Beth n Rod

One of our local radio stations use to pop that clip (just the SCOTT part) into DJ banter randomly. It was pretty funny. Beth

It's all in my head...if I do this enough :lgbonk: it falls right out! So far, only the few have come to have a discussion, the rest must be somewhere warm and working their butts off. :taz: CABIN FEVER SUCKS!!! Rod!~

Thanks Rick! :) :banana: Beth

Rick is correct in his posting. Its not a bash to say the mildew proliferates on unprotected linseed oil. It is a fact. It is a natural food for mildew. Mold grows everywhere yes, but it starts out as mildew and some locations create a suitable environment more readily than others. -Since you paint, perhaps you may have noticed that the black or green stuff is most prominent in areas that are shaded but often wet or even more interestingly enough, crowded by bushes or sheltered by pine trees all of which limit air flow to dry the surfaces. A little known factoid: Pine trees are in the same genome family as flax and contain high amounts of the underived linseed oil in the needles. The pollen released from these trees sticks on siding and exterior structures when damp from dew or rain. The commonly moist and shaded locations create an environment suitable to mildew growth which in turns spawns mold and algae. There is much more to mildew growth than linseed oil alone but in this case, the facts presented are widely accepted as published by US Forest Products Labs. -As far as linseed oil based stains, no you will not see as much mildew for a longer period of time when compared with coated or bare wood due to the 2 prominent components; a mildewcide and a fungicide. These products you've mentioned Daniel are designed for exterior use and include the necessary ingredients to help facilitate a better result without the worry of microbial impregnation due to factors such as; incomplete or lack of suitable preparation in the forms of cleaning, sanding and disinfecting the surfaces they are applied to. -One can buy the little additive packets of these in the paint stores to add to a paint product before application and for those who don't know, here is why: High humid conditions make the paint take longer to cure thus making it possible for spores and pollens to get caught in the paint and create a never ending problem of mildew growing from what seems like behind the paint. Yes, it can grow through the paint. Most paints do not have a mildewcide or Zinc oxide included and this is why they make this packet available for the contractor to decide on depending upon the climate they are working in. -Speaking about Cabot in particular, they currently have a serious mildew growth problem with A.T.O. which uses linseed oil in the formulation as of past couple of years. We have noticed it with regard to applications on Ipe' and Cedar which in contrast, the product before the V.O.C. regulations were tightened in the 9 Atlantic coast states in '05 used to perform quite well. -Not all products cure. Curing refers to hardening as in concrete or better known to us as acrylics, polymers, latex and bonding agents. These must become hard in order to have their strength and in that strength comes durability. Problem with curing in exterior wood is the thermal coefficient in which a product that once cured becomes inflexible and cannot expand and contract at the same rate as the wood will. Unless the wood is completely coated on all sides, it will fail quicker than other products that don't cure by cracking, flaking and peeling. Linseed oil based products do not cure. Latex does to an extent but due to the composition of linseed oil based products, the only thing they do do is dry. With a drier incorporated into the formulation, the product will not continue to dive into the wood and provide an environment for fungal growth. -Choosing a product based upon these indicators will help one to decide suitability. Once a deck is built, it is not feasible to coat every side. If the deck is done correctly by (time consuming and more difficult) coating the (dry) boards before installation so that all six sides are protected, then the thermal coefficient is severely limited and the finish will last a long time with only minimal need for surface horizontals to be looked after. Otherwise we have to used other products that will give a good performance but need to be cleaned and maintained at regular intervals. btw...The assumptions of whether anyone has a clue or not was not constructive here. Rod!~

Lets talk about oils then: Linseed oil, is an extract of flaxseed used in fine wood finishing for is moisturizing properties. This oil requires a drier and provides only minimal water resistance. Some versions of this oil are more refined and even polymerized. Wood treated with a polymerized oil tends to get harder with age. Ever noticed a ptp deck that is tough to sand? Tung oil, is derived from seeds of the tree and is used in place of Linseed oil in order to provide more water resistance. Both are durable and penetrate the surface well on prepared surfaces that will allow them to. Next! :) Rod!~

Sorry I missed this one Cody, Marble Tile, once it has been sealed it is very easy to maintain. Terrazzo Tile is a bugger because it usually is an unevenly surfaced tile. I will refer you to some specialists in this field as I have only done a small amount of work on them and feel these people could give you a great deal of knowledge: DirtyGrout Marketing & Technical Resources Tell em we sent ya! Rod!~

I had to share this..... http://austinspad.tripod.com/sounds/ap1/scott.wav Beth

Here's a little forum tidbit for you.... Have you ever wondered why Polls re-appear even if no one has posted in the thread? It's simple. It's because someone has voted in the poll, and that vote counts as added data in the thread. In other words it changes a database entry. This is true on all v bulletin forums. Have a great day! ;) :seeya: Beth

Just for the sake of giving an example for those may not be aware of the condition; there is a fad going on around here to install aluminum clad trim over painted trims to create a new look. In time, this trim (which is often not well sealed or caulked) begins to oxidize and the result is aluminum oxidation running down from the bottom corners of the windows carried there by rainfall. Well, the best way I have been able to get this to come clean has been to use agitation. I won't M-5 an acid up there because of the glass, so I dunk a brush and use it to apply and agitate the surface to get it clean. Sometimes there are exceptions but it depends on the conditions and circumstances where you live that dictate them. For mildew and algae, no brushing required. For oxidation removal, either from degradation of the siding from UV exposure or as previously mentioned above...brush. This costs more obviously than just a regular wash but the customer will appreciate it more when it is done. Rod!~

And this..... http://forums.thegrimescene.com/faq.php?faq=vb_faq goes well with it. Enjoy the forums. Beth

Good idea..... Done! Beth :cup:

I love that thing.... ;) Beth

I agree with Rod...it sounds molecular. Think about how glue from artwork you created as a kid yellowed and cracked over time....I think that the light has done this, along with heat and time, and I think it's just seen better days..... Beth

Welcome Keith! To all who are new, welcome! Please read here for information about how to use the forums: http://forums.thegrimescene.com/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_vb_board_usage And pretty please....add your signature. Thank you in advance. Beth

We have a copy of it as well, it went out to all PWNA members. The guidelines are pretty strict. The RFP was very well thought out. Beth

Doug, You are very welcome. We are all here to help each other grow and prosper. We wish you all the best for a banner year and future success! Beth

I thinks as one of the contingencies of "dubya" getting the money is that he is on the front lines until it is over...one way or the other. I agree! :lol: Rod!~

Environmental accelerators are not completely reliable. The product hasn't been around for that long to justify such a claim and I wouldn't use it anyway due to the changes in homeownership. God help anyone trying to strip it off!!! This goes into the debate of paint -vs- stain category. Back on topic.... Again, this is not about which sealer is best or which to use, that is up to the individual to make that choice. Let's get to the basic components of sealers and shed some light on the inner workings. Rod!~

Thanks for you feedback and contributions. We are glad you could get responses to your questions. But please feel free to ask them here so that others may benefit from the answers as well. Rod!~

This thread has been reinstated largely intact. Opinions have been spoken and although some may not agree they are there in full for all to consider. This thread is not about which sealer is better but about compositions of different sealers and what makes them do what they do. This is particularly important for all concerned to be involved in because the insight obtained helps gain a better understanding of them, their suitability and under what conditions. Let's focus on that...the basic makeup of a sealer and talk about the ingredients. This is a chance for all of you to really show your stuff. We can accomplish this without the partisan standings on different products. One further note, remember, this site has been SEO'd (Search Engine Optimized) which means that in looking for anyone in particular here, a prospect can find you and read what you post. Is it worth what it may cost you? Post responsibly. Back on topic. Thanks for the kudos Rick...and thanks for trying to keep this thread in line.Rod!~

This thread was move to be reviewed and to take out the personal attacks. Look guys, this is February. Cabin fever time. We go through this every year. This is what I am saying, please, let's all remain professional. We don't need to bash products to discuss them, we don't need to trash each other as professionals in order to have a conversation. If we represent the "best" in the industry, then let's all act like it. That's all I am saying. We are not wild about handing out infractions....we would rather not have to so please....take a deep breath.... Beth

Paraffin and paraffinic are of the same nature only Paraffinic (oil) is a derivative containing wax while the other is a compound (paraffin wax). Many clear sealers and toners use these as water repellants and/or sealants. RS uses a paraffinic oils for example Olympic and Thompsons used paraffin wax with solvents as carriers. Water absorption is the point all are trying to avoid. Reason being is that it carries with it any and all environmental materials small enough into the woods substrate and there in starts the process of biodegradation. This promotes the growth of fungus, mildew and other microbial organisms which begin to break down the cellulose by consuming other components of the wood depending upon the extractive content. This is something that acts like a natural poison to biological attackers. Mother nature breaks down the lignin holding the cellulose together and depletes any extractives which help to preserve it. Exposure to minerals in soil accelerate this process by adding a catalyst in which spawns higher organisms to coexist and breakdown the wood. By keeping water out, the process is deterred. Adding oils to the wood keeps it from drying out. In water based/borne products bind to the cellulose structure creating a barrier and use water as a carrier but with either or both a fungicide and mildewcide in the formulation to prevent any unwanted growth as a result of water introduction. The water evaporation is enhanced by the alcohols in the formulation and as drying takes place, the water either is channeled inwards and out through uncoated areas or back to the surface being coated. Some even use acetones and ketones as carriers to lower the VOC content instead of solvents like hydrocarbons, mineral spirits, xylene, stoddard solvent etc. Some oils are natural food for mildew and without a mildewcide in the formulation, the mildew will proliferate rapidly. Linseed and tung oils are most commonly used but can also darken the wood depending on the grade of oil used. Any other ???'s Rod!~

Rick is right...that is a MUST bookmark kind of site! Beth

This is a good question and one that I would ask in the same position. Oils: Natural and alkyds; These serve a couple of functions. 1 is to help replenish the wood with a moisturizer to help it keep from drying out and cracking. 2 is to aid in the absorption due to oils inherent nature to adhere to surfaces it comes into contact with. Most oils are drying oils in that once they penetrate and are absorbed into the wood, dry in place providing a measure of water repellent-ability that exists between oil and water, their ions repel each other. Pigments such as you mentioned in addition to clay and earth along with other oxide pigments need a carrier to keep them in suspension until application. This is usually accomplished by either solvents or phenols (alcohols in water based/bourne) that evaporate once liberated upon application. In addition to pigments there are binders and solids content that enhance the pigments UV protection capabilities, duration and the stains overall penetration and holding abilities. All of these components work together to provide moisture repelling or dispersing. Repelling is done with waxes (hydrocarbons, paraffins or paraffinic). This causes the water to bead up on a surface. Oils and alkyds are designed to make water disperse by spreading out. This helps to dry it faster without the drawbacks of beading which in direct sunlight creates its own demise by focusing sunlight like a magnifying glass and burning itself off. These are in laymens terms the best way I can explain it. I hope that others with better command of technical terminology would chime in here and help take up where I may have fallen short. Rod!~

Have a safe trip Jeff. Don't forget the pocket warmers...they do help. Rod!~