic base of a stripper does a better job of dissolving and breaking down the mildew than say a percarb we have even done tests with our own products that have proven so. At the same time though, if mold and mildew wasn't a serious problem we would clean with a percarb (easier on the body and surroundings :) )

Take Care,

Greg Rentschler

TimberSeal, Inc.

866-966-3227

[Paul B. 523]

Thanks or your input Greg!

I think Beth's & Greg's credability provides speedy clarification of this issue.

It's an issue of having some folks with inexperience telling other folks with inexperience what works and what doesn't work. I'm not sure if it's a lack of proper application, mixing, or general mistakes, etc. I know there is definitely a lack of knowledge around ratios and dilutions especially when it gets to upstreaming, downstreaming and the use of the X-Jet. Sometimes things spill over from one BB to another and tend to pick up momentum like a snowball rolling down a hill.

Who's the designated snowball catcher this week?

[Paul B. 523]

Tony,

I'm curious, are you using a close-up attachment? and

Did you have a problem priming the striper to that elevation?

When we use our extension wand, you have to lower it to get it going, then after it's going everything is fine.

[Aplus 525]

Beth,

We stripped everything, except the underside of the roof. It took 10 gallons of stripper.

Paul,

In the pictures above, I am actually using an xjet copycat, called a vjet. It looks very similar to the real mccoy, except it has a threaded end for interchanging the 1/4 meg nozzles. Basically, I change nozzles for the purpose of altering the spray pattern. I use the shut off valve on the hose to control how I want it blended. I do have a real xjet, but I wasn't using it in that photo.

The extend-a-wand I have has no problems priming, in any position. Of course, it's only an 8ft extension. On my larger extension poles I have 3/8" hose, and even they prime and draw with no problem. I'm using a 4gpm machine.

[Paul B. 523]

We don't have anything less than a 4 GPM machine but the X-Jet does not seem to prime when used in the elevated mode above say 14-16 feet. It's OK, I was expecting it, but if it's not the norm for most, I'll keep searching to find the solution. Everything on the machines check out (PSI, GPM, no leaky hose or fittings, etc.).

The other scanerio that we have with the X-Jet is when we go from the open position to the Close-up attachment, the ratio doubles. I've been told that the close-up nozzle should be a 4030 to avoid the problem I'm experiencing. Well it is a 4030. I may need to go to a different nozzle size to match the open position. I haven't called Ron since it's not a top priority at this point (we've made adjustments).

Thanks!

[ParadiseProWash 14]

Tony Im glad you tried the Xjet with stripping. It is a tool in the box and it does have its place while stipping just like everything else. Conditions have to be right in order to use it like no wind blowing. When I use mine on decks I always use the close range nozzel and I have had great results with this method and like you said it goes fast. I would like to say to a newbie reading this that conditions must be right like no wind or it is dangerous. These are my views and are meant only as a view. Truck washers use Xjets all the time to apply acid and they are shooting it in the air alot more than I am now I would think that to be very dangerous. We as pros in this business have alot of toys in our box and each has its place. As pros we know when we can and cannot use a certain method due to certain conditions.:D

[Aplus 525]

Morgan,

I think the truck washers tend to upstream more often than use an xjet. Maybe ron p will chime in. I think it would be too dangerous to xjet hf acid.

I don't think I'll be applying stripper on decks with the xjet any time soon, but I won't say never, because like you said, there are times and places where it is appropriate.

[ron p 500]

i know some guy's use a x-jet as a downstreamer for applying truch cleaning chem's but i have no use for a x-jet in truck washing, other then used as a mud knocker.

My truck chem's use a very high delution rate so no need for the x-jet.

Hmmmmmm. close range tip and apply the stripper.

Some do,some dont.

if the water can only hold x amount of product and the x-jet applies at 2 to 1, how would you get the right mix on the surface?

[Paul B. 523]

When you say it that way, it does become obvious that you can't apply a product full strength when using the X-Jet. Maybe that's why some products are designed extremely concentrated.

I thought I read somewhere about a 20% Sodium Hydroxide solution - maybe this was the reasoning behind it?

[ron p 500]

along with your pet pieve, i wish people would stop posting "applied with the x-jet" when refferring to their mix and application.

diffrent GPM wash unit's have diffrent draw rates when useing a X-JET.

iF HEAVY DUTY HD80 is 8 oz to the gal of water and applied at 100%[pump-up] and 1 gal of water cant hold more then 8 oz per gal. How would you ever be able to apply heavy duty stripper with a x-jet? you cant.

Now without being labled a trouble maker. A well known chem salesman uses his product with an x-jet.

So let's do the math and let's see out of these 2 strippers,which one is more cost effective.

Both by cost per gal and application time.

Anyone on this bbs use both strippers? Heck might as well add another one to the test

tracy,beth,steve, greg all sell heavy duty strippers.

Which one work's the best and what is the cost per APPLIED gal?

Simple question.

[ParadiseProWash 14]

A word about X Jetting HD-80 I have read were people dont need to mix the HD-80 full strength so by mixing the HD-80 full strength and diluting it with the X-Jet wouldnt you be mixing the HD-80 at a 50/50 mix which in alot of cases would be enough strenghth to do the job. It would be like mixing 4 oz of HD-80 to a gallon instead of 8 oz right. Like I said its a tool in the box not a thing were its used all the time. I have Surflows, Pump UPs, X -Jet, and Downstream in my tool box for applying things. Its up to the pro to inspect the site and decided what tool is best for this application like Tony did. I think it made perfect sense to X jet what he did as long as conditions were right and as a pro he saw fit to do so. As mentioned earlier these are views and I would like to say to a new person you need to learn before you apply with faster methods. These a dangerous chemicals and as pros we have been dealing with dangerous chemicals for a long time. Ask before you apply with the method mentioned above because these chems can kill you as can alot of chemicals used in this business. :)

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Hey Ron,

WHICH Sunbrite product.... Remove or Severe Strip? Or both?

I don't have any of Greg's product. I do have Steve's. Don't have Sunbrite's.

If we were to test the above products and if one called for an application to be applied via x-jet, well, I guess we would have to do the best we could since we don't apply that way.

When Rod does his tests showing HD-80 agains various sealers and stains and coatings he takes a windex bottle and applies it to half a coated board, then does the same for neutralizing. This way he can control the application to a specific area and also get a board to show how the various layers were removed. I guess it's like a half and half shot.

Of course, another pet pieve... applying a sodium hydroxide based product to an asphalt roof. SH is a heavy duty degreaser. That's one reason it helps to cut through sealers. It degrades petroleum based things. So....asphalt has petroleum product in it. I once chatted with a guy (who we all know, and who is popular on many BBS's) who took a shingle and watched it disolve in a container of SH. So, it would also be safe to say that IF you were to apply SH to asphalt you would be wise to then neutralize. However, it seems better to avoid it to us. Percarbs will do the trick and are far safer for the roof.

Beth & Rod

[Paul B. 523]

Beth,

Your point pertaining to the use of Sodium Hydroxide based products are on target - BULLS-EYE!. The only thing I would disagree with is that neutralizing would only have minimal effect, as applying and dwell time has already done the damage to degrease the asphalt shingles (neutralizing would, in my mind, only stop it from further damage).

I have considered roof cleaning as a potential expansion to my business, but do not feel I have a safe application and chemical at my disposal at this point in time.

I am researching (and have found) other chemicals that are much safer (than Sodium Hydroxide) for asphalt roof shingles and people. I have also been researching better methods of application and have designed a piece of equipment that can perform safer than presently offered to contractors at this point in time. Of course this is another subject that I will address in another thread in the future - stay tuned.

Ron,

I think you and I agree that there needs to be a more common language established when talking about the X-Jet and other application tools using suction or venturi effect or equipment that creates a mix ratio other than full strength (up-stream/down-stream/X-Jet/V-Jet, etc.). I think we have expressed our frustrations regarding this matter time and time again. (You have been a true champion to this issue.) Without knowing the exact performance of a person's equipment (that's posting info about how they are applying chemicals) the chemical mix in their pail or drum is somewhat useless and misinformative to reader/potential user and mis-application and even safety issues could result. Therefore, we must all strive to raise the bar of quality communication on this subject.

The X-Jet as any other tool can be used safely or dangeriously as I think we all agree. I think about the only thing that people disagree on is where that line gets drawn in the sand.

The number of years of experience does not make you an expert (as we assume it should), as I have seen too many people with said 20 years experience but it has only been the same 1 year experience applied over and over during that 20 year period of time. No specific people were in mind with that statement but let your conscience be your guide if the statement fits you!

We must learn everyday as new information becomes available to us. As "professionals" we must excercise caution and safety when using every single chemical in our reportoir. When we have a customer, their family, pets and plants and their neighbor's family, pets and plants are always to be considered the highest part of the safety equation - regardless of desired speed and income potential. When each of us "professionals" become employers, we have elevated the bar of safety responsibility to another level. Then finally, when we post information on BB's, the level of safety responsibility is taken to the MOST EXTREME level based on opportunity for misinterpretation and the quantity of people (professional or not) that have access to the information. "Safety First and Make It Last" should always be the motto we stand by!