Seal or No Seal

[pressurewizard 14]

Hello all - Got any interesting question from a homeowner today that we were out cleaning off mortar off his new brick residence. He asked if there was a seal to put on brick surfaces to protect over time. Is anyone aware of a seal for brick we could suggest to him that masons may use or is something like this not really ever done on brick? Thanks

[sflasealcoating 14]

Do not seal Clay Brick you will be sorry lol. Ive been working with a few companies to make a water based brick product but none so far have worked without turning white over time. Clay is very porous and holds lots of moisture and most brick manufacturures dont condone sealing anyway. Makes Clay brittle.

[pressurewizard 14]

10-4. Thanks for the input Cody. I was thinking the same after speaking with my brother who is a brick layer. He recommends staying away from it too. Have a good one.

[V-SEAL 14]

Robbie,

Good questions. Unfortunately the advice you've been hearing so far is only "partially correct." Yes, if you seal with the wrong type of product it can produce some really big issues for you down the road. The "white" appearance described thus far is efflorescence and CAN be made worse with the wrong sealer. The spalling problems are usually freeze/thaw related and can occur with the wrong sealer, or with no sealer. What's the answer then? Pick an appropriate breathable sealer with a vapor transmission rate - this will give it enough breath-ablity to allow moisture vapor in the brick to dry. Even better, pick one that also locks up the lime content of the mortar to help prevent efflorescence from ever happening. We have two such sealers that we offer. VSeal 101 and VStop, depending upon the kind of brick we are dealing with. Give us a call and we can help you decide which one is best and how to help your customer while collecting more money on this job.

Thanks,

Keith@Vseal.com

Toll Free - 877-73V-SEAL

877-738-7325

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Robbie & Cody... iwould take what Keith said straight to the bank...

[sflasealcoating 14]

Go ahead and do it and call me in a year and let me know howeverthing looks... Ive been in the brick paver business for over 10 years including sales and installation for brick america we manufactured bricks here in south florida and have yet to find ANYTHING that wont turn white on clay (not from freeze/thaw from moisture content and 50-90% humidity practically year round in florida) or make brittle after multiple applications this includes water base sealers. If it works for you and the homeowners happy then great but I wouldnt recommend it to any of my customers and you asked for opinions so take from them what you will.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Cody, What is it that your saying exactly? Are you saying that industry has not developed waterbased silicate penetrating sealers suitable for concrete and brick or just not suitable for brick? I wonder if your basing brittle outcomes and film whitening on solvent based penetration attempts and plain old acrylic topcoating type sealers...

They been making the silicate stuff for over a decade now for concrete and has been engineered for the wood care field recently as well..

First I heard and read literature about it was while working for a concrete engineering facility that did the compression testing of field cores about 15 years ago. It was marketed for bridges or structures that weren't originally made dense enough to keep water out. One would think it has been tested long enough now to say it works or doesn't.. If you are refering to these type products as not working then maybe Keith and many other people don't know what they are doing in recommending it for brick.. Go figure..it won't bethe first time industry sold us lies .. :)

[sflasealcoating 14]

Im speaking of water base products as well as xylene,touline based acrylic products. And this is Specifically for CLAY brick. Take a look at a true Old chicago old newyork ect there are about 25 different orginal makers of the bricks dating back to the late 1700's in US. Real old chicago brick is freighted in to south florida and other states and a majority of it can be from 50-to over 100 years old and is Already brittle. There are so many pores in a clay brick its like trying to seal a sponge. With the moisture content in the air as well as many lots here in florida the bedding sand, mason or gunite can be moist for months even during our 100 degree summers.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Robbie,

Below is part of a FAQ via The Brick Industry Association Bia Offices and the South Western Brick Institute. Perhaps it will help you understand the differences and requirements that should be present in selection of a sealant, stain, or paint in allowing outbound water vapor trasmission versus inbound moisture transmission. Mind you no one is saying that it must be sealed though.

Genuine Fired Clay Brick

Should brickwork be painted?

A brick wall may be painted, provided the correct preparation is done and the proper paint is applied correctly. Generally, new brick walls are not painted. But they can be. However, the wall should be allowed to fully cure for 28 days and shouldn’t be cleaned or treated with acid solutions. You’ll need to use alkali-resistant paints. You may also need a zinc chloride or zinc sulfate solution to neutralize the surface.

Painting brick doesn’t compensate for improper construction and detailing practices. Any deficiencies -- surface deposits, broken brick, inadequate flashing and weep holes, and cracked, loose or missing mortar -- should be corrected prior to painting. In addition, the brick should be thoroughly cleaned and given ample time to dry before applying paint.

For brickwork to function properly, the wall must resist moisture penetration and be permeable to vapor from the structure. Any paint applied to the wall must also have these same characteristics. In addition, the inherent features of a brick wall that channel water out, such as weep holes and vents, must not be clogged by paint or caulk that would inhibit the flow of water.

Latex and Portland cement-based paints perform well on brick walls. Oil-based, alkyd, rubber and epoxy paints don’t allow any vapor in the wall to escape and, consequently, shouldn’t be applied to brick. Prior to painting, the brick should receive a prime coat suitable for the paint application, per the manufacturer's instructions.

Should a water repellent be applied to a brick wall?

Generally, water repellents are only an interim solution to water penetrating a brick wall, since they lose their ability to repel water one to 10 years after they’re applied. It’s also important to keep in mind the inherent nature of water repellents.

There are basically two types of water repellants: films and penetrants. Films, such as acrylics, stearates, mineral gum waxes, urethanes and silicone resins, form a thin membrane over the brick. Penetrants, such as silanes, siloxanes and blends, actually penetrate the brick surface. Films are good at repelling water, but poor at permitting water vapor transmission, which allows the wall to breathe. Penetrants, on the other hand, are good at both. They usually have a matte finish, while films may produce a higher sheen. Penetrants also allow any water present in the brick to exit the wall. However, penetrants will not provide graffiti-resistance to a wall, while some films will.

Applying a water repellent does not compensate for improper brick construction and detailing procedures. Any deficiencies in a brick wall, such as inadequate flashing, weep holes, mortar joints or broken brick, should be corrected prior to the application of a water repellent. The wall should also be cleaned and allowed to thoroughly dry before using a water repellent.

[V-SEAL 14]

Cody,

Again, yes you are correct with some of your response here. And frankly the "last" thing we'd ever suggest is that people apply an acrylic type product (solvent or water base) to a clay brick wall. You might get away with it, but I'd be willing to bet in your climate you'd see a pretty quick hazing up or blushing of the acrylic resin (and that would likely be what you've seen as”whitening.") Acrylic resins will also likely trap moisture for the first year or two in a clay fired brick.

FYI we suggest sealers for brick all the time. There are a LOT more things on the market today than just the old "b-flat" acrylics. And there are a dozen more categories than just water or solvent. Today we have silane, siloxane, silicate, siliconate, silicone, urethane, urethane epoxy blends, fluoropolymers and that doesn't even touch on polyurea or other forms of chemistry. I could go on, but I'd rather suggest you come to the next round table Beth and Rod invite us to or sign up for our training classes in the fall or January following world of concrete.

FYI, those on this board who know me know this... We don't "sell" our sealers. We educate, explain, and provide free consulting. Most of what you get from us on the phone would cost you hundreds elsewhere AND we don't toot our own horn with regard to products. We provide a LOT of manufacturer’s products Prosoco, Tamms, Euclid and about 60 other manufacturers with somewhere around 300 products we distribute.

Power washers love us for four reasons. 1. Free consulting without the bull. We tell you if something will work and if something won't. We don't sell just "our" formulas. 2. PW's get the kind of support that others are paying thousands for in a "franchise" type scenario. 3. They get products "usually" less money through us than they can direct to the manufacturer. But even if we are 50 cents more than that on a gallon they usually get it through us because of the time and advice we give. And they like that we don't only suggest one product.

What I'm trying to say here is that I don't have a dog in this fight. If you want a sealer that works on brick. Then give us a call and we'll walk through all the diagnostics and suggest one that will accomplish what you want. Those who've used us know we're not here to "lie" to you.

PS, not all of the formulas listed above would be for brick. They are merely listed here to illustrate that there is a LOT to learn in the sealer industry... some work great for some things and lousy for others. We tell guys all the time, you can spend your hours on the internet trying to memorize all the info that our tech team and 3 chemists already know... or you can memorize our phone number and spend your time picking up more money on each job site by calling us.

We're here to help guys - I think you can tell by the limited number of posts we're not here to spam. If I can help you pick up more money on a job, give me a call. Most times we can give you a quote, while you are writing up the estimate in your truck.

Lastly, MMI Enterprises has given some excellent info on coatings and sealers on brick from a very good source. But here are 3 reasons you can tell you customer why they should pay you MORE money now to seal the brick you just cleaned.

1. Helps the mortar to last longer (tuck pointing is expensive).

2. Help stop the efflorescence. (Which is usually the mortar losing mineral content -read weakens mortar- on the wall.) Keep in mind sometimes its from another source, ie sprinklers in hard water areas.

3. Finally in YOUR climate, to help keep this mold and algae growth off the wall.

Thanks,

Keith@Vseal.com

Toll Free - 877-73V-SEAL

877-738-7325