Beth n Rod

Thomas Melody 109 Marlin Rd. Manahawkin, NJ 08050 609-607-8373

Jon, I love a good discussion. I certainly don't have all the answers. But I have some thoughts and some observations. I don't mind discussing them. And to be honest I too would love to hear what other's take is on this. When a deck is built, the wood is new, and has not shrunk yet, etc. I think what many products are trying to accomplish, is to slow or retard the metamorphoses that begins to take place the day the deck is built. ( shrinking, warping, cupping cracking, checking etc.) True, you can't put back the original oils any more that you can slap the bark back on the tree. But, if you moisturize the wood, and protect it you can slow it down. Ok, really stupid example here ( but I have a cold and it's the best I can conjure out of my fuzzy head today) ... Think about a piece of kindling. It's really dry. It burns easily. But if you soak it in water, it doesn't burn as easlily. Moisure protects it from buring as fast ( told you it was a goofy example). Well, if you have wood exposed, and you don't protect it, then it dries faster, greys faster, cracks and so forth faster and worse that if you care for it. Now if you moisturize and protect it, it doesn't crack as quickly, as it could and surely doesn't suffer the UV damage as much. If you go pick up a twig that has fallen from a tree ( I have done this) and peel back the bark, the heartwood is more moist than if you find a twig with no bark and inspect the heartwood .... bark protects at the surface. This, in a nutshell is why I personally like an alkyd nearer to the top. This, is why I think a mosturizer followed by a sealer that cures closer to the top, is the best way of all. It's something we have heard of, and have also been thining about for a while. ( one of those things that makes you go "huh"...) Have you ever noticed how a deck in shade most of the time has boards that seem to suffer less from drying and so forth, than a deck with at least a half day's sun? True, you may have horrible moisture issues and the challenges of rot or decay with a full shade deck, but if you can combat that effectively you're ahead of the game. Who's next? Beth

To me the interesting thing even if underapplied, is that it was still moisturizing at a deeper level. Like I said, personal feeling here is that it is best as a moisturizer. This does show you that it doesn't lock in at the top. Doesn't appear that it cures there or dries at the surface. But then again, should a moisturizer dry, or is that contradictory to mosturizing? See what I mean? Look where the cusion box was. But, there is no doubt at all it is in there. It was a really good example of it still being in the wood, despite the surface appearance. Beth

I will also say in defense of RS, that you could still smell it in the wood, it was in there. It does moisturize down deep in the wood. Beth

Um....this was not the clear that was applied. It was the gold. The customer was told it would last two years on the floor. Beth

Here's a photo taken at 10 months. Another company applied RS to this deck. At 7 months we visited the deck and left an estimate with a very frustrated homeowner. You can see why if you look where the cushion box was, as opposed to the rest of the boards. Personally, I think RS is a great moisturizer. No doubt about that. But it's not holding up at the surface on this deck. I am sure however that father into the wood it is moisturizing. This is what intrigues me about the concept of two step sealing. I personally don't think it is possible to have one sealer do everything a deck may need. But a mositurizer with a finish over top that cure closer to the surface, now that might be somthing to look into. Beth

Wanted to emphasize... Photo on the left, was prior to the wash, after the dog has trampled on it, and mud tracked up and down onto it, and the owners just had a bunch of lower level landscaping done. It was a filthy deck. Photo on right, was after the wash of the two year old sealer. Beth

I have had the same convo as Jon with peirce and have been told the same. After using RS and responding to a number of call backs due to it being over absorbed, Ready seal does not appear to have a drier incorporated into its formulation. It remains tacky. There have been other posts of people talking about how ready seal was washed out after a rain and they had to reapply it. One in particular had to pay to have a pool cleaned and refilled because it washed into it after a rain. Not all "film" forming is created equal. If anyone has ever noticed when an acrylic has been applied and starts to crack and peel it takes the pigment out of the wood with it because it is not thermally coefficient (dynamically) to match the expansion and contraction of the wood. WTW does not perform in the same way as acrylics, latex, enamel etc...by becoming so hard that it can not flex with the wood. WTW has a better thermal coefficient to allow it to expand and contract with the wood better. Although it does not completely match the thermal coefficient, its resin system works well under our clients deck situations and has out performed many of the other products we have tried. I dont get hung up on the fact that it can form a film but the fact that after 2 years I can come back and wash it with efc-38 or hd-80 @ 2oz/gal and get the surface clean while pigment is still obviously present in the wood and the recoat does not look uneven as with the other film formers formerly mentioned. Great Q&A session here... Rod~

Here's one of the same deck right after it was sealed two years ago. I'll look for the dry shot too... Beth p.s. here's a link to a warm honey gold deck that just had two year maintenance as well. After it was done, the owner called to get on the books for 2 years from now. http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4316

We may apply the gold on top this time, since the new cedar fence she has would match better that way. This deck is very light in color when dry and unprotected. I would have to dig, but I have a photo somewhere of it dry prior to having wood tux applied for the first time. There is plenty of pigment left. No doubt there. Beth

I believe Jon is correct. Beth

Wood Tux to be applied on another day. Yes, the customer pays for a maintenance wash and seal. We are maintaining the same product and color. Beth

We solved the chem leaking down from the thrid deck problem by running a sprinkler on the second deck... Beth p.s. some chems mixed strong enough will eat thru some plastic if the mil is not strong enough...

Way to go! Looks great! Don't know how old the Behr was or how many coats were on there, but verticals can be tricky, since sealers hold up better vertically. Looks like you are on your way. If this is your first time washing wood, well,,,many don't do this well stripping right out of the gate. Can't wait to see it sealed. Beth :cheers:

A verbal contract is only as good as the paper it is written on! Some times people get lucky. I know we learned our lesson on this one years ago. Now, we wont do anything without it being written down and signed. Call it stiff, but we are too busy to chase after so many who take advantage of the generosities and misplaced trust. Rod~

We got a call in the office from a nice lady in CT. A company came out to wash her deck, used bleach (identified by smell) and too much pressure and has scarred the wood up (identified by raised grain). Needless to say she is looking for someone to take over and correct the situation. I have a name and phone number: Sue Bolea - 203-454-9612 Hope one of you can help her out. Beth

Hi Cujo, Try cleaning with it at a lower concentration, and cut your dwell time. You should get the result you are looking for. I would not be surprised if ESI were to release a plain percarb cleaner. I think it would fit well into the suite. Not arguing that it forms a protective barrier at all. But to me, and I think this is the difference in language here, a true film former lays on top of the wood - Sikken Cetol DEK, Wolman Extreme, etc...I differentiate between close to the surface and a slippery top coat, if that makes the description any clearer. I also happen to believe that if you moisturize and then put the barrier coat on (DMC and Tux) you get the ultimate in protection. The parafinic oil systems make better sense to me as a step one product... Beth

The pigments are locked in closer to the surface, rather than way down in the substraight. As Russ mentioned, and over application will give you a topical film ( AKA Shiny spot). Have you worked much with alkyds? If not, my suggstion is play with them, and you'll see WTW is the easiest alkyd to apply. Other alkyds are SRD and Aussie Oil. (aussie has 3 oils that I know of) We have applied maintenance coats of WT. You do not have to strip the deck to apply a maintenance coat. We have reapplied at two years, and also had deck where we could tell them - yes, wait one more year becuase it was still holding up that well. Beth

Thanks all.... I'm glad to see that Delco has removed the thread on their BBS. It doesn't do any BBS any good to have that type of activity. Beth

Awe come on, post a pic. Some guys need the visuals. Can't you get a shot from another angle? Beth

He's all taken care of... ;) ...rest assured. Beth

Glad you are doing it. Good luck, and post how it goes. We have revisited our policy on estimates. They are still free, but we have tightened things up a bit. Beth

How many are revising their "free estimate" policy? Beth

ROTFLMAO! Beth

Henry, I know where he is alright...He's in upstate New York....within an hour or so...of Syracuse. Beth