Wolmans bid formula ?

[Guest rfitz]

Does anyone bid according to the wolman formula for decks:?

For example, to wash only, and stain, they say approx. $1.25 a sq ft and .50 cents a sq ft for railing, add another $100 if stripping needs to be done,

I would think just the oppposite, since the rails are the hardest..?

and then going down to 80 cents a sq ft for decks over 2200 sq ft, and I guess .40 cents a sq ft for rails..?

[Paul B. 523]

I bid the railing price by the square foot and it recieves the same as the deck flooring (there are exceptions where I charge more for the railing for example, if the spindles are intricate and have a solid water based stain on them). It would not be smart to bid the railing cost at 40% of the decking in my opinion. You end up using a bit more stain on the rails anyway and it also takes a bit longer. In adiition, some stains recommend 2 coats on verticals and 1 coat on horizontal surfaces. If anything, your railings should cost more than your flooring. (Which is funny, because I don't know how many times I've had a customer tell me the square footage of their deck on the phone, without considering the railing. My response is along the lines of: "So you do not wish to refenish your railing?")

Stripping increases the cost, based on the fact that you need to neutralize/brighten afterwards, which is another step in the process (increasing your time and material costs). Light stripping (as in a failing oil based semi stain) would get the same price as washing (plus the neutralizing cost). Water based stains, stains with teflon, multi coats of solids, etc. would increase the cost based on longer dwell times (time is money) or several application of stripper, or extra sanding, defelting, etc.

If the deck floor is over 600 square ft., I discount the floor price only, by 10%. Over 1000 sq ft gets another 10% discount (floor). Decks with very large flooring (say over 1500 sq ft) would get consideration for an additional discount.

Stains play a large part in the total cost also. I get TWP for $16 per gallon, Ready Seal for $22 and Cabot is $27 per gallon (you get better coverage with Cabot than TWP or Ready Seal so you should know your price per square foot of coverage). If I use Cabot, I pick it up locally (time is money) where as if I use Ready Seal, it's shipped to the front door. I mark up the cost of both (shipping and handling). Ready Seal is not available on store shelves in my area, so I can play with the mark-up to what I think I can sell it for, whereas Cabot is in several stores so I stay consistent with my mark-up.

If I use Cabot solid for example, I apply a primer and 2 coats of finish which increases the cost dramatically. In otherwords, you have to look at all items that can impact your costs: material costs, material coverage rate, supply costs (tape, plastic, tarps, etc.). You can try and build these into your square foot cost or you can add it on at the end.

But there are also other factors that may increase the price, such as how much masking has to be done on the deck and below it.

Terrain and landscaping plays a large factor also. A deck closely surrounded by barberry bushes gets a 10% increase.

I applied for hazardous duty pay on one job where the troops had to battle horseflies all day.

When I'm finished with a square foot price, I cross check it against effort hours it will take to do the job. If there is a large difference, then I adjust or look for errors in my estimate. Then of course you also have to consider your competition of equal value and how good of a sales person you are with your prices.

It can get complex, until you establish your basis for cost, then it gets easier. With each deck behind you the process gets a bit less complicated and you get a better feel for the variables.

[ron p 500]

doing the math to figure the sq ft of railing hurt's my head.

I now go by lin ft of railing.

I hate TWP.

I like aussie oil by cabot's[all cabot's really]

and penofin red lable

ready seal is not any shelve's, only mail order.

If i got heavy into wood i would stock WOOD TUX and Ready seal.

I only do 1 or 2 deck's a month.

No matter how you add it up. It all come's down to makeing the sale and makeing a profit.

Easy deck's get priced diffrent then hard one's.

If i have to take a ladder off the truck, someone is going to pay more then if i dont need a ladder.

Is the customer going to use me other surface cleaning's? This also change's the price.

I stopped telling customer's HOW i got to the price. Just WHY i charge more then anyone else.

80% of good deck work is the railing

[Guest rfitz]

I used to charge 1 price for the whole deck, now I break it down into labor and materials, it is easier for me to keep track of my costs, I normally use Ready Seal, so I charge $25.00 a gallon and always estimate it covering 100 sq ft per gallon, then I charge $5.00 a gallon for strippers, cleaners, briteners etc.. and I figure them too at 100 sq ft per gallon, it is also easier to sell a job when the customer sees your cost involved, and the professional products you are using, then I am usually at between .75 and $1.25 a sq ft for labor depending on what you said, difficulty variables, and I too bid the floor and railings as the same, all sq ft, all the same price, and post's at $12.00 each

I think Wolman has their head in the sand...?

[reed 500]

The formula the Wolman's uses was based on the industry standard when deck restoration was just begining. They have not updated for at least the last 4 years. Pricing really depends on the local market. I get 1.75 per sf and that is the entire sf'd.

Rob, you have my bidding process and it still works for me.

Readyseal and WoodTux are NOT consumer products, they are considered professional products, thus they are not sold over the counter. There are substantial discounts on ReadySeal if a large quantity is bought and you have a business address to ship to.

[Paul B. 523]

Ron,

I've run across some railings that were 5.7 sq ft per linear foot, while others ran at 2.3 sq ft per linear ft. Generally, I think you are fairly safe at 3 sq ft per linear foot, however, you need to recognize that there are some which could throw off your numbers drastically.

Reed,

I read somewhere that Ready Seal is available in some 84 Lumber shelves in Texas. Will it spread to other shelves?

That's how companies make large $$$.

I'm not sure how much national advertising and recognition would hurt.

The railing in the photo is about 2.3 sq ft per linear foot including the posts or about 1.6 Sq. Ft. / Ln. Ft. without.

[Paul B. 523]

Can't find a photo of the one that ran about 5.7 Sq. Ft. / Ln. Ft. but that was the one that changed my thought process about trying to use 3 as my standard number.

Here is another one that's interesting:

[Paul B. 523]

Another:

[Paul B. 523]

And the last one:

[RAJD 14]

I gauge the sq. ft. of rail by the number of spindles, or if they are difficult to strip and clean,

but I always start at 3.00 a linear ft. I just did a deck where the spindles were so close together that I could not put my arm between them. For that I went to 7.00 a ft.

As far as wolmans price guide I agree it is outdated and there is a mistake in their comparisons between hourly rate and sq. ft. rates.

The question of how much to charge comes up fairly often, and the answer is always the same. Time, material, labor, and all the other expenses have to be considered in your base priceing,the local median income and cost of living will affect priceing also.( "you can't get it if they ain't got it" )

Someone posted here at one time "if you get every job you bid on, your prices are to low.

So pick a price according to what YOU have to get to pay the bills and make a living and go from there.

My 2 cents

Bob

[Guest rfitz]

I usually get between $1.25 and $1.45 a sq ft, and I land pretty many jobs at that rate, so maybe I am too low..? I measure the floors and the hand rails by sq ft, not linear feet, for example on a rail that is 3 feet high by 20 feet long

I figure with the header on the outside under the deck that wraps around it,

so in this case the square foot on that rail would be 80 sq ft, now also what I do, instead of figuring my cleaner/stripper/britener and sealer by the gallon.

I just figure how much stain I will use, I always estimate 100 sq ft per gallon

and I figure $30 a gallon, and that is usually pretty acurate , so If I have 1000 sq ft deck, I figure 10 gallons of sealer X 30 = $300.00 at that number,

that will cover my cleaner,stripper, britener,fuel, thinner, brushes, basically all my expenses, so at that rate this 1000 sq ft deck I would charge 1250.00

if it is ground level, 2nd story I would add 20%, so I would net almost $1,000

and have close to 3 hours of washing, and maybe 5 hours staining sealing..

so after costs it averages about $100 an hour, I believe that is a fair price

[Guest rfitz]

Paul, you never answered my email about washing that brick building,

and what chems to use, did you get my email, ? I also sent you a private message...???