Beth n Rod

Looks like PT to me too. :) Beth :cup:

That's pt lumber, no doubt. Rod!~

The fasteners are not Hot dipped Galvanized or coated to withstand the chemicals in the pressure treated wood. They are corroding and will continue to create the stain. Acid may exacerbate the problem by furthering the corrosion process. The remedy is to remove the fasteners and replace them. The stains will not go away completely, but at that point they could be lightened. I am sure the homeowner is not ready for the price tag on such an endeavor so take the time to explain it to them so they can understand why it will not go away. It is a pre-existing condition that you are not responsible for. ie. you didn't put the nails/screws in the wood. Rod!~

Alkyd is listed on the MSDS sheet.... Beth

You can spray it, not a problem. Beth

Current MSDS sheets fro two of the products are here: http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/chemicals-safety/11261-wood-tux-woodrich-msds-sheets.html Beth

Finally! Had to contact the company that blends it after asking ESI since May. About 3 hours after I asked the company that blends/makes it (Amerigo), it was sent to me. Many people here use it, so here you go. Beth p.s. I have changed the files per ESI request to reflect alternate emergency phone numbers. BB~ esiwtwmsds07001.pdf esiwrmsds07001.pdf

You are very welcome! :) Beth

Steve congrats!!!! What wonderful news. Beth

The approach still works, but you can apply it using various tools. Beth :cup:

Hi Steve, Good to see you here! Hope you are having a great season. Beth

I have covered the most salient items on this subject in my previous post. If you wish to discuss this further then we welcome you to give either of us a call. Rod!~

My responses in blue: Glad you asked.As far as a "witch hunt" as you put it, I accept that it may be perceived as that. It has always been our aim to make information available based upon our experiences and knowledge for the membership to use as they see fit. To further elaborate, we have endured some pretty undesirable and unnecessary experiences and feel it is the honorable thing to let anyone else considering using products from this manufacturer know that all is not well because we understand that their businesses depend on information to make decisions that concern their clientele, schedules, reputation and profit margins. Just as in the past we had been vocal on the problems with an organization, we will continue to do the same for our membership here on TGS to make sure they have another perspective based upon actual experiences. Yes, we in the past have sung praises for an outstanding product line but changes have occurred and in our professional experience and opinion, they have not all been good. Business people like yourselves need to know. Take it for what it is...information, and make up your own minds. We no longer feel the way we used to about the line because we (the consumer) have been left to alter the formulation in the field by adding various off the shelf ingredients (with no compensation for the additional expenses) in order to obtain the results that should have been available straight out of the container as labeled. We created a business model based upon those products and find at this time we can no longer endorse the quality as we once did. This thread is full of many others testament to the fact they have had problems and instead of a recall of the defective product and replacement with a correct one, we are all given instructions on how to make it work. You tell me, should we be quiet about this, keep the status quo and become an accomplice or should we do the right thing and pass on the information? People have come to know TGS's membership for being watchdogs in the industry and a source of information that has helped many make an informed decision that best suited their businesses. Being a responsible part of it, we shall not deviate from that course as it is who we are...up front, honest and caring about those who have become a part of the TGS community. Thank you for the opportunity to explain ourselves. Rod!~

We have copies of MSDS for all the products we use in the shop and binders in each truck. It's the law. You are required to carry them. We are not on a witch hunt, but we are FED UP. We have had problems getting product, and problems with performance from time to time, mostly on the stain. There have been times when the ESI chemicals were back ordered and we did in fact have to purchase a backup product from another supplier to do a job. This is how we discovered that it is wise not to put your eggs all in one basket. ESI does have good products, but are the hassles worth it? Get to know the other chems. They do work just as well. One of the reasons I have pushed for MSDS sheets on the ESI stains, was due to a rash encountered by our crew. They came back, reported unusual symptoms and showed us a rash, and needed the information!!! I requested it on demand and NEVER got it, although I got plenty of excuses. I'm sorry - call it a witch hunt if you like, but I take people's health VERY seriously! I want those MSDS sheets. I have provided an email address, a fax number and a mailing address. I have been told they were mailed. We'll see. Beth ps... reported the employee rash and requested MSDS on demand on May 4th, 2007.

By the way - you should get a MSDS with that Woodrich. It's the law. But chances are you won't (unless you get it from a source who has them on file.) Last week I again requested MSDS sheets from ESI for the new WTW (after VOC changes in 2005 the sheet should have changed) and also the Woodrich Stain & Seal. Have never gotten them. However I was finally told that if I wanted them I needed to send a SASE (self addressed stamped envelope) or an overnight envelope and they would then send them. NO JOKE. Has anyone out there ever been told they needed to provide a SASE to get an MSDS? We have bought from many vendors in the past, and NONE of them have ever had this.....um....requirement. (for lack of a better description?) I can get most online, and have always gotten them with shipments automatically from other vendors, and by fax or email when needed. Absolutely amazing. SASE. Beth

Check with Scott Paul at The Sealer Store. Rick, There are a few different ways to apply and recently we have found favorable results using an airless paint sprayer. It applies in a finer spray and gives better absorption rates for the product being applied. Our crew has been reporting that application is easier and less guess work to achieve a more even finish with much less shiny areas to eliminate. The matte finish as you know is the best but the wood can change on you as the day progresses and the temperature of the wood increases. You absorption rates will go up slightly and in some cases you could also see the wood exude product creating puddles. This I associate with moisture expansion inside the substrate causing the effect. Another good reason to apply with a sprayer as we do is that it gets the sides better and eliminates the need to use a brush to attend these areas of the deck many are likely to find undesirable if left exposed. Rod!~

When we used it, it was starting around 7-8oz/gal which worked well. We only had a small amount at the time which was enough to do the job so we didn't get to try it stronger. About the search, did you try "F-18"? It's 4 characters. Rod!~

This would have made a good poll. btw, Jeff, you are a trouble maker aren't you! ;) Rod!~

Lots of it was well done, lots of stuff missing, the movie was waaaaaay too short. BUT - I want to see it again! Beth

Or better yet, look into some of the repair shops around you. They might have a decent used unit that someone didn't want to repair and bought new instead. Looks aren't everything with pw'ers. We bought a couple of refurbished units online when we first started and they lasted us 3 years before I finally had to recycle em. Rod!~

$2900!!! WOW. Does he use a superduperdiscombobulatedfantasmagoricalalgorythmdetensifiedtrigonomical Hydrogen/Ion nucular powered calculator to do it with? :lol: Sorry jk, couldn't resist. That is expensive to say the least. Heck, I might be inclined to do the same at those prices but still I would prefer to do other things when it's cold out and not numb my brain with something I will only use once a year. It's just not a priority for me to learn. [nondescript mumbling: sheesh, $2500 bucks ..... to do taxes,..... must be nice ... probably....has a captured audience....no one else to turn to.....only one in town I bet...] ;) Rod!~

We have it shipped. It's a 3 hour drive to Tom's shop otherwise and I like others don't have that kind of time. They are very responsive and I get my order the next day. Rod!~

Has anyone seen Order of the Phoenix yet? Beth

We spray, and back pad and wipe. If the wind is too high, we would pad and wipe the whole thing. Beth :cup: mischief managed! :groovy3:

There used to be very few choices out there.... today, there are many. The ones we mentioned perform equally well. In the future you will see more of a need to strip acrylics, which most of these products by themselves are not sufficient for. More and more "boost" type items are available to expand the range of what your favorite product can do. We used to just use HD-80. Now we use other things and our results have not changed one bit. I do like knowing we can pick up a variety of things that perform equally well and we don't have to worry about will a product even reach us in time (even buying it weeks and weeks and weeks ahead of when we need it) for the job it is scheduled for. Learn to use a couple of things, and always have a backup plan. We decided over a year ago that it was time to make sure we knew what else would work and on what, we did our homework and so we are not caught unaware. Be prepared and don't tie yourself just to HD-80... It's a good solid chemical, but it's not much different than the others. Shop wisely. Beth :cup: