RPetry

Beth, Hmmm. That label looks somewhat familiar. Very nice 5 gallon quick pour bucket. And that color name sounds like something I've heard before. Strange. Any other colors available? Personally, do not like the orange-yellow look.

I'm tempted to book a flight to Ca. and help Matt Calkins with that pro footballer's ipe' job he posted yesterday. Did you see that 10 foot wall built with 6 x 6 solid ipe'? Unbelievable.

Holy Smokes Matt, I just took another look at your pictures. Is that last one of the wall actually built of 6 x 6 ipe' stock? Sure looks like it. If so, that one wall cost a fortune in material costs. These people spent some serious cabbage on their ipe'. And tell the customer to trash that crappy looking PT under the bench in the first picture. Talk about bad design and ruining the look of great wood...

Matt, I would be totally upfront and honest with the customer. Explain that ipe' is rare in your area and you are unfamiliar with the wood. But you made an effort to consult with other wood contractors around the US that do work on ipe', and your recommendations are .... I did this a few times when just starting out and good customers appreciate the honesty. Try to find out the exact history of the wood. If never weathered, I would try and sell a strip, neutralize, and contract to come back next year to clean, neutralize, buff and stain. Ipe' looks ok weathered, it degrades to a silver patina look. And honestly, in my experience, any good stain on ipe' will last a lot longer when the wood has naturally weathered for a year. Oh, one more thing. Forget about the normal sales pitch about protecting the wood. Ipe' is so dense and durable, that deck and fence will last late into your grandchildren's lifetime without one cleaning or ever seeing a stain.

Matt, One more thing. If bidding the job, make sure you include time to 3M pad Makita buff, or light 60 grit sanding over the ipe'. With ipe', even a percarb cleaning on bare wood leaves tiny little hairs, similar to the dreaded fuzzies. Without removal, many stains will look blotchy. Properly done, ipe' can look like fine furniture, if only for a few months! I always pull this picture out, it is one of my favorites with a long, but kind of sad story. The old WoodZotic mix, which is 50/50 brown sugar/western cedar WoodTux mix on ipe' done in August of last year. Stopped by and looked at it this past April. Very little stain left on the floor, but the vertical wood was in decent condition. I know the history of this deck. Stained with Messmers immediately after construction and then with WoodTux 8 months later. Lack of stain lifetime is not a WoodTux problem, it is the nature of the wood and a customer problem. Sometimes customers will just not listen. Advised to let it weather, but the owner just had to have it look like a million bucks, after spending 60K having it built. IMO, he wasted over 2K in staining costs.

Matt, Ipe' is a whole new ballgame. For staining, aside from teak, and other closely related exotic hardwoods, there is nothing like it. You stated: I do not know the typical stain performance in Ca., but here on the East Coast people are doing well to get a full year of stain life on an ipe' deck before a maintenance is due. You may get 2 yrs. on the fence, but I would not guarantee it. Through experience with my own ipe' deck and those of customers, I am convinced of one thing. The best thing an owner can do with an ipe' deck is to strip, brighten, and just let it weather for a full year. Once the natural extractives near the surface of the wood are leached out by precipitation, and/or burned out by the sun's UV, a good stain has a chance of lasting a year before maintenance. Same thing with teak furniture. I've got two brushed in apps of RS med. red on my ipe' now that was applied in April of 2007. It is getting spotty and definitely needs a maintenance. But this was done after a year of weathering. Otherwise, there would be no way my ipe' could ever take two apps. of RS. It is extremely dense, naturally oily wood. Just wait 'till you strip it. The rinse water looks like blood.

Matt, I feel your pain. From your exposition, you certainly go to great effort to communicate and please all of your customers. More so than maybe 99% of contractors out there. You become accustomed to praise and accolades for your work, so when the odd ball shows up, it feels like a kick in the teeth. Water off a duck's back. Some pushy, prig lawyer, that is not worth your services. The check better clear, or else she is one stupid lawyer. One piece of advice that has served us well over the years. We always put down a sample stain color or two on their wood for approval. I realize in this case due to "vacation", on site approval was not possible. Try and blow it off. Get back to satisfying the other 99.6% of your customers.

Mike, This is the look of the old WoodZotic mix on ipe'.

Rod, I believe it. A pig is still a pig until proven otherwise. Slick "green" marketing of a questionable product. Some of these nonsense exterior stain marketers are no better than "lose weight fast with our diet" charlatans on midnight TV. The sad thing is, both may be great money makers.

Mike, The old, yesteryear WoodZotic was just a mix of two colors of ESI's WoodTux line of stains. One part "brown sugar" and one part "western cedar" is exactly WoodZotic. AFAIK, there is no stain that will preserve the "natural" look of dry, sanded ipe' for any length of time. For your size ipe' job, 4 gallons total of WoodTux stain should be enough.

Heavy oxalic user.

Mike, Sorry, we have only used the RS redwood only formula once in 8 yrs. of business, and that was on an old growth redwood deck. Will be using it for a 2nd time next month, but again, on old growth redwood. My point was you probably can use regular RS on your redwood siding job, just do a test spot beforehand. From what I understand, California wood contractors use regular RS all the time on redwood decks and homes. We use the regular RS at times on redwood sided hot tubs installed on decks. Again, not a problem. But this is "young" wood, not tannin loaded old growth redwood from 200+ year old trees.

Greg, Nice DIY job. I can't say I like the color, too red on PT SYP. But then again its not my deck!

Kevin, Daniel, and Rod, Thanks for the links, the technical info is interesting. But my fundamental question pertains to exterior wood stain products. Aside from VOC compliance restrictions due to solvents, why would any manufacturer produce a hybrid, ie: water and oil, stain? I do not see any benefit, just possible downside, to the wood contractor and retail customer.

Beth, That is my job in life. Ask my poor helper, Chris. He is 20 yrs. old going on 45 after two seasons with me. Some one has to teach the young' uns.

Warning. Politically and medically incorrect response. AFAIK, Strep Throat has nothing in common with NaOH mist exposure. I personally stopped using a respirator years ago due to the sweat and uncomfort in the heat of the summer. The wind usually does blow from a primary direction. When spaying NaOH, try and stay above wind. If the fog comes your way, breathe through the nose, and just get out of the way. Common sense goes a long way. But then again, I smoke 2 packs of cigarettes a day. A little sodium hydroxide is nothing. Still kicking, if anyone here is listening tell Judy I want to be buried in an active volcano.

Daniel, Thank you. Another fine exposition on the history of coatings. To be honest, I do not understand a lot of this, and choose to remain an idiot. I do know that if we are forced at some point not to use an oil based (without water solvents or carriers) stain on exterior wood, I will close up shop. Gettin' close to retirement anyway!

Rod, You stated: Hah! The meaning of life has become much more clear lately. Something like "grow old gracefully"! Hard to do, but trying. Greenies are not a problem. A case and a half in the beer fridge at the moment. Gotta' grab one, be back in a moment... Ah, better. Your explanation of carrier and solvent is very good and even understandable to those of us chemistry impaired. But solvents have another purpose, that is to facilitate the stain resins and pigments to penetrate into the wood. Another thread here today discusses just that. Regular RS and redwood only RS differences in "old growth" redwood tannins appearing on the surface of the wood. The difference, as I understand it, is in the solvents of the two products. And this bipolar mixing of oil and water based, or oil and water carrier exterior stains for wood does not seem right. Does not feel right. And sounds like a crock to me.

Mike, Western red cedar, of any age, has never been a problem for us using regular RS stains. We have stained a lot of cedar decks over the years without problem, and some white cedar fences. Regular RS "mellows" out in coloring on most woods in about a week. It is the very old growth redwood, from ancient trees, that turns black, with regular RS. And the result is immediate. Black as coal, as the regular RS seems to push up the natural tannins in the redwood. I am told that it ages to a regular stain color, but cannot vouch or bet on it as I have to satisfy customers. AFAIK, the difference between the two is solvents. Just do a test spot on the redwood siding. It is very obvious, and real quick. Call Peirce with any questions, as his contractors deal with redwood a lot more than we do.

Rod and/or Kevin, Whether water solvent or carrier, care to comment on how this works with an oil? I do not get this at all.

Kevin, I do not know. Call Peirce, his number is on the Ready Seal web site. The two redwood decks here in NJ I have seen were both very old, one definitely, the other probably, very old growth lumber. Lumber that comes from 200 yr. + trees. Loaded with natural extractives. Both turned black when a test spot of regular RS was applied. Have not started on the 2nd one yet but the first job came out great with the RS redwood only stain. Funny thing is, I was told that even the regular RS looks fine after about 2 weeks on old growth. May take that long for the whatever to leach off. Who knows. I know that if it does not look like a million bucks on day one, I have a problem. Again, heresay, but newer, young growth redwood can take regular RS just fine.

Greg, Did you use a pressure washer to clean the wood? If not, you may want to buy, borrow, or rent one. Just be careful.

Well educated happily back to basics.

Matt, You asked I believe that acrylics are classified as a waterborne products.