Concerns with stripping over the Lake

[sturgisjr 14]

I have a job I am starting the end of this month... its a white latex sealed deck that needs to be stripped and I planned on using F-18 or HD-80 on it. This deck hangs slightly over the Lake and I am nervous about getting paint and chemicals in there.

Does anyone have an idea on how to prevent this from happening? Is there another Chemical/stripping agent I can use that is safe?

It will be sealed with Cabots Ultra White Solid Oil Decking Stain.

IS there a different route I should take? The Customer wants the old paint off before a new application. It looks really bad, peeling all over and you can tell that the previous owners of this house (these customers Im working with are the new owners) recoated without doing any prep work.

Advice, suggestions, ideas??? Although I want to avoid it, I am prepared for a little extra time and work. I seem to be getting all the tough jobs!

Thanks!

[sturgisjr 14]

As you have read above, I have a job I am starting in 2 weeks. I think I kind of know what I need to do, but I would really appreciate any ideas from anyone who has confronted a situation such as mine or similar.

Did I mention this was a public lake? I can tell you that upon calling the County Government Center, The Public Health Department and the NYS Department of Environmental Conservation, No Permits are required in the State of NY. However, caution should be done to prevent any run-off of wastewater into the lake or nearby streams. Also on locations where a well is present, the structure to be washed must be at least 100' away from the well or at least downward from the well. No chemicals of any kind are permitted when restoring docks that are in the lake.

Are there any other places I should call and check up on? I plan on making supports on the sides of the deck that I will tie up A LOT of tarp on and have it pulled back to the ground. That should prevent any run-off into the Lake?

I really want to be sure I comply with the law and not have neighbors look over and think I am doing something Illegal and report me. I really would like to avoid fines. If stripping with HD-80 or F-18 is not the way to go, what would you do? I checked up on Removal 310, but this is an 1800 sq.ft. deck. They had to have time to think if they even wanted to spend the money to have it done (with HD-80 or F-18 that is). I doubt that want to spend a thousand more for Removall if I figured that right? Or is Sanding the way to go? But then, would I still need to call places about Lead???

I mentioned it was Latex paint that is on the deck. They want an Oil Decking Stain applied. Thats the reason for the complete strip or am I going to have to tell them that the best I can do is sand it smooth and apply another Latex based stain?

PLEASE HELP!!! Thanks.

[RyanH 14]

By how much does the dock hang over the water and how wide is it? How high from the water surface?

[sturgisjr 14]

Just to be clear... its not a dock. This is a deck that hangs over the lake about 1 to 2 feet out supported by 6 by 6 posts. Its a 2nd story deck with a walkout basement below. The length of the deck section that hangs over the lake is 30 feet.

[RyanH 14]

2 feet doesn't seem like too far....what if you tied off some heavy plastic under the deck to direct the runoff from the deck to the ground below, angled backwards so that it doesn't have a chance of making its way to the water.

[sturgisjr 14]

Thats what I was thinking, but I didnt know if anyone would think that would be effective? And the ground below is all brick paving. There is almost no grass down below. would it be harder to control run-off into the lake because of this? I would have to go back and check on how much grass there is.

So from what I have said about the rules around here, do you think I am safe to do it in that method of tying down tarp on the deck railings and then drop it and pull back under the deck and still be able to use HD-80 or F-18??

Thank you Ryan for helping me think here and your feedback. I would like to hear from others too.

[RyanH 14]

Awhile back one of the places I worked was doing some roof work over machinery and they didn't want the risk of rain getting in the equipment. They tied huge tarps to the roof and gathered them along the bottom and directed the fall into 55 gallon drums. They span of roof damage was around 70 feet and they had 20' tarps dropping into 4 55 gallon drums and it worked rather well. It'll be a chore getting the tarps up there and tied off, but once it's in place things should work rather well. As for allowing the HD-80 or F-18 to get on the brick pavers, that's for someone with more exp. to answer....

[Pete Marentay 14]

If your goal is to avoid contaminating the water, then allowing the effluent to hit the ground a few feet from the water's edge might not accomplish that. The stripper you use could still end up in the water at the first rain. In our area, the Army Corps of Engineers is very clear: no chemical cleaners allowed. Their favorite saying to PW'ers is "Water In = Water Out".

I wouldn't worry about the stripper harming the pavers. They should be OK. I also wouldn't worry about chips of latex paint in the water. They'll never melt. They will just settle to the bottom, never to be heard from again.

Stipping latex with HD-80 or F-18 will require a significant amount of stripper and time. I have never done it this way, but if you could capture your water like Ryan did you would be a hero all around. No dead fish floating around the next day. Just dispose of the water in the dirt at least 50' away from the lake and let Mother Nature do her thing.

There are other strippers that will do the job that are not caustic (so they won't harm the fish). These are pastes that you brush on and leave overnight. The paint will separate from the wood, and can be washed off quite easily the next morning (takes at least four hours of dwell time). These prodcuts are expensive, but extremely effective and water soluble. These strippers tend to cost about 60 cents per square foot to buy, so the homeowner needs to pony up if you plan to use one of these products.

[Celeste 341]

Just to make sure you're not putting the cart before the horse here - have you done a test area to see what kind of stripping difficulty you are going to have? You mentioned LEAD - how old is this paint? If it's older than 1978, you may have lead issues which are an ENTIRELY different animal than just stripping paint. That is a nightmare from the work GO. I would hope that your paint is not that old.

But let's say that it is not lead based and that you've tested and removal is going to go fine. I think you should be fine doing the tarps as you have indicated. Does the land slope slightly to the water or drop. You could potentially berm around the bottom to catch any running water that escaped your tarping system. If there's grass down there, you're going to have to keep it wet in order not to kill what's there and in doing so, you will be further diluting your chemicals.

Catching the paint - I read somewhere where someone used landscaping fabric to catch all the paint chippies that came off - it's relatively inexpensive and the water will continue to flow through, leaving the grigglies behind then just roll up and throw away.

Good luck on this one - got any pics yet?

Celeste

[sturgisjr 14]

Thank you all so much for helping me here. I plan on taking pictures this week and I will definitely post them on here. Hopefully with the pictures, you could better offer feedback. Also, I will test some products on there this week as well so I know what I would need to do.

I am almost postive that it is latex. How do I know for sure though? They want an oil based decking stain in the same white color applied. Would an oil work (only if I have sucessfully removed ALL of the paint/stain)? Or will I need to let the customer know we are going to need to do Latex?

The Landscaping fabric sounds like a good idea.

[sturgisjr 14]

We got some pictures taken today of the deck we are concerned about. Please look over them and offer all the suggestions and ideas as you can. I will go back tomorrow morning to try out the HD-80. I did a test patch today with the f-18 and was not pleased. I forgot to bring the HD-80 with me. If the HD-80 brings out the same result, is there another stripper out there I can use other than removall 310 or PeelAway 7 ? Has anyone tried the Cabots Wood Stripper? I plan on trying that while I do the HD-80.

When using F-18, I mixed 4 oz. to one quart for testing purposes which would equal 16 oz per gallon. I had it dwell for an hour with more application every 15 minutes and agitating with a brush before re-application of the F-18.

Should I let it dwell longer?

The parts under the deck are still in good condition. I was thinking of just cleaning it and restaining with the same color. No need to strip those areas right?

Now, with the pictures I have, what would you do to protect stripper and paint from getting into the lake. My idea as well as Ryan's are still in consideration.

[sturgisjr 14]

Notice the different layers and colors of paint. I counted 3... possibly 4 layers and they peeled uf very easily. I was sitting there while an area was dwelling and starting peeling... they peeled in long strips and had a flexible feel to it. Didnt chip or break. It was soft.

[MeiersEnterprises 14]

As far as catching the water, why dont you just screw 4 (4-5ft) 2X4's to those posts angled up and out. then just drape tarpes so the water comes to the ground. You can pull up a line of those pavers and direct the water under them if youre worried about them. Just a thought... That'll be a cool deck when you're finished! Good luck!

[CCHSNC 14]

F-18 and paint mix 30oz (weight) per gallon. Most times it will come off. If it doesn't come off with F-18 than it definately won't do it because it won't mix stronger than 10 oz per gallon. If a SH base stripper won't work than you will need to get something made for Latex or whatever it is. P.S. To see if a stripper of any kind is working just do a scratch test.

[staudend 14]

See if the homeowner would be open to a wash to knock the paint off, sand to smooth and recoat with a nice colored solid? I did over 30 apartment decks in that fashion last summer and they turned out great. It would have cost more to strip each spindle than to replace the wood. Deckscapes from SW makes some great solids that will stick to anything and last longer than any semi or toner. Just a thought, Nick

[superQ 14]

Don't know if t will work, but it is worth a call to the company. It is water based and biodegradable.

http://ndclean.com/bigbearstrip.htm

[Celeste 341]

BioWash makes some environmentally friendly strippers - SunBrite used to carry some, last I checked they were actually on clearance but they may be gone now.

If you're going to do a test spot, you might want to attempt EFC-38 mixed full strength with a healthy dwell time. It's gentler on the environment than HD-80 is but as I understand it, with some patience, it can do the same job. Beth or Russell could probably tell you for certain.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

HD-80, used with Boost may work well here.

You might want to call Pete at SunBrite and see what he suggests as well.

If this is laytex, EFC-38 will not work.

You might be best off with a gel you leave overnight.

Again, call Pete.

Beth :groovy3:

[sturgisjr 14]

I just sent an e-mail to my customer on an option we thought of that we feel is the best solution. First... I can tell you that my husband went and did another test patch yesterday and he was able to get all 4 layers of Latex 98% off with a dwell time of 2 1/2 hours. That isnt too bad. Pretty impressed too. Worked way much better than the F-18 test.

Anyway... we decided that we would use the HD-80 on the parts away from the lake and on the floors. The spindles on the outside that overhang the lake will only be sanded smooth. If we did the spindles and railings with HD-80...even with protection, we run a great risk of getting runoff in the lake. Because it is so close to the lake, if the HD-80 gets in the ground and settles...it could run off in there during a heavy rain and we noticed that on the walls they have (in the lake) what seem to be drainage pipes? We decided no-no on the HD-80. All the verticals will be recoated with a Latex stain. Since the floor is peeling really bad anyway, the HD-80 will work on that better and then after renting a floor sander, we could put down a solid oil decking stain. We are trying to talk the homeowner into a semi-transparent to offer a 2-tone. That would look nice wouldn't it?

We did offer to them the use of a biodegradable stripper like Dorado 3130 through Sunbrite and RemovALL 310, but I dont think the homeowners will want to pay an additional $1200 to $2000 for it. Besides I think that the option we recommend is the most reasonable considering the circumstances.

I will let you know what they decided on and if we still have the job, we will definitely post the after pics! Thanks for all your responses.

[sturgisjr 14]

Went and did what we said we would. We enclosed everything with tarp and plastic and created a runoff away from the Lake. It took 2 hours to set up this part of the job. Brian got started and was doing real well. Because we didn't have F-18 or HD-80 due to delay on arrival time, he used TimberStrip Pro. The product worked really great and he was on a roll.

THEN...unexpectedly...it got extremely windy! (Forecast called for a beautiful and calm day in the high 70's.) WHAT A MESS!!! The Tarp somehow got loose and this was while he was pressure washing and it got into the Lake and there was a white cloud all over in there. Of course... he panicked and paged me to come over and help. I showed up and was terribly shocked and had to call my family to see if they were available to help. Lucky for us, they were and we were able to clean up the entire mess. We had to go into the Lake and pick up all the long paint strips and we had to rake and vaccuum the yard. The smaller paint chips were able to settle to the bottom under the stones. The whole clean-up took all of us 3 hours!! It was unbeleivable and we tried to get most of it cleaned up before the homeowners got home from work. They showed up and we had to explain what happened. They were okay with it, I guess cuz they didnt see the original mess. Anyway... now you would think there was never a mess... we cleaned it up that good and there is no longer a white cloud in the Lake. (You should leave property the same as it was before you start a job, Right?)

This is the first time we have had a problem like this and never again! Please tell me that one of you had nightmares like this. Is there a thread on nightmare projects? We should start one... I'd like to hear and how you resolved those problems.

Well... after this incident, we have decided that stripping and pressure washing is a big no-no for this project and need opinions ASAP on what to do next.

We obviously will sand the whole thing smooth. We may rent out a floor sander for the deck floors and wondered which one would be better... a drum or orbital? 60 grit good?

They want a white stain (Thank goodness for that!!) and wondered what you all would recommend for this project. Some say Cabots and others say Deckscapes but which one would specifically work best in our situation?? If we use Cabots Acrylic, do we have to coat with an oil primer first? What if we dont get enough off the wood? We have already invested way too much time on this project and would like something that will coat well with no more than 2 coats.

PLEASE HELP!!!