HD-80 Question??????

[John T 744]

This may have been asked before but I can't remember the answer to it so here it goes.

If 8oz of HD-80 to 1 gallon of water is the max. strength mix what happens if I put 16 oz of HD-80 per gallon of water in my x-jet bucket that shoots out 2-1. Does this mean my HD-80 will be hitting the object at full strength(8 oz/gal.) or is the 16oz of HD-80 going into my x-jet bucket makes no difference and Hence its hitting the object at Half strength(4oz) because of the 2-1 the x-jet is shooting out???

Another way of putting this if 8oz HD-80/gallon of water is the max strength then 16oz HD-80/gallon of water is no stronger and if this is true then my x-jet which is shooting out 2-1 is really only applying my mixture of HD-80 at half strength which is equal to 4oz of HD-80/gallon of water. Is that true??

[Aplus 525]

John,

You are mentioning a point that has intrigued me for some time.

If you mix HD80 at 16oz per gallon, it will not completely dissolve in the water....you will have white undissolved residue on the bottom of your pail. You will be xjetting the solution, as well as splattering white residue out the tip.

The way I see it, there is no way to xjet HD80 at full strength.

This may be fine for cases where a weaker mix will do the job, but not when a higher concentration is required. Even if you mix the HD80 at 10oz per gallon,(which I think you can) you still can't get a full strength mix at the output.

Maybe Morgan can share his wisdom on this.

[ParadiseProWash 14]

I am going to touch on this a little bit. I have talked with Beth as many have seen in other post with a little heated discussion about this at times and for fear of starting this all over I would rather not discuss this topic on this board. You can Email me or goto one of the other boards such as thecleanernetwork and I would be glad to discuss this with you. I choose to do this out of respect for Beth and her methods and will not discuss this here as she does not condone the use of HD-80 and X-Jets together. However if she gives me the go ahead I will discuss it here. I hope I have not offended anyone but this is to keep from offending the owners of this board and I do respect them. :D

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Morgan, please address the question here. It's fine. :groovy:

The question being asked is not about who has a better product, it's not about another BBS, it's specifically about if you can get enough product (HD) into solution to use it the way some do at full strength.

I'll kick off the response and you guys can take it from there. The answer is that at 16 oz. per gallon it will not have time to go into solution and properly disolve. The ingredients in HD disolve to different points in water. By this I mean that while some of them might disolve at more than 8 oz, others will not because of saturation in the water. This is why you can't:

1. apply HD at full strength w/ x-jet

2. mix it any stronger regardless of how you apply it

3. the ingredients need time to disolve in order to go into solution

HD was invented with safe application in mind. If it was applied at full strength (which we have said can't be done) with via x-jet it could cause very serious damage. As it stands using an x-jet does not put it on the surface at full strength. You might get half strength. Now even at that, HD will remove many, many coatings however it is not going to give you optimal results in many cases, as this will depend on the product you are removing from the wood.

The only other thing I'll say is that those who have used HD in a pump up or shurflow will tell you it's very caustic and understand why it needs to be applied in a less liberal fashion.

Also keep in mind that this product is not just made from a single ingredient. It's made from MANY ingredients, and is unique in formulation and design.

I'll only say one other thing... if you could (and you can't ) apply HD at true full strength via x-jet you would be surrounded by a cloud of lye. Very dangerous. I have been to multiple sites and seen the results of times when chems were not properly applied, but were applied with less agressive methods such as a pump up or shurflo. Even then problems can arise if you don't take the proper precautions.

Be safe. And please realize that I don't just say it to be controversial. I say it because I care VERY much about all of you, and don't want to see anyone hurt.

Beth :groovy3:

[John T 744]

I have to admit since I started using the x-jet about a month ago to strip fences/decks I have been getting better results then using my flojets/surflo pumps and also getting the job done much faster.

The reason is simple--------with the x-jet the surface getting stripped is flooded by the solution coming out of the x-jet compared to the solution coming out of the Flojet/surflo pumps where you have to keep going over with a mist of water to keep it activating which means lost time.

I recommend for anyone that strips wood to try it. I did and I can't believe the results.

The drawback to this is that BETH is saying that you can't increase the strength of the HD-80 to make it come out with max. strength threw the x-jet. This is where I would like to read MORGANS response to this not that I'm doubting BETH because I'm not. But with that being said I would be willing to bet that BETH has never x-jetted a deck to strip it. Like I said I haven't either Untill last month and I was SURPRISED at how good it worked.

One more point. When I mixed the HD-80 at 16oz/gal. of H20 I due it with a drill. There is hardly any residue at the bottom of my pail by doing it like this. But since BETH is telling me that it makes no difference when I add 16oz to 8oz of HD-80 to increase its strength even though I am disapointed in hearing this I except it as truth untill someone can prove otherwise.

BETH------is it possible to get the creator of HD-80 to respond to this post????

[ParadiseProWash 14]

Ok I got the go ahead so hear it goes. First and formost you need saftey gear when doing this so dont just try this without it. First off I dont have to use the 80 at full strength very often as you can mix it up at full strength and X-Jet to remove most easy stains such as Wolmans, Cuprinol and so forth. In order to get a stronger mix you have to mix the 80 in a 5 or something with a top on it so that you can turn your burner on and use your pressure washer with very hot water to mix the solution. I use a soap tip at 5 gallons a min and I cover the hole up before sqeezing the trigger. This will mix the solution and I use it right away. This has been the only way that I have found to get a stronger mix out of the X-Jet.

!!!!!!!!!!!WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is very dangerous and should be done with the utmost care and caution.

I dont do this very often and really dont recommend this to anyone that doesnt have all the saftey gear. The HD-80 will remove most any stain when mixed full strength and X-Jetted without doing this. But there are times when if you are going to use the X-Jet that you have to do it this way.

Use this method at your own risk like I said I have not had to do this but a couple of times when using the 80. This post if for discussion only please keep all remarks profesional as I dont want my comments to turn into a slam fest because I do realize this is very dangerous.:D

[Everett Abrams 501]

Just wanted to add my two cents. First, I compliment all on the professional and well typed responses. My feeling on the whole issue stems from folks working for us and those who do ALL the work themselves. If you have folks working for you I have a hard time with the liability factor of folks spraying chemicals where there is even a small chance of injury. Even at that I agree with Morgan, if you take all the safety precautions and you are doing it yourself, X-Jet away! I have both set-ups and like both the shur-flo and the x-jet in different circumstances.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

John,

I'm sorry you doubt me. I have used the x-jet. We own several, and I do go into the field with Rod and I have done the work. I have applied HD, EFC, and Cit, as well as Hang Time and Wood Tux. I have used both hot and cold water on a variety of surfaces (cold on wood), can operate a machine, use an extension pole, I know which tip to use, have used a surface cleaner, and from time to time even come up with an idea when we need one for a particular job.

I know what I do because Russell from Extreme has taught us. In fact if you ask him he'll tell you no one has more field time with HD than Rod, since Rod beta tested it, and Rod read my response before I posted it.

You can only mix it so strong before it will change the formulation and become less effective.

Morgan, great post. :)

Beth

[Mike Cappa 14]

Two things, if you x-jet hd 80, it may work, may not, but you will have less control. In some cases you don't need the control, but in some you do.

Morgan, put a ball valve on the end of your hp hose. open the valve, start your rig, water gets hot, put the stream in the bucket. No need for the soap tip, or bucket lid. Much less dangerous.

[ParadiseProWash 14]

Originally posted by EXTREME

Two things, if you x-jet hd 80, it may work, may not, but you will have less control. In some cases you don't need the control, but in some you do.

Morgan, put a ball valve on the end of your hp hose. open the valve, start your rig, water gets hot, put the stream in the bucket. No need for the soap tip, or bucket lid. Much less dangerous.

Mike I do have a ball valve on the end of my hose the purpose of the wand is so that I can get my face as far away from the hole as possible and the purpose for the soap tip is to give it a little more agitation than without one remember you are mixing something that is suppose not to be mixed and is very dangerous we are not talking about mixing it the regular way otherwise your method is the same as mine. We are trying to get twice the amount of powder to dissolve as what the manufactor says will dissolve. I hope this clears it up a bit.:D

[John T 744]

Beth,

I know you have plenty of experience from all ends of the spectrum in this field. I have never doubted that. The only thing that I was asking is have you used the x-jet for stripping wood.

I understand completely the dangers of using HD-80 via x-jet,Flojet or most anyother way to apply it.

The only thing I was questioning was the strength of HD-80 when mixed and used thru an x-jet. I hope you didn't take offense to anything that I was saying for that was not my intent. I know where still pals;)

I now understand that you can't make HD-80 any stronger then the 8 oz per gallon of H20 which is the reason why I started this thread so I can hear this for sure from you very qualified people here.

What are your thoughts about using the x-jet for stripping. Did you like the way it worked as far as keeping the wood soaked with the mixture?? This is the thing that I liked most about using the x-jet when doing this.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

When we first got into the biz, Rod tried using the x-jet for that purpose, before the days of HD-80. But he has not x-jetted HD. He has tried it with other less effective products before its time.

Beth

[Littlefield 65]

In response to whether or not HD-80 CAN be mixed stronger than 8 oz to the gallon, I believe it can. Russell posted the instructions a while back on another board, and I believe took it back down because of liability issues, but in general Morgans post is the way he said to do it. Put powder in closed 5, insert wand, and use hot water, and the extra heat and agitation would allow th HD-80 to remain stable for a couple of hours, after which I got the idea that it would begin to "fall out" of the solution.

[Littlefield 65]

Below is a quote copied and pasted by me, and not a repost by Russell.

We've been playing again!

OK, here you go. . .

I found a way for the average contractor to increase the strength of the HD-80 past my original formulation. Before I go any further put your goggles on! I don't even want you to read this post without eye protection.

I discovered that through a super high speed blending process You can introduce up to one full pound of HD-80 per gallon for what I call Super HD-80 or Liquid Death. The really neat thing is after I did it in the lab we went out in the field and tried to mix it without the high speed mixer.

This is what you have to do for a 5 gallon batch. Protect yourself like you mean it! Respirator, Gloves, Goggles, Rubber Rain Suit. Start with a small amount of water (1/2 Gallon) Add 10 LB HD-80. Use your pressure washer at about 2000 PSI to mix the powder into solution. Obviously you want to do this without blowing the liquid all over. We did it in a 5 gallon tote with a 3" opening.

This formula is not very stable but it is STRONG! You will notice it begin to settle out. While it is in solution it is the strongest stripper any of us has ever seen. You can expect it to hold it's integrity for about one hour. We were able to completely remove about 10 layers of paint in under 30 min.

As a final word of caution, do not even attempt this if you are not completely protected. Do not mix in this manner if you are alone and do not try this unless you have a good amount of experience using caustics. This is not for newbies, you can be severely injured if you get this mixture on you in any way. It will kill any kind of plant life you get it on and it will dissolve aluminum VERY quickly.

If anyone is interested in trying this mixture please call me direct first for more specific instructions.

1-800-336-7924

Best of Luck

Russell Cissell

PS. We are working on a way to stablize this formulation so we can blend it here and ship it ready to apply.

__________________

Russell Cissell

Extreme Solutions, Inc

R. W. Anderson, Inc

1-800-336-7924

[ParadiseProWash 14]

That very post is were I got the idea to do what I posted above. It was posted quite some time ago and was posted by Russell so now you know that the 80 can be mixed stronger but will not stay that strong for very long. John this is the only way I know of to make the 80 strong enough to X-Jet at full strength and like I said before Saftey gear is a must. I hope I have helped you find a way to do it but I also dont recommend any newbie trying this because if you make one slip you will be in the hospital hurting very badly.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Thanks to all for the responses here. I had forgotten about that post by Russ. Morgan is correct, you can get it to be better than half strength this way. However, we too have been told that for liability purposes it shouldn't be done like this.

But, Morgan's post stands and is there if you need it. Be safe. Thank you Morgan for sharing. :groovy: I'm glad you posted it, and hope to see more up here.

Beth :groovy3:

[ParadiseProWash 14]

Originally posted by Beth n Rod

Thanks to all for the responses here. I had forgotten about that post by Russ. Morgan is correct, you can get it to be better than half strength this way. However, we too have been told that for liability purposes it shouldn't be done like this.

But, Morgan's post stands and is there if you need it. Be safe. Thank you Morgan for sharing. :groovy: I'm glad you posted it, and hope to see more up here.

Beth :groovy3:

Beth I read here everyday and will be glad to help people out when I can. I hope your season has gone good. I am getting ready to shift into washing trucks and farm equipment as my residental work has almost dried up. I will shift back into the residental side of work again in the spring.

[Jon 533]

Morgan you have always been welcome here so make no mistake about that.

If ever your in doubt as to whether you should post something or not feel free to Email Beth asking first if you don't want everyone to see you asking in a post.

She won't bite you, trust me.

Rod does the dirty work!

[ParadiseProWash 14]

I know Jon but after some of the Heated discussions I just felt it best to back off from posting here Im sure some of the people on this board were probably saying oh no not that guy again:whoops: I am just an outspoken guy but I have trouble typing my thoughts as I try to take short cuts on the typing. I dont mind helping anyone and will be alittle more active here than I have been in the past year. I hope all is well with you Jon.:D

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Morgan,

What's in the past is in the past. We hope to see more of you on the BBS. :)

Beth