Beth n Rod

Ken, I would say that adding an additional 15-25% to your seal price should cover your costs depending on the size and condition of the deck. You should only be needing to apply it to the horizontals and rail caps anyway. Works so far for us and the customers are glad that we are offering this extra step to help their wood. Also, consider listing as a seperate item on those decks you think could really benefit from it. Let the customer choose. Rod~

Ken, we have several Sikkens Cetol DEK decks that we maintain with no issues at all. In our expereince it boils down to: amount of clearance beneath deck, we have learned to only apply this to raised decks. proper prep both in wash and sealing prep weather when applied continual maintenance is critical boards MUST be in excellent conditon. Should already have shrunk, but be free of major cracks and large splinters. Hope this helps. We do not look for these jobs, but have successfully managed quite a few for years. Beth

Thanks Shane :) Beth

We have a number of different thoughts on what could have caused these and one person so far has hit it on the head. Before we give it away, anyone else care to take a shot? Rod~

No, this was the result of an improperly done job. There was no evidence of anything done to the home that would have resulted in this nightmare. Beth

John, I know someone who did this successfully, but I don't remember how. Check your PM's for contact info I send you what I have and how to reach the guy. Beth

Rod tells the story of the little girl (between 4 and 6 yers old?) that brought him a piece of home make strawberry short cake once. She waited patiently while he worked and was just beaming as she gave it to him. Best strawberry shortcake he's ever eaten, I'm sure. Beth

Regarding Trex..... We have found most often two common problems: mildew infestation tannin bleeding Mildew infestation can be solved with a percarb or product designed to kill mildew. Removing tannin bleeding requires an acid. (citric, Citralic blend or oxylic) If both are present, a common 2 step cleaning method should resolve both issues. We have also heard about infestations that cannot be removed. I seem to recall a pink growth which was posted about last year or so that just did not budge. A search might yield more info on that. Hope this helps. Beth

RFitz, You might want to copy/paste your product review into a new thread and post it here: http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=69 The forum I am suggesting you place it in, would prohibit cross discussion about other products after you post. Here are the rules for the forum I am mentioning, there is a sticky in that forum. The forum you placed your kudos in here, does allow for discussion behind your post. Have a great day, and hope this helps. Beth

Scott, Words don't begin to describe the images we have seen. I can't imagine being there in person. Hope you continue to be healthy and safe as this all plays out for your area. Beth

09/28/05 19:47:05 Russell_C Logs in [172.157.138.158] 09/28/05 19:48:50 Russell_C: Welcome to Wood Chat. My name is Russell Cissell and I will be your host for the evening. We are just about to get things started. Wood Chat begins at 9:00 Eastern time 09/28/05 20:34:37 scottk Logs in [68.217.211.188] 09/28/05 20:34:44 scottk Logs Out 09/28/05 20:46:46 rayj Logs in [68.192.245.208] 09/28/05 20:47:01 Russell_C: Welcome to Wood Chat 09/28/05 20:47:13 Russell_C: Have you got any questions this evening? 09/28/05 20:47:14 rayj: Thank you Russell 09/28/05 20:47:32 rayj: Where should I start? Hmm 09/28/05 20:48:09 rayj: You and I had a quick exchange of e-mails that I never got back to you about last week regarding salts 09/28/05 20:48:27 Russell_C: All right 09/28/05 20:48:30 Russell_C: I remember 09/28/05 20:48:54 rayj: Sorry about that. 09/28/05 20:49:02 Russell_C: Was there something specific you would like to know? 09/28/05 20:49:38 rayj: Well I had hoped to be able to merely go back and re rinse and maybe take a soft nylon brush to the grains to hopefully remove them 09/28/05 20:49:41 Russell_C: Thats ok, we all get busy! 09/28/05 20:49:47 rayj: It didnt work 09/28/05 20:50:08 rayj: It took it off but there is still more. 09/28/05 20:50:09 Russell_C: You are refering to the furing that you had? 09/28/05 20:50:31 rayj: Salts on the surface of a few isolated boards on a pt deck we did this spring 09/28/05 20:50:44 Russell_C: Ahh, ok 09/28/05 20:51:10 rayj: Cabot Australina timber oil 09/28/05 20:51:17 Russell_C: So you were able to remove some, but the white marks remain 09/28/05 20:51:19 rayj: Australian that is 09/28/05 20:51:35 Russell_C: We do not grade spelling or typing here 09/28/05 20:51:35 rayj: yes 09/28/05 20:51:43 rayj: good thing 09/28/05 20:52:07 Russell_C: What condition was the finish in where you removed some of the stains? 09/28/05 20:52:35 rayj: Do you mean prior to staining? 09/28/05 20:52:51 rayj: Or after salts appeared 09/28/05 20:52:55 Russell_C: Well, you just answered my question 09/28/05 20:53:25 Russell_C: I was going to ask if you had to touch up the stain after cleaning the salt marks 09/28/05 20:53:37 rayj: We stripped years of water based water seal with Sodium Hydroxide followed by Oxalic 09/28/05 20:54:09 rayj: My guys assured me that they rinsed rinsed rinsed & rinsed again. 09/28/05 20:54:27 Russell_C: Yes, we can be sure they did! 09/28/05 20:54:47 Russell_C: One thing we can all agree on is our help never takes short cuts! 09/28/05 20:55:24 rayj: Someone told me that there was a chance they had put the brightener on the wood after it had dried too much and that the crystals from the brightener could be brushed or rinsed off 09/28/05 20:55:39 rayj: This was my hope 09/28/05 20:56:06 rayj: I suppose I will need to restrip the whole ball of wax? 09/28/05 20:56:44 Russell_C: If I remember correctly what you described to me sounded like it may have leached to the surface after you applied the oil 09/28/05 20:57:05 rayj: this is correct. Good memory! 09/28/05 20:57:45 rayj: Only on a few boards. It almost looked like a sap line but it wasnt. 09/28/05 20:57:49 Russell_C: Did you try to rub the spots off with mineral spirits? 09/28/05 20:57:57 rayj: It followed the contour of the grain 09/28/05 20:58:11 rayj: No, just water and a nylon brush so far 09/28/05 20:58:15 Russell_C: They didn't rinse! 09/28/05 20:59:07 Russell_C: Ok, as I recall out conversation got cut short before I had a feel for how much of the wood was effected by this 09/28/05 20:59:23 Russell_C: You had said it was in spots 09/28/05 20:59:47 Russell_C: I remember a grumble when I suggested wiping with a rag 09/28/05 21:00:00 rayj: Not much. Its not a large deck, but only parts of three boards have the problem 09/28/05 21:00:26 Russell_C: Ok 09/28/05 21:00:32 rayj: Naa not me. I dont grumble. You must have me confused with my wife. 09/28/05 21:00:56 rayj: Kidding (as she looks over my shoulder) 09/28/05 21:01:39 Russell_C: I would try taking a rag damp with mineral spirits and dampening the effected area. Then rub with light to medium pressure. 09/28/05 21:02:07 Russell_C: Have you got any extra timber oil? 09/28/05 21:02:34 rayj: Yes but the darn formulation has changed since the earlier application. 09/28/05 21:02:59 Russell_C: Well, that should not be a big issue. 09/28/05 21:03:02 rayj: Thicker, less penetrating. Hate them. 09/28/05 21:03:42 Russell_C: After you have rubbed the spots clean with the mineral spirits take a clean rag and get it damp with spirits. 09/28/05 21:03:57 rayj: When I use the mineral spirits, should I be looking for any characteristics other than the removal of the salts? 09/28/05 21:04:10 Russell_C: then take that rag and get it just wet with stain. 09/28/05 21:04:45 Russell_C: It may cause a blemish in the finish, it could present as dull or possible a lighter color. 09/28/05 21:05:15 Russell_C: Getting back to your rag 09/28/05 21:06:17 Russell_C: the idea is to have the rag moist with spirits and oil. Use this rag to wipe over the area with attention to the area you worked on 09/28/05 21:06:44 Russell_C: you want to try to blend it in as much as possible 09/28/05 21:08:20 Russell_C: Do you understand? 09/28/05 21:08:27 rayj: Would it help to mix a small container 50 / 50 with stain & spirits? 09/28/05 21:08:35 Russell_C: If you like, you can give me a call tomorrow. 09/28/05 21:08:45 Russell_C: Yes, you could do that 09/28/05 21:09:32 rayj: It sounds fairly straight forward. How much time after this treatment does it usually take to determine success? 09/28/05 21:10:57 Russell_C: It is pretty much a wipe off wipe on process. You should know how it turns out in about 15 min. 09/28/05 21:11:24 Russell_C: There is always a chance the salts will come back though 09/28/05 21:11:50 Russell_C: Did the customer call you back or did you find this on an inspection? 09/28/05 21:11:58 rayj: Dumb secondary question. Mineral Spirits versus paint thinner versus turpentine? Advantages, disadvantages? 09/28/05 21:12:19 rayj: Is it all the same or very different? 09/28/05 21:12:45 Russell_C: Hmmmmm 09/28/05 21:12:59 Russell_C: It's about like the octane rating on gas 09/28/05 21:13:09 Russell_C: Spirits will work just fine 09/28/05 21:13:35 Russell_C: Can you even get the other two? 09/28/05 21:14:07 Russell_C: I am not sure we can get anything but rule 66 spirits in stores here 09/28/05 21:14:19 rayj: Yes, and thats the problem.. 09/28/05 21:14:43 rayj: Ive never been sure if using one or the other is not a good idea 09/28/05 21:14:59 rayj: Seems like Turp does a better job on the brushes 09/28/05 21:15:02 Russell_C: In this case I would say no 09/28/05 21:15:44 Russell_C: Turpentine has more bite, but is more harsh 09/28/05 21:15:44 rayj: Im in New Jersey, I could probably just use straight tap water huh? 09/28/05 21:16:23 Russell_C: I couldn't say! Is your water bad? 09/28/05 21:17:16 Tonyc Logs in [68.42.235.8] 09/28/05 21:17:17 rayj: No Im just poking fun at the old place. Everyone else just assumes that we all live on a toxic waste site up here. 09/28/05 21:17:25 Russell_C: Hey tony 09/28/05 21:17:33 rayj: Hi Tony 09/28/05 21:17:37 Tonyc: Howdy! 09/28/05 21:17:57 Russell_C: Ahh, I live right on the Mississippi, I have seen my share of funny water. 09/28/05 21:18:21 Russell_C: How are things tony? 09/28/05 21:18:33 rayj: Your not one of those crazy guys who fishes for big catfish without a pole are ya? 09/28/05 21:18:36 Tonyc: Slowing down quite a bit 09/28/05 21:18:49 Russell_C: No! 09/28/05 21:19:04 Russell_C: Do you think there will be another push this year? 09/28/05 21:19:29 Tonyc: I don't expect it, at least wood work 09/28/05 21:19:32 rayj: Im getting a small one that started last week. 09/28/05 21:20:15 rayj: Phones perked up a bit and some follow ups on last weeks estimates are finding a bit of success 09/28/05 21:20:30 Russell_C: That is always nice 09/28/05 21:20:38 Tonyc: Commercial work often picks up around this time 09/28/05 21:20:42 rayj: How late can you guys dance with wood? 09/28/05 21:20:51 Russell_C: Depending on temps and rain, we could have up to 8 weeks 09/28/05 21:21:12 Tonyc: Here in MI, we're done about Halloween 09/28/05 21:21:18 rayj: For me its only about till Halloween. 09/28/05 21:21:36 rayj: <~~Jersey 09/28/05 21:21:42 Russell_C: I have seen snow on Holloween and worn Shorts to Turkey day 09/28/05 21:22:02 Russell_C: It used to make me crazy 09/28/05 21:22:08 Russell_C: Reading the almanac 09/28/05 21:22:14 Russell_C: watching the caterpillars 09/28/05 21:22:17 rayj: It doesnt anymore>> 09/28/05 21:22:30 rayj: make you crazy that is? 09/28/05 21:23:02 Russell_C: Nah, I have gone from looking at months, to seasons, to years, to cycles. 09/28/05 21:23:07 Tonyc: sometimes breathing in too many stain fumes can make you crazy 09/28/05 21:23:12 rayj: What do the caterpillars tell you? 09/28/05 21:23:25 Russell_C: It all just is what it is. You concentrate on what you can controll and make the best of what you cant 09/28/05 21:23:42 Russell_C: Dark ones mean bad winter, light ones mean mild winter 09/28/05 21:24:19 scottk Logs in [68.217.211.188] 09/28/05 21:24:21 rayj: Hmm Come to think of it I havent even seen any.....What does that mean> 09/28/05 21:24:28 rayj: Hello Scott 09/28/05 21:24:33 Russell_C: I live in the boonies, there is still a lot of the old indian wisdom here 09/28/05 21:24:33 Tonyc: howdy scott 09/28/05 21:24:34 scottk: hi ray 09/28/05 21:24:44 scottk: hi tony 09/28/05 21:24:49 Russell_C: Welcome to wood chat 09/28/05 21:25:03 scottk: thanks russell 09/28/05 21:25:21 Russell_C: Scott, how long do you think your season will go? 09/28/05 21:25:40 scottk: we work pretty much year round 09/28/05 21:26:11 scottk: we washed commercial work last in every day unless it was in the low 20's 09/28/05 21:26:40 Tonyc: trucks? 09/28/05 21:26:52 scottk: flatwork 09/28/05 21:27:03 scottk: we'll have 15 trash trucks this year 09/28/05 21:27:08 Tonyc: I can't seem to get flatwork during colder months 09/28/05 21:27:45 Russell_C: Thats great 09/28/05 21:27:46 scottk: monthly accounts with restaurants keep us busy 09/28/05 21:27:46 rayj: I cant seem to get flat work period. 09/28/05 21:28:11 rayj: Most of the property managers I hit could care less how there places look. 09/28/05 21:28:15 Tonyc: I like to have a good mix of wood, houses, and flatwork 09/28/05 21:28:28 rayj: Its been frustrating 09/28/05 21:28:36 scottk: we do some houses in the iwnetr and a few roofs but not nearly as much as the summer months 09/28/05 21:28:53 scottk: winter 09/28/05 21:28:59 Tonyc: look at condo complexes for deck work 09/28/05 21:29:00 Russell_C: Have you tried getting apointments to speak to the owners association meetings? 09/28/05 21:29:21 rayj: Winter deck work?? 09/28/05 21:29:40 scottk: property management companies are good for consistant work 09/28/05 21:30:08 Tonyc: NO winter deck work, but set up for next season 09/28/05 21:30:37 Russell_C: Well guys, I have a late dinner waiting for me 09/28/05 21:30:51 rayj: Thanks for the help Russell 09/28/05 21:30:52 scottk: later russel have a great night 09/28/05 21:30:53 Tonyc: enjoy 09/28/05 21:30:54 Russell_C: I will be back here next week at 9:00 eastern 09/28/05 21:31:03 scottk Logs Out 09/28/05 21:31:09 Russell_C: Have a great week! 09/28/05 21:31:14 Tonyc: you 2 09/28/05 21:31:19 Russell_C Logs Out 09/28/05 21:31:20 Tonyc Joins Subroom Town Meeting 09/28/05 21:31:59 rayj: Tony, how have you found most of your commercial work? 09/28/05 21:32:15 Tonyc: they usually find me 09/28/05 21:33:09 rayj: Im only a little past two years in the business. So far most of my work has been residential. 09/28/05 21:33:18 Tonyc: once you get foot in,,,take lots of pics to show other prospects 09/28/05 21:33:36 rayj: I need to push commercial, but my efforts seem to have been in vein. 09/28/05 21:33:43 Tonyc Logs Out 09/28/05 21:34:07 rayj Logs Out 09/28/05 22:39:16 MikeSweerin Logs in [151.213.154.14] 09/28/05 22:39:41 MikeSweerin: anyone stiil here 09/28/05 22:40:00 MikeSweerin Logs Out

The warm honey gold would be pretty. We love the Wood Tux product. Beth

Hi everyone, Beth and I have just gotten back from the latest round table in North Carolina hosted by Celeste and Roger of Carolina Pro Wash. In all the Round table meetings we have either hosted or attended there have been several things in common: -Networking -Demonstrations and Vendors -Guest speakers -Specific topic discusion -Rigs to check out -Food -Door prizes -New friendships formed It would be interesting for future reference to those who would host a Round Table meeting to get some feedback on ideas you may have to add to the benefit of a meeting. Please take some time to share your ideas here. Let us not detract from any ideas contributed but leave them for the sake of future evaluation. :cheers: Rod~

Mike, Thanks for finding that link, it was a whopper of a thread. Rod~

We demonstrated the WTW at the last round table in NC. We showed every one the moisture reading was exceeding 30% at the time of application with a moisture meter. Then we directly applied Wood Tux Wet to the wood and allowed it to dry. In a matter of an hour, WTW had penetrated into the substrate and started to cure on the surface. It was a great demonstration for all to see and it looked just like it would if it were applied to dry wood. Rod~

temps ranging in the 50's have an effect on strippers and they take longer to work. once below 50*, the strippers dont seem to be as effective. Also note that the wood is tightening up in these lower temps and the amount of penetration diminishes as well. Sealers tend to thicken up a bit too and compound the penetration problems. Rod~

Scott, Welcome to TGS! We're glad you've joined us here. This is a hard time of year to start up, since the season is winding down. Spring is a better time, but if I may offer a few suggestions on what you might do between now and spring..... practice washing before you begin to do jobs if you can, on your property, or family or friends who are willing to let you get the practice prepare a business plan prepare a marketing plan get your articles of incorporation set up for your business get your insurance get any state licensing that may be required where you live study, study, study look into the PWNA ( www.pwna.org) speak to an accountant ask TONS of questions - no such thing as a stupid question Check out the FAQ button up in the navigation bar on this site. There are things there that will help you. Beth

Cabot's product is an acrylic (it's called SPF). Extreme Solutions product (wood Tux) is an oil. Go with the oil. Acrylic can be a nightmare if you ever have to strip that deck. Beth p.s. www.esproducts.net

We use HD-80 by Extreme Solutions for all the oils we have to strip. Been using it for years. Performs the way we need it to each and every time! www.esproducts.net or www.sunbritesupply.com Beth :cup: :groovy3:

Yes, we do. If you measure a spindle...how can I explain this...if you could unfold it, lay it flat out, a standard spindle would be 4 inches wide, given each side is an inch. At least in our area, deck builders build rails with a 4 inch gap between spidles, thus, you would have a wall if you could flatten or unfold all the sides...follow me? We also factor in the support, which are pretty standard, once you know your measurements around a post and have a standard height for a second story deck for example it is pretty cookie cutter. You can get your rails off of the floor length and width in many cases if it is a basic deck with no funky angles. On a 10x12 deck with no stairs, second story for example, you have 120 sq ft of floor. Given a 3 foot high rail system, you will have 2 side that are 10 feet long and one side that is 12 feet long. Therefore, you have 96 sq. ft. of rails (32x3). Next count the supports and factor the band boards, and off you go. Sometimes measuring is a chore. You will see decks with fun shapes and angles, lots of lattice, arbors, walls that are part fence, the whole nine yards. Better to factor in all the wood you can, and always remember the underside is extra sqare footage - it's the other side of the board. Hope I didn't muddle this up. Should be clear as mud.... right? Beth ;)

Hang in there John. I'm sure your schedule will fill up - and like you said if it doesn't you can tinker. ;) Beth

Wood Tux Wet will save you the additional trip, and is a great choice in a sealer. Beth

The drips were prominent on most of the verticals and partially on the floors. It looked to me that they were under the sealer. The homeowner called it "a contractor disaster" and even told us that they didnt pay for the work since the contractor did not return to rectify this problem that showed up after the seal was completed. Rod~

Ken, Do you normally measure the underside as well? Here we rarely get folks who want the underside done. You can usually tell who might by the extensive patio and landscaping underneath. (at least in our expereince here) Beth

Question - are you saying the deck rails (vertically) stand 4' (feet) high? Your floor measurement looks right. Your step measurement looks right (13x3) Rails can be done a couple of ways. We do not count spindles, but many folks do. Some people also use linear feet for rails rather than square feet. We measure the height of the rails, by the length of the rails. Beth p.s. did you measure the landing at the top of the steps? It looks like it is either 3x3 or 4x4... was your deck measurement the length and width to include that space, or was it just shy of it going up to the rails? If you measured all the way out to the small landing and then multiplied it by the width, you also captured enough additional sq ft to cover the steps since they sit in the space you covered - do you follow? I need more coffee... :cup: