What will happen to iraq?

[Guest Danebob]

Well i would just like to know some thoughts on the war. What is your position now that we are looking at new elections which could turn the the direction of the war. Pulling out is a scary thought. I belive in the war. I have friends family who have been and are going to iraq. It is a real thing to me. I've grown up in the military. The democrats talking about pulling out of iraq is goining to be pushed to occur quickly im afraid. if it happens...well lets just pray that it dosn't.

So what other comments on this subject are out there?

Thanks. GOD SPEED!

[Jeff 232]

By that I assume you mean me. Ok, but let's clarify a few things. 1) I am NOT a republican. 2) Cut and Run is not a campaign slogan. Either we plan to finish what we started or we do not. Either we cut and run, or we stay the course.

I know your not a republican, your with that other losing party LOL Just kidding smiley

I dont think I said it is a campaign slogan althou it was that too

Either we cut & run or we stay the course......... I cant believe you only can see two ways, you are just like GW. Why cant there be a good 3rd or 4th choice. Im surprised at you Phil , being just so black & white, a smart man like you I would have thought you could come up with some constructive ideas & thoughts on this war. Not just stay the course

Finish what we started doesnt mean to me we have to stay the course, does it?

[Jeff 232]

A reason to stay? Because we are not spineless pieces of s**t. We destroyed the place, we stay until they are back on their feet. Any other plan is the plan of men who's word is not worth the paper it is written on.

A winnable plan? We have one. Stay until the Iraqi police/military forces can maintain law and order. What you want is not a plan, it is a timetable. And you don't fight wars on a schedule.

So what we destroyed the place, wars use to be you destroy the place then take over the country, then wars were destroy the place and put in a puppet goverment or a dictator, now wars are we have to be all nice and get them back on their feet , just so they can s**t on us later

A winnable plan.......The iraqi military by all who Ive heard, arent progressing hardly at all

You dont fight wars with a losing plan either you adapt and we dont, our president doesnt even ask us to sacrifice. Does he come out with a Reagan or JFK type of speach and say its time as Americans to give up our SUV, time to get your sons & daughters in the military, does he ask US to join the fight, not really. Why isnt he taking the lead and put millions into alternative energy. HELL we put a man on the moon, but up till now we havent done much to make us less dependent on oil. I blame all our politicians dem & rep. We could have had 50% of all vehicles running on something other than oil by NOW.

Forget about a schedule why dont we just send a million soldiers and bomb them into pieces and go in and take all the damn oil. If little ole Israel can survive in the middle of all these arabs. Im sure we could set up the largest base ever around many of the oil feilds and then we wouldnt have to rely on the rest of the middle. We could have our own Middle East Of America. We are protecting others oil Fields so the Royal families can stay rich, lets just take what we want and screw those crazy muslim arabs. Just a thought, actually sounds like a PLAN. What do you think Phil. Make me prez, they will all be screwed!!!!!!!!!

Another question, what if we cant win this war?? Its a possibility. What if no matter what we cant win, what do we do? Just because we are the USA doesnt mea we cant lose. Its not what I want

[Jeff 232]

Why don't you take a few minutes and tell us what you plan is? Not what is wrong with my plan. Not what we have screwed up so far. Not how much better it could have been.

What is your plan for fixing this situation and in what timeframe does that occur?

My last post I gave you my plan, its only one of the plans I could think of.

PLAN #1 - Take the whole place over & make it ours, oil & all, takes some big bombs for about 2 years, flatten & kill as much as we can, then start sending troops & engineers to rebuild the oil fields and put up big refineries with big oil tanks that Say USA OIL CO. in big red white & blue letters

PLAN #2 NUKE EM

PLAN #3 Go in with overwhelming force and block the borders and kill insurgents that try to come in, but we would need about 1 million of our soldiers, which would mean starting a draft, because we would be stretched to thin.

PLAN #4 - NUKE EM LOL

Phil as I said im not prez or a general I do not have all the answers but Stay the course hasnt got us anywhere, thank god you wont be the next President you'd be another GW and this country needs change and some one who isnt so partisan, someone who can unite.

We ALL love our country

[Jeff 232]

You might not want to make me President, I cant even run the Multi Quote funtion LOL

on to another battle, for truth, liberty & justice for all

[Deck Guy 14]

Didn't I just see on the news where the duly elected head of Iraq was just in meetings with GW and said they wanted us to stay. That would make him a representative of the people of Iraq...giving them a say in their own destiny.

Or did you mean should we allow the CNN poll results determine our actions so far as staying or pulling out?

Kevin,

Why is that you and I seem to get into it on certain subjects. We are two very different people.

I don't give a darn about CNN polls. I watch very little TV news of any kind. I'm more of a reader.

Don't over analize this. You should understand clearly what a majority is. I'm not suggesting that we should simply poll them, or guess at anything.

I'm asking...If the majority (over 50 %) of Iraqi's feel we should leave, should we then begin our draw-down of troops there? It's a hypothetical question, so lets assume that somehow you could be satisfied that this was the case. Isn't that the essence of democracy...allowing them to make this decision? After all, doesn't it seem a bit disingenuous to bring them democracy, then deny it to them when we feel that they don't understand what's in their best interests?

Now...off for a few beers, some Golden Tee Golf, and waitresses in Orange spandex shorts! I bet we could all agree on that!

And I'm with Jeff on one other thing too! How the heck do you guys do the multi-quote thing???

[Jeff 232]

And I'm with Jeff on one other thing too! How the heck do you guys do the multi-quote thing???

Larry, I'm pretty sure its a right wing conspiracy, designed by Bush, Chenney, Ralph Reed, The National Review, Bill O'reilly, Pat Robinson, , Phillip Doolittle, Race Chaser, Fox News, Rush, Savage, Jon Fife,Charlton Heston, Delay, Foley, Ari Fleisher, Ryan H, Ant, JarrodCIA, NSA,Tony Snow, John T & Rove so they can get their messages out quicker and try to quiet the dissent. NEVERRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!

I will NEVER give up they cant make me submit, no matter how much they mess with my Internet Multi Quote and bug my cell phone, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER. They will have to pry my bloody dead fingers off my mouse.............. & cell phone.:USA: :bullistic

[PLD 14]

I'll respond to your other post later. Phil, I dont have all the answers, but it seems to me no one else does either.

I'm not a General, I'm not a President, I'm not a war strategist, Im not an influential Congressman. I dont have an answer for what to do, thats why we elect our leaders, but stay the course isnt a smart thing to do, why would we want a failed policy. Phil give me an idea on a good plan, an actual plan. If you cant please tell our leader to, thats all I'm asking.

Phil its not BS to want a better plan to want to protect our troopsits called being a concered american

No, it's not BS to want a better plan. It is, however, BS to spout on and on about how stupid the other guys plan is yet have no ideas of your own to offer.

Take this post for example. You have said;

I don't have the answers

No one else does

I'm not qualified to lead

what we are doing is not smart

what we are doing is a failure

*** Those statements are completely non-linear. ***

As for my plan, I will reserve that for later as I do no wish to allow the conversation to be diverted from the topic at hand.

[PLD 14]

Yes we are decent people but we cant make a country be like us, just because our president wants them to.

I never suggested that we make them like us. I merely stated that we must stay and fix what we obliterated.

1st we went there because of WMD , then they said it was to democratize Iraq. Put it this way, if Im washing something and it isnt coming clean, I dont stay with the same losing method, I adapt and try to conquer the problem. Stay the course wont get it clean. If by chance I cant get it clean, I'm honest with the customer and tell them

War isn't vinyl siding. It changes as you time passes. It is influenced by hundreds of factors, not the least of which are weatehr, terrain, enemy determination, money. politics, etc.

We started this, but it doesnt mean we have to stay the course. I wouldnt mind staying but give us a workable plan

Give us a workable plan?!? You are in charge now. You give us a workable plan.

[PLD 14]

Why don't you take a few minutes and tell us what you plan is? Not what is wrong with my plan. Not what we have screwed up so far. Not how much better it could have been.

1. Because I'm not running around decrying how f'ed up the current plan is.

2. Because I asked you, and I will not let you deflect the topic back to my opinion.

My last post I gave you my plan, its only one of the plans I could think of.

Your "plan" was complete satire at best, laughable at worst. Even a 4th grader would not qualify your response as a "plan". Hence, do not forth claiming that you have offered you plan. You have offerred mucho criticism about the reps plan, and El Grande Zero suggestions of your own.

Jeff, despite our political differences and heated exchanges I do respect your opinion. Your are in intelligent guy, But this is a ridiculous exchange;

J - Your plan sucks.

P - What do you suggest?

J - I have no idea, but your plan still sucks....

P - Well, make a suggestion.

J - I am not qualified, but your guy is an idiot.

P - What would you do?

J - I don't know, but not what we are doing.

[PLD 14]

I know your not a republican, your with that other losing party LOL Just kidding smiley

Actually, that loser has alot of influence. Take this election for example. The Libertarians constitute 3-5% of the vote. If the Reps get to far right, and they lose the Libertarian vote and the vote goes to the Dems.

Contrary to what the media wants you to thinks, the Libertarians are not a wacko fring group. They are are socially liberal (i.e. Dems) and fiscally conservative (i.e. Reps).

[Jeff 232]

I never suggested that we make them like us. I merely stated that we must stay and fix what we obliterated.

War isn't vinyl siding. It changes as you time passes. It is influenced by hundreds of factors, not the least of which are weatehr, terrain, enemy determination, money. politics, etc.

Give us a workable plan?!? You are in charge now. You give us a workable plan.

1) You didnt , he did.

2)Yes it is

3) No, Oh No, no

[Jeff 232]

No, it's not BS to want a better plan. It is, however, BS to spout on and on about how stupid the other guys plan is yet have no ideas of your own to offer.

Take this post for example. You have said;

I don't have the answers

No one else does

I'm not qualified to lead

what we are doing is not smart

what we are doing is a failure

*** Those statements are completely non-linear. *

As for my plan, I will reserve that for later as I do no wish to allow the conversation to be diverted from the topic at hand.

Not my Job man. The other guys plan? STAY THE COURSE IS NOT A PLAN, once and for all

None of us are informed enough to come up with a plan here on this BB. We just dont have the info, intel and inner workings we need to make an informed plan.

I still would find it interesting to hear your plan

[Jeff 232]

1. Because I'm not running around decrying how f'ed up the current plan is.

2. Because I asked you, and I will not let you deflect the topic back to my opinion.

Your "plan" was complete satire at best, laughable at worst. Even a 4th grader would not qualify your response as a "plan". Hence, do not forth claiming that you have offered you plan. You have offerred mucho criticism about the reps plan, and El Grande Zero suggestions of your own.

Jeff, despite our political differences and heated exchanges I do respect your opinion. Your are in intelligent guy, But this is a ridiculous exchange;

J - Your plan sucks.

P - What do you suggest?

J - I have no idea, but your plan still sucks....

P - Well, make a suggestion.

J - I am not qualified, but your guy is an idiot.

P - What would you do?

J - I don't know, but not what we are doing.

1) You should be

2) My big brother can beat up your big brother , Na Na Na...Na Na

Respect my opinion, intelligent guy...... Now I know your nuts Phillip.

Phil if you havent noticed, I'm sort giving up on this debate, I think I have Midlife Attention Deficit Disorder.

[Jeff 232]

Actually, that loser has alot of influence. Take this election for example. The Libertarians constitute 3-5% of the vote. If the Reps get to far right, and they lose the Libertarian vote and the vote goes to the Dems.

Contrary to what the media wants you to thinks, the Libertarians are not a wacko fring group. They are are socially liberal (i.e. Dems) and fiscally conservative (i.e. Reps).

Sign me up.

Do they have 3-5% in National also, just wondering

I do wish for a viable 3 party system

Back to my A.D.D

Have a good one Phil & all you crazy stay the course guys.

[Jon 533]

Final solution would be to just sluaghter the lot of them and bring our boys and girls home already.

War is hell, the only purpose is to kill the enemy so get on with it and end it once and for all.

Might not be the most likable answer but it is either that or we continue to waste billions on something we shall never win.

Jon

[kevinw 14]

Now...off for a few beers, some Golden Tee Golf, and waitresses in Orange spandex shorts! I bet we could all agree on that!

It's not really orange...it's a shade of umber. Sorry, i just had to do that...somebody stop me, please...I'm starting a debate over Hooter's shorts...I need help.

[Deck Guy 14]

It's not really orange...it's a shade of umber. Sorry, i just had to do that...somebody stop me, please...I'm starting a debate over Hooter's shorts...I need help.

Well, we might not all agree, but we'd all be willing to do more research!

[plainpainter 217]

I have read many of the posts on this board, including ones that disagreed about my post. I don't wish to really comment - other than there are alot of mis truths, especially as to how many people Saddam has killed. If it were true Saddam was responsible for over a half a million innocent deaths, how come he is on trial for only about 150 deaths and not the hundreds of thousands so many people here are stating? I don't really want to waste my time looking through Republican backed websites and their ludicrous lies, Al Franken has shown numerous times when he has referred to statistics gathered by federal government agencies - such as the U.S Census bureau - that they contradict 180 degrees what certain people such as Rush Limbaugh says. For those of you that wish to defend this war, best of luck, if 'we stay the course' Nothing good will come of it and things will continue to get worse. And if you remember, the 9/11 report said there was never any credible evidence of any weapons of mass destruction. But so long as people like Cheney kept repeating the lies - many of you believed them. It reminds of a certain platform the Nazi's use to use, the bigger the lie - the better people believe 'em. And the sense of fear this administration has sold the american public is disgusting. And to answer questions about Hilary Clinton - what a joke. Leaver her alone, she's a nobody. I am a democrat and I am no fan of Hilary, and the big reason is she was behind this president 100% from the beginning and supporting the war. And as much as I don't like her - I dare any of you to actually give me one shred of evidence that she hasn't supported our troops. Everybody I know, politician, neighbor, to the people who hold 'peace' signs at busy intersections have supported our troops 100% percent. The only persons that hasn't supported our troops has been this very administration. But many of you probably would never know that since you're too busy wrapping yourselves in the American Flag. FYI - in the early fifties there was a treaty drawn up with Japan, that basically said american soldiers couldn't sue any japanese or japanese nationals over war atrocities - unless a similar agreement was brokered with some other country. Then a few years ago, the netherlands came up with an agreement that allowed their citizens to be able to sue. So guess what - our State Department stuffed that information - and went so far as to make any settlements that our soldiers won in court - to be paid out by American taxpayers, anybody but big business interests in Japan. Your free to stick your heads in the ground, but we aint' accomplishing anything by remaining in Iraq - they are violent people and we can't change them. You don't see protestant death squads in this country pegging off catholics - do you? We are civilized - they aren't, and they have to work out their own issues - and we have to bring back the rest of our boys home. We did the job we asked them too - and now we are fumbling because we have no course or direction and no real goals of success.

[PLD 14]

We are civilized - they aren't

Yep. Them A-rabs are uncivilized. Come to think of it, so are them injuns. And nig-ruhs too. Should've killed 'em all when we had the chance.

P.S. I'd luv to stay and chat, but I've gotta go get my robe from the dry cleaners.

[PLD 14]

Sign me up.

Do they have 3-5% in National also, just wondering

Yes. They were likely a significant part of the democratic victory in 06.

Read on: http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6735

[PLD 14]

Phil if you havent noticed, I'm sort giving up on this debate, I think I have Midlife Attention Deficit Disorder.

Gee, I hate to see you go so soon. It's only 5 pages into the debate. I was hoping that in another two or three pages you might actually offer a plan other than "your plan sucks".

[Jeff 232]

Gee, I hate to see you go so soon. It's only 5 pages into the debate. I was hoping that in another two or three pages you might actually offer a plan other than "your plan sucks".

Your plan s--ks.........Once again since you must of missed it...... STAY THE COURSE IS NOT A PLAN.. Is it Phil???

Why are you so wanting a plan from me Phil so you can rip it apart. No one pays me to lead this country and make plans, I did giive ideas, If I came up with the best plan in the world you would still rip it apart, because you have some of the same mindset of Bush...tunnel vision. Except you dont want to leave the country in a mess , Bush wants to democrtize it. Im fearful both are losing causes

We completed our job in Iraq, there are no WMD's, Saddam & his sons are gone, We helped set the ground floor for democracy, we still will be there for some time even if we start to redeploy in a year or so. But our military shouldnt be a police force in the middle of another counties Civil War. Why are our boys dieing in someone elses Civil War. The majority of Americans, the majority of politicians, both dem & rep, the majority of elder statesmen, the majority of military experts & scholars all say it time for a change of course. They all may be wrong and you & George Bush may be right, but your as stubborn as Bush and just being stubborn doesnt make you right, it just make you stubborn

That should be good for another 2 pages at least for you Phil. Im just getting bored, because you have not offered anything to keep my intrest, except to knock my comments, Boringggggggggg. I expected more from my arch enemy LOL

[PLD 14]

Your plan s--ks.........Once again since you must of missed it...... STAY THE COURSE IS NOT A PLAN.. Is it Phil???

Yes, it is. It is not one that you like, but it is a plan.

Why are you so wanting a plan from me Phil so you can rip it apart. No one pays me to lead this country and make plans, I did giive ideas, If I came up with the best plan in the world you would still rip it apart, because you have some of the same mindset of Bush...tunnel vision. Except you dont want to leave the country in a mess , Bush wants to democrtize it. Im fearful both are losing causes

I do not have, nor have I ever had, any intentions of disecting your plan. I was just letting you prove my point; that the anti-Bush crowd loves to criticize the Bush's handling of Iraq, yet has NOTHING to offer as an alternative.

Again, were back to that ludicrous, circular, debate:

J - Bush's plan sucks.

P - What do you suggest?

J - I have no idea.

P - Perhaps it is the best given the circumstances.

J - No, it is terrible plan.

P - Well then you must have thoughts of your own.

J - Yes, Bush's plan sucks.

P - Should we stay?

J - Hell no! That is stupid.

P - Then we should get out.

J - I'm not staying that.

P - Well, what are you saying?

J - Bush's plan sucks.

Im just getting bored, because you have not offered anything to keep my intrest, except to knock my comments, Boringggggggggg. I expected more from my arch enemy LOL

How could I have knocked your comments, you haven't made any other than Bush sucks...

[PLD 14]

None of us are informed enough to come up with a plan here on this BB. We just dont have the info, intel and inner workings we need to make an informed plan.

Who does have the "info, intel and inner workings we need to make an informed plan" Perhaps the Secretary of State? The Secretary of Defense? The President? I could be wrong but it seems to me like the people who have access to the "info, intel and inner workings we need to make an informed plan" have already made one.

Also, if it is true that "We just dont have the info, intel and inner workings we need to make an informed plan." then is it not reasonable to also say that "We just dont have the info, intel and inner workings we need to make an informed decision about someone else's plan."

[Jeff 232]

Yes, it is. It is not one that you like, but it is a plan.

I do not have, nor have I ever had, any intentions of disecting your plan. I was just letting you prove my point; that the anti-Bush crowd loves to criticize the Bush's handling of Iraq, yet has NOTHING to offer as an alternative.

Again, were back to that ludicrous, circular, debate:

J - Bush's plan sucks.

P - What do you suggest?

J - I have no idea.

P - Perhaps it is the best given the circumstances.

J - No, it is terrible plan.

P - Well then you must have thoughts of your own.

J - Yes, Bush's plan sucks.

P - Should we stay?

J - Hell no! That is stupid.

P - Then we should get out.

J - I'm not staying that.

P - Well, what are you saying?

J - Bush's plan sucks.

How could I have knocked your comments, you haven't made any other than Bush sucks...

1) No it isn'ttttttttttttt

2) See what I mean

3) Boringggggggggggg. I'm still going to get my big brother to beat up your big brother, Na na na na ......... na na

I may be wrong, we might not be able to get another 2 pages