Beth n Rod

Call me...:cell: Beth

Thank you! I've been saying that for months. Beth :groovy:

Here are some photos of an Ipe deck we began work on today. It has two coats of penofin on it, the second was applied without washing the deck. As you can see the deck is a mess. Black and green in many places. The house actually has two ipe decks on it, one measuring 1,895 sq. ft. the small one was 102 sq. ft. The large deck wraps around the house. It's all ipe except for the supports. Beth :groovy3:

Thanks Ken. Any time you want to come and play here, you are welcome. Attaching a couple of pics of the finished deck. Enjoy! Beth

Rick, A Behr deck with mildew deep in the substrate, or any wood with any failed sealer with severe mildew growth, will take more time to remove and doesn't necessarily all come out the first time you care for the deck. We have seen this on at least 4 species... Next time you do the deck it will look better. Beth p.s. have seen blanket mildew growth on installations of the following products: Behr Mesmers Penofin Menwood Heads up....

Jamie, Both canvas and plastic have a place. Depends on what you are doing. Personal choice...canvas horizontals....plastic verticals...clamps, painters tape, pre-taped plastic... Beth

Love a good discussion! I have my coffee. :cup: There is one wood boring insect that believe it or not, can attack Ipe. It's called the Marine Borer. We have never seen a deck bothered by them, but it is possible. While the grain of the Ipe may be tight, like any wood we have seen infestations of mildew in the wood. This happens several ways. I'll give a couple of examples... 1. deck has nothing done to it, it is partly sunny and partly shaded, has a fair number of trees covering it. It rains quite a bit. Consumer never cleans it, maybe once a year blows leaves off, and never seals it. Mildew growth will be found on the shaded area on the floor, rail caps, and up to a foot on the spindals, in the splash zone. Microbial growth can penetrate the substrate, as it is not always visible to our eyes,therefore plenty small to penetrate the substrate. 2. owner builds ipe deck. owner neglects deck for a few years. owner washes deck witha pressure washer and nothing else. We'll say the exposure is as above. Owner seals the deck, partly washed. within a year, the deck is black. Owner rinses it off, same method, and puts another coat down. You now have three layers of mildew to remove, and two coats of a sealer. Example two is real. We just finished restoring a huge Ipe deck yesterday, that did have mildew in the substrate, and it is just as hard to remove from ipe as anything else when in the wood. Applying the sealer over mildew only pulls the mildew further into the wood and makes it harder to remove. In another thread a while back I asked what the most important ingredient is in a sealer. This is why. Personally, I think it is the biocides, mildewcides, or antifungals. These help to protect the wood and make our return trips for maintenance easier. If these fail or are a poor quality ingredient, the deck turns black. Remember the Behr suit? That was why. More coffee.... Beth :groovy3:

Jamie, That is why I was trying to warn you off of that tool for the SRD. Use it for solids. Get a Decker or a Deckster. Use that for your SRD. You'll be glad you did. Not as "foggy" as what you are using, but far superior to a pump up. If you want to see us use ours, or even try it when we have it set up, you are most welcome to do so. Hope you can find a tip that will reduce enough for you. Beth

It may well be. But, the percarb will kill off any microbial growth, and neutralization never hurts. Perhaps if we had a photo to confirm... he seemed to think there is some mold... Beth

The cleaning will not hurt, and if you are thinking prep for sealing (after building), then yes you need to wash first. Never seal unwashed wood... Beth :cup: :groovy2:

When temps are above 85* and the deck is in a mostly sunny exposure, there is a good possibility that you could wet the floors down and while you are working on the prep (sanding and masking) the deck will dry and be cooler when you go to seal it. Keeping in mind that many products have a threshold of around 90*-95* application temperature limit, this could be a good solution, but I have got to think about what anyone (especially the customer) would think if they were to see this going on and ultimately, how it could effect the longevity of the product being applied if not a "wet" formula?! There have been a number of instances where water spilled on the deck prior to sealing due to moving a grill or table/furniture that retained pockets of water from the wash or recent precipitation. The wood dried just fine and the seal was a success with no undesirable results from where the water spilled. I will also mention that WT was the product at the time and before WT, we would not have done this without giving the wood at least a few hours to dry. I will leave the floor open to those who would like to add their input... Rod~

Rick, Not debating that. I realize what the subheading was. Just found the article interesting and thought others may as well. I have a habit of watching for indicators.... As for housing in DC, it's far from reasonable. We live here, and I can tell you many people we know feel the same way we do. It's insane... Beth

I think this was the thread that had some Economics 101 woven into it farther back.... http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/invest/forbes/P120229.asp?GT1=6657 Forbes reported this on MSN today. Interesting reading. What does this mean for all of us? Beth

:sunshine: Let's all give Jim a big group HUG!!!!!!! :dancing: ( trying hard to make you crack a smile here) Hope things get better for you Jim! Beth:cup: :groovy3:

Very cool stuff. We have a few books on wood, might have to add the above! Thanks!!! :dancing: Beth

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2376&highlight=decker It's this one, but the one pictured has a 114, and what we have we got a few years ago, was a 112. They are made by Pumptec. http://www.pumptec.com/whpw.html We used to sell them. Beth

Ah... :) Well, when I say HVLP I mean a 112 series. Goes up to 300 PSI. Rod is pretty fast withthe wand. If you spray too slow, yeah you're gonna get alot of product. Also it will depend on the age of the wood. On a dry PT deck, you can hit it two or three times before you have to pad off. If I am out working with Rod, he will spray, I'll pad behind him. If any hits the floor, you fan out and when you do your floor, apply lighter as you move in tothat area near the rails to avoid a lap mark. Also we are using a spray shield, which helps to keep it off the floor. Angle is important too. We are not wild about water based products. Prefer oils any day. Just our preference. And you are right, SRD sets up real fast. Beth :groovy3:

We recently washed and sealed a deck the same day, and since the deck was in full sun the WMC was fine when we went back to seal it about 4 hours later. Rod and Roger washed it, and then Rod, Roger , Celeste and I sealed it. I'm interested in hearing if others have noticed how rapidly wood dries in warmer temps, and it anyone has taken advantage of it. Also while Roger and Celeste (CarolinaProWash) were here we washed and sealed some ipe and teak boards the same day, they dried in full sun and were fine that afternoon. On our own deck (full sun), I know when I go out and water the plants, I frequently cool the deck boards down so I can enjoy the deck more with less heat, and they seem to dry quickly. Beth

Jon, He said he can't lower his PSI on his airless. At 2800 PSI, I don't think he will have success spraying an oil, do you? Jamie, can you get a larger tip for it? You can reduce the PSI at the orafice. Otherwise the concern is that spraying at that PSI the product heats up too much and can begin to cure, which means it won't penetrate as well, etc... If it were us, we would rather put the SRD thru a pump up, than a non-adjustable 2800 PSI machine. Given our druthers, the Decker 5'er, HVLP rocks, and sprays SRD really well at about 150 PSI. Beth

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, there is no such thing as maintenance free anything for exterior, or interior use. Everything gets dirty, or eventailly needs repair or replacement. As Rod would say, mother nature is at work 24/7. All wood will do the following to some degree over time.... Shrink Warp Split Crack Check Cup Splinter It's the nature of wood. You cut the tree down, you remove the bark, which is the protection for the wood itself. Even wood in the interior of a home expands and contracts. Ever have a door that was sticky some months and easy to open an close others? I rest my case.... We had a log home builder that wanted us to testify on their behalf, the owner was suing them. After looking at the material, we declined. The builder was just plain wrong. Beth

Did it tell you what PSI it is rated at? Reason I bring it up, is that the higher PSI you get more atomization, and your oils don't like a super high PSI. That's why most use an HVLP sprayer for oils... Are you under 300 PSI on that unit? If you are, you are good to go! :) Beth

Well, what we have seen is most evident in the SYP and also in cedar. I do agree the chem process may be part of the issue where SYP is concerned but where cedar is concerned...I have to wonder if the age of the tree is an issue. Personally, I think it is. I know what you mean about the boards and how they behave differently. We have seen this as well. My understanding of it, is that it depends on what the tree is doing when it is cut. Think of it as channels which can be inbound or outbound. You can't tell when you lay a board by visual inspection if it will draw in a liquid such as an oil, or if it will push it out. While a ceratin amount of retention is normal, I can recall working on a floor, and having one board appear very thirsty and accepting quite a bit of sealer, while th eone next to it, literally pushed out the excess and needed to be evened out so it didn't puddle. It was really cool to see it. I would encourage you guys who have not seen it to take the time to look as you seal the wood, to see if you can spot it. It's like the board bleeds the oil back out. Do you get more ACQ in your area? Around here, there is more CA (copper azole), and you typically only see ACQ in lattice. In any case, if it were true that newer grow this weaker, it may in turn make it more susceptible to rot and decay. One thing we have seen here, is in a community that is very affluent, but was built very fast. (can you hear it coming?) The rails were PAINTED white on the elevated decks. The wood used was supposed to be PT, but upon inspection we don't believe it was. The WMC was not where it needed to be (our assessment) and the paint held the moisture in... allowing the wood to rot. It would stand to reason that any product that forms a barrier, especially on all sides of the board, would be a primary target for rot or decay if the WMC is not correct when the product (barrier, film - call it what you like) is applied. A moisture meter can be a handy tool. We also prefer wood scews to nails, but that's a whole other topic.... Beth :groovy2:

Just remember there are different kinds of sprayers. Jamie, if you don't post what you got, how can we help you to understand what you can and possibly can't use the tool for? We have both HVLP sprayers ( Decker 5er) that we use for oils, and we have a paint sprayers we use for solids ( don't remember the brand, but it is a monster and a whole lot more PSI). Point is, there are some things you can use in one but not the other. Come on...share...you might learn even more. :groovy: Beth

We never use the Natural for the reasons Everett stated, and agree fully regarding the other three colors. Beth :dancing:

Jon, I didn't "delete" anyone's post, as a matter of fact I gave you ample time to edit your own wise crack. When you didn't but did respond to the question I posed in the same reply as my not so subtle request to edit your post, then hey - I did the right thing which was to clean up the bbs and keep it on a professional tone. Likewise I gave Cujo the chance to remove his wisecrack back, which he did. I'll reiterate - this thread has alot of really cool info in it and it makes you stop and think about many things, as well as how they effect one another. Personally, I would like to see that course of conversation continue. However please understand that from time to time when things get heated, I may and will smooth them out a bit if you guys start making comments that could hurt one another or this BBS. Now let's keep this fun dialog going. I looked for research on newer growth and the effects of milling trees when they are younger, but am having a hard time locating any. Does anyone have a link? I would really like to see a study, and there has to be one somewhere..... Beth :cup: (got my coffee) :groovy3: