The Standard Bid rates for post construction cleaning

[dlamontm98 37]

I was wondering does anyone know the going bid rates for commercial retail stores/ banks--post construction cleaning? I know the going rate for new construction homes are 0.15 to 0.26 per sq ft. depending on how bad the home looks...i.e dirt/dust etc...

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Derek,

Commercial rates are not quite double of the residential new home cleaning rates, but that depends on the square footage, just like it does for residential. Best advice I can give you is make the contractor happy, and be frank with them up front that your rates are normally higher. We have had a few factor what we need into their costs when responding to proposals to ensure we get the rates we need.

Hope this helps.

Beth

[Joel Hawley 14]

Derek, if you are taliking about cleaning the brick you might want to try bidding it by the thousand i.e $30 per 1000 brick cleaned. It will save you allot of time on big projects. Just get with the masons who laid the brick and ask them how many brick they got paid for on that particular job. They will know because they bid the laying of the brick by the 1000. They can also tell you who the manufacture of the brick are so you can call for any specific cleaning instructions.

just my .02

I just re-read your post, you were not talking about cleaning the brick. My mistake

:D

[Jon 533]

Hi Joel,

All moved and settled in your new home yet?

Intersting bit of information about brick masons, did not know they got paid by the number of bricks they lay.

Jon

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Yeah Joel,

Hows it going???

Come up for air.

Beth

[Paul B. 523]

Jon,

It's not the number of brick they lay, it's the number of bricks used on the job plus extras. Some unethical masons break bricks on purpose, because they get paid for those also. It's not unusual to have a thousand broken bricks on a job site due to breakage in shipment, or being dropped or broken incorrectly where a half brick or angled brick is needed.

The extras are the real money makers in masonry. Extras are projections like sills, arches around windows, doors, vent areas, gable projections and quoins. Small gables, large gables, 1 story and 2 story fire places, keystones, lintels (above windows and doors) etc., etc. are also charged as extras.

Good money is also there for masons if they supply the materials.

[the_GUNN_man 14]

I get between 40 and 55 cents a sq. ft. for cleaning new brick. That is labor only. The lift, acid, and other materials are extra. That comes out to close to $60 per 1000 bricks. I think there is like 6.7 brick per sq. ft. depending if they are nominal size or not. I do not or I should say have not done residntial brick cleaning. I do larger brick jobs such as schools, churches, mini malls, etc. From the other people I have talked to I am the one of the highest paid brick cleaners around here. It is hard breaking into this field since it pays so well the current people doing it for certain companies make sure they don't screw anything up. I work for a coupls companies in the area but times are slow right now. I have only had one bigger job and a smaller one this year. I am hoping for something to pop up in the winter.

[Paul B. 523]

Unfortunately you would not get any jobs for those rates around here. If you bear with me I'll show you why.

Lets take a new Walgreens store with about 50K bricks.

Bid at your rate of $60 per 1000 (with lift and materials) would be written up at $3000.

- First, they would not give this job to a 1 man crew (owner operator) because the bill-out rate would be too high and normally the schedules would not allow for several days on the job.

- They could expect a 3 man crew to complete this job in 24 man hours.

- The 3-man crew would be:

- (1) Supervisor $24/hr. with a 2.0 mark-up is $72/hr. x 8 hrs. = $576.

- (2) Laborers @ $10/hr. with a 2.0 mark-up is $30/hr. x 3 people x 8 hrs. = $480

- Materials are $120 for this job plus 20% mark-up = $144

- Lift for 1 day = $200 (delivered to site).

- Pressure washer rental (2 x $60/day) = $120 plus handling fee of $100 = $220.

Total for the job = $1620 or $32.4 / 1000 bricks

This would be an absolute top rate, as most will not allow a 2.0 mark-up. A more realistic mark-up is between 1.4 - 1.8.

In reality, a 2 man crew or 22 man hours can finish this job with a lift. (16 hrs. plus 2 hrs O.T. per person or 6 straight hrs. = 22 hrs.)

At 50K bricks at $30/1000 = $1500 divided by 22 hrs. = $68/hr.

Subtract material at $2.6 per 1000 bricks and lift at $4/1000 and you are still over $60 per hour.

Your rate, with supplies and lift would be over $136/hr.

So you can see why you would not be awarded a job like that in this area.

In reality, I bid a similar job of 50K bricks at $30/1000 including mat'l. and no lift. I did not get the job. I lost it to a 5 person crew that bid it at $27.312 per 1000 or $1,365.60

Here was their breakdown, as the calculations were in pencil on the back of their bid:

(1) supervisor at $50 per hr. x 8 hrs. = $400

(4) laborers at $20.80 each x 8 hrs. each = 665.60

(2) pressure washers @ $6.25 per hr. = $100

(1 lot) chemicals $150

(1 lot) misc. supplies $50

I watched another similar building of 50K brick being washed by a crew of 6 with 1 pressure washer. It took them 8 hrs. to finish the job, but I will withhold my comments on their procedures and job quality. The super told me the job was awarded at $20/1000 bricks or about $1000.

Unfortunately, quality is 2nd to cost with these builders. As long as no one complains about the quality, they will go with the lowest prices, as the super gets a % of the total $ saved on the project (that is their incentive).

[the_GUNN_man 14]

On the last brick job I did we were knocking out 250 sq. ft. per hour per man. A 50,000 brick building should be done in two days with two guys. I never make less then $100 per hour with two guys. Do you know there is companies out here getting up to 55 cents a sq. ft. cleaning brick pays very well out here. That is why I quit being a brick layer. I started washing brick for the company I worked for on the side. I working a few hours after work and on Saturday cleaning brick. So I worked about 20 hours washing brick per week. I noticed that my washing checks were much bigger then my regular 40 hour checks laying brick. I was getting paid about $18 an hour laying brick. The thing that even topped all that was the fact I wasn't using a pressure washer at the time. I was scrubbing it by hand and I was coming out way ahead. Things have slowed down and the brick jobs aren't coming like they were but I have my car lots to get me by now. I guess by you the General (super) hires the washing company. Out here it is the responsibility of the masonry company to have the bricks cleaned as well as the caulking for the expansion joints. It is actually kind of cool because I have one company that has told me a couple of times to come out and get the washing done fast because another company is putting E.I.F.S. up and they will probably spill on the brick and you can get to wash them twice. Once to get them clean from the mortar smears. Then when the E.I.F.S. guys come in and slop stuff around they are responsible for cleaning the brick then. So they usually come to me and ask me how much to clean up their mess. In construction once you have a finished product and if someone else comes in and messes it up they are responsible for the clean up. I did a school last year and the cost of the school was $10,000,000. I got paid $14,000 for washing it. There was over 250,000 brick in it. A 50,000 brick building should only take a crew of 3 masons and 1 laborer 1 month to build. I think they charge like $10 per sq. ft. to lay it. So that is about $1.50 per brick to lay it. I get about 6 cents to wash one brick. So the masonry company gets paid about $75,000 to build it. They pay out $12,000 in labor, $4,000 to me for washing it, and the brick are purchased by the owner not the masonry company. The block and stuff like that are. The masonry companies come out very far ahead. Like the school where I washed the brick. The masonry company was paid $1,000,000 to build it. It took then about 9 months. I don't know what the masons get paid in your area or what the bidding goes for on building stuff in your area. That would have a lot to do with how much they are willing to pay for a washing. I have two companies I wash exclusively for. I don't bid on those. I just get told to do them. They haven't gotten a lot of brick jobs lately so it has been slow. They have been busy doing block work but that doesn't need to be washed unless it is split face block.

[Paul B. 523]

If the mason can sub the cleaning out at that rate, how much is he billing for it? I know around here if the masons were getting those rates, they would definitely not sub out the work, but do it themselves. That's over 200% net profit.

A box type 50K brick job like a Walgreens would take about 2 weeks to brick with a crew of 8-9 (under decent conditions). They want the work knocked out fast being on fast schedules. The philosophy is that any day a business is not open, it's money that they can't make or can't recoup. In addition, the longer the job lasts, the more money is spent. There are not a whole lot of extras to make money on these jobs as they have only a couple of doors, about 6-8 windows. It's usually a 2 story box with level terrain. Of course you can lay a lot of brick in a day on a straight, uninterrupted runs.

$1428 per 1000 bricks is an awsome rate for base. Depending on the shape, with EXTRAS, I could see it going that high for commercial. Of course, it doesn't matter what the rate is if there is not much work to be had.

I hope things pick up for you in the masonry cleaning arena.

Around here, residential production masonry starts at $340/1000 plus extras.

Custom starts anywhere but generally about $375/1000 plus extras. The extras can take you to an average of $700-$800/1000.

Commercial starts at about $375/1000 for the simpler work like a Wendys, McDonalds type building and move up to $750/1000 for larger buildings such as schools, auditoriums, churches, etc. Extras woul inflating these numbers.

Construction is still booming around here (for the time being).

[the_GUNN_man 14]

The reason the masons don't do their own washing is that the owner of one of the masonry companies told me that he makes $150 per hour per man for his guys laying brick. Why would he want them washing brick for less then that. Most of the time on brick work I make about $100 to $120 per hour for a two man crew. Sometimes more sometimes less. I have a lot of money invested in my equipment and that is one hassle they don't feel like dealing with. It is like saying why doesn't FED EX wash their own trucks. Some companies don't want to have the hassle of doing everything. The masonry companies also must do the caulking. They sub that out too. Different parts of the country do things differently. I always hear of people doing decks for a $1 per square foot and higher. You will not get those prices here. You will get about 60 to 70 cents if you are lucky. I have washed and sealed decks for 50 cents a sq. ft. I tell them up front for that price I can't use expensive sealer. I do get $2.50 per car for washing cars and that seems to be a good price. We usually do about 30 cars an hour with using two guys. You don't get rich off cars but it is consistent.

[Paul B. 523]

Personally I have a hard time believing that he averages $150 per hour for every person on his crew. Does he have his bricklayers setting up scaffolding and mixing the mortar? The washing wouldn't have to be by a brick layer. He's either not seeing the potential or he doesn't care. Regardless...

Our goal is to average about 300 sq ft per hour or 2100 full and broken bricks per hour per man. That's visualized as a 10ft high wall 30 feet long by the washers. At $30 per 1000 that's $63 per hour per person. When we get $35/1000 then the hourly goes up to $73.50 and at $40/1000 it shoots to $84/hr. Sometimes it goes faster, other times a bit slower but we try to work toward long term averages.

[eastcoast 14]

what do you use to remove the mortar

[Paul B. 523]

We use Prosoco 600 Detergent or Vana Trol.

[Guest rfitz]

Hi Paul,

I have to give a bid on a brick building, where they put in new windows,

and had to put in new bricks, mortar.etc.. where can I get that brick cleaner ?

and how much is it..? Also, I have to remove old paint, caulk, etc. on the brick. around 6 doors, will that mortar cleaner clean that as well..??

I would really appreciate some tips on how to clean brick if you get some free time..

THX