Why commercial work is hard to get here...

[Rfitz 14]

Just for an example on how Property managers are so out of touch with reality,

About 2 months ago, I qouted a 76000 sq ft fence job for a condo complex here locally, my quote was just under $34,000 that is for pressure washing and sealing both sides, which I thought was a steal for them, since they only have 2 maintenance men that told me please bid this job, we dont want to do it and dont think we could with all of other work here we have to get done, anyway the PM company got back with me and siad the price was to high and they will have it done by their maint. men, so my reply was after all material cost and labor they will pay more by doing it in house, than subbing out to a company that specializes in this and does it on a daily basis, I had a company tell me this last year, and after they saw what their in house guys got done in 6 months, they have hired us now to take over, it was basiclally going to cost double our original bid if they continued doing it in house, but like most PM companies, they really dont realize the cost involved in doing projects this big, material, labor, etc..

But all I can do is try and educate them and move on,

[seymore 90]

Rob that's 76000 sqft total including both sides?

How long/tall is the fence?

[Celeste 341]

This post has brought an interesting question to mind where GL comes in. It is somewhat difficult to get a good General Liability policy that covers what we do......I wonder if a HOA's insurances cover if their in-house guys maintenance guys mess something up? I mean, our policy won't pay if we screw something up because we were stupid (accidents, yes, stupidity, no) If the maintenance guys went out and tried to PW this fence and damaged it.....would the HOA insurance cover it?

This might seem to be a really good thing to be able to put into your proposal Rob, if it's the case. If you make a general equation sheet showing their cost of inhouse work (taking into consideration the man-hours, increase in WC premiums due to higher payroll, etc...) AND you can show them that their insurance may be lacking in the "what if they mess it up" department.....might open some doors a little wider for you?

Celeste

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

We came in around that figure too. That is one hell of a big job and would take a crew of 3 guys around 5-6 days (weather permitting) to complete. Now my estimate is based upon just the fence having not seen the landscape, the trees, bushes, dividing fences apportioned to any private yard that may increase time and other obstacles that could impede the work progress.

Using WTW for example, just the product alone would run 19k before shipping. That's 55% of the job cost before you get into fuel, chemicals, applicator supplies, tarps, plastic and anything else a company may use to complete the work. This does not include any travel time expenses for labor and fuel, insurance and vehicle payments accrued monthly in addition to overhead percentages which should be part of the calculations.

Now, a contractor would be movin their butt to get the job done and maintain schedules and keep O.T. as low as possible. On site people are working their usual 8 hours and would not be motivated to move any faster as it is their regular job. They have other work to do but that goes with the job and when they get to it, they get it done...in an 8 hour a day attitude. This job would probably take them at least a month to complete and the results cannot be spoken for as no one can attest to their abilities to use a power washer, knowledge of chemicals to use (if any), application knowledge etc....

My advice to P.M.'rs is to shop the market and make a budget to fit this type of maintenance. They spend 10's to 100's of thousands of $$$$$$$ on landscaping and mowing alone each year. This should not be that big of a deal unless they just don't have any idea as you had mentioned by being out of touch with the market.

This type of job would need to be done on a 5 year basis depending on the product, preparation and application methods. At that point, it is only maintenance and the process would probably cost them <+> 5%-10% depending on product costs, labor costs and other fluctuating (mostly rising) incidentals.

Rod!~

[Rfitz 14]

Beth, the landscape is a difficult one, this how it is set up, each building is approx. 150 ft long, each unit has a small back yard each back yard is seperated by fence dividers, the privacy fences are all 6 ft high, we did a job like this last year, and needless to say the tennants didnt move anything away from their fences, so we now have additional cost in moving items away from the fences in the back yards, which on the last job took about 10-15 minutes per back yard, I left them a message yesterday stating that by having a company like mine do the job we would save them approx. 30% to 50% on this job because of the hourly maint men mentality, they have no reason at all to get the job done right or fast, I just hope they understand my logic, if not it will be a expensive and frustraing learning experience for them, I will contact them again this week with a spreadsheet stating the facts and figures of why they would save alot of money by subbing this work out, I have a feeling that if they dont listen, they will contact us after they attemp this job after a month or so, and realize they were incorrect about their decision.. that is all I can do, and let them live and learn...

[Celeste 341]

OMG - your bid was for a bunch of whacked up stuff......not all one nice neat line. We'd never have gotten it :(

Celeste