Beth n Rod

Do you ask your clients how good of a job you did? Beth

It's funny how things do change. Today, I would say the BBS's are contenders. Beth

Had to bump this....

Bump - saw this on another thread...

Bump....time to read this folks...

Another classic...

Bump...

Bump...

Here's a classic...

Bump....

Bump...this is good for newbies...and those who are refining methods.... Beth

For quite a while now, TGS has offered a Job Leads forum and many of our users have benefited from leads shared here. Just a reminder it takes all of us to make this worthwhile. Many of us get calls from outside of our service areas, and we can all help each other's bottom line by sharing them among us. Here's to a profitable 2008! Beth

Bump!

Well from what I can tell....none of the major popular oils in our area are doing that....Not TWP, Sikkens, Cabot, WT or others. All of them just lowered VOC's... How high is the tax? Just curious...it must be high if no one is doing it. Beth

As an ingredient, any organic compound counts toward the product's reactivity based limit. So if it shoots the VOC's way up, it doesn't matter which list it is on. The product still has a threshold as I read the EPA guidelines.... Beth

Guys...click the epa link...acetone is on the bad boy list. EPA: Group/Component List : Beth

Artillery fungus most likely. Beth

That was cute! Beth

Coverage rate is marginal relative to the grits you have mentioned above. My whole premise is that we are talking about outdoor structures, not indoor where the temperature and humidity levels do not fluctuate to the degree found in the outdoor environment. Rough sawn wood is not the issue. I am referring to decking material which was the basis of a members question. Tried and true does apply because rough sawn wood is the lazy mans answer to getting longevity from paint. Sanded wood brings in a whole new scope of techniques and requires attention that you and I obviously employ. I feel yours is radically different in respect to the use of grit and the purpose of each. I come from the 'old school' of practices and you seem to be looking to reinvent the wheel in some way. I admit that technology is changing but when I read the manufacturers label and see consistently that 60-80 grit is the highest recommended for use in outdoor applications, I fail to see your point for finely sanded wood (anything above 80 grit) with todays technology viable. In the "old" days they were using lead based paints and Shellac. Various oils were used to gain penetration of stains that were applied before the varnish or shellac finish. For outdoor wood, they used to dip wood with Kreosote to keep it from decaying. This was used in telephone/telegraph poles, railroad ties, water tower timbers and so on. This was consistent with the "technology" of the time. We have come along way with the technology we use today but the wood is still the same. We know more about wood now than then. Grit factors still remain a contingency. I guess that may never change as wood still acts the same now as it did then regardless of species. Permeability (not to be confused with penetration) is a stronger factor in some of the imported species but this is overcome with solvents and binders which help to create the basis of chemical bonding. Rod!~

There will always be a difference in longevity between horizontal and vertical surfaces. But it is sad that horizontal surfaces aren't performing anywhere near where they were. Beth

Acetone, Zylene, specific Alcohols, Ketones and other carriers for various feedstocks fall under voc restrictions. These are some of the common coating/stain/sealer ingredients that also fall under HAP (Hazardous Air Pollutants) regulated voc's. For a complete list visit this link: EPA: Group/Component List : It is not just Mineral spirits (aka Stoddard Solvent) thats the primary substance. The other components add to the voc content and influence the amount of solvent based pigments and resins that can be used in the product which is why Wood Tux and many others are not lasting anywhere as long as they used to. Many of the quality ingredients had to be reduced in order to fall under the threshold. I don't blame you or anyone else for that matter as the fines and imprisonment repercussions would surely close down a business otherwise. Let's just not try to lead people into thinking it was one specific substance when there are at the time of this post 231 specific substances being regulated, some of which used to provide what we knew and loved. I can't remember the conversations in totality but a chemist and other sources in manufacturing the products we use have given me a deeper view into the regulations. I know in the past, Beth and I have been ones to validate it was just the mineral spirits based upon what Mr. Cissell has told us, but truth be known, the impact is far reaching in the implications. No need to be defensive as all are effected and having to deal with inferior products in comparison to the pre-voc mandate which put us all in a position of having to make some tough decisions for our companies and our customers who depend on us to recommend something that will last and we don't really have any definitive choices to offer. Rod!~

If you don't think your state is affected of going to be in the future, you might want to read this. http://www.icipaintsstores.com/web/docs/VOCNewsletter_2_en.pdf Beth

Very cool stuff Greg! Beth :)

I dunno. We all have to make a living. I don't get it either. Beth

Well, I guess we will have to disagree. And, I can back up my statements. I have spoken to chemists in the coatings industry, as well as to manufacturer reps for many companies who used to all produce very decent oil based products, all of which have been altered to comply with the VOC laws changing, and in anticipation of this spreading to other states. In fact, you can still buy the "good" TWP, if you happen to live in a state that was not effected. Those in "greener" states - well, we can't. There are other things that emit VOC's - it's not just the mineral spirits. Gasoline, nail polish remover, alcohol, and paint are also culprits. There are other things effected. We have seen firsthand, that the coating made before 2005 held up better than the same named and brand of product after that date. The changes have had a HUGE impact on the products and performance, and on the coatings industry. There are companies looking for newer technology to replace top selling longer lasting items. And as a contractor, I know I am not going to give the same reassurance for longevity of product I once did. Why? Because it's best to be honest about the life expectation of a product. Beth :cup: :groovy3: