Beth n Rod

That attitude is alot.... John you hit on a very good point. I have seen some part timer who turn out such professional results they rival full timers. I have also see some full timers who turn out the sort of results you might expect from a part timer who doesn't have the professional result. In the end, a professional result is not about part time or full time or new or 20 years under your belt. If you are not committed to excellence it shows, regardless of tenure. Just my little .02 Beth :groovy:

They now only come in dc models. We prefer the battery model due to the uncertainty of power at the residence. Many like the protable unit that sits atop of a 5 gallon pail. It is a space saver for those who do not have a lot of room to transport and store them. Rod~

Lou... Call me. Beth

What a cool and funny link, and how true! Suggested viewing for all posters. Enjoy! It's worth the click. Beth :groovy: :groovy2: :groovy3:

I think if you have something slow on your site, warn the people. Overall, images can be optimized to load relatively fast. Text should be fast - it's text, not pixles. There is something to be said for pizzaz. People do like bells and whistles, you just want to choose them wisely and not have too many of them. Beth

You will need a spare battery. When you use the battery all day and have sealed several thousand sq. ft. of area, and sunlight is fading, so too will the battery. If you have 100 sq ft left you will kick yourself for not having one there. Always...keep an extra battery. It's no different than extra o-rings. We sell the Decker, and will have a sale on them this spring. Keep your eyes peeled!!! Beth:dancing:

Those would look really sharp in the Gallery... Beth :cool:

You would be surprised what a web site can do. Personally, I enjoy building them. Also since I spent 14 years in the software industry I guess there is a part of me that will always be into this type of stuff. To me it is fun. If you have never done it, it can be frustrating...well, if you are hand coding anyway. Personally, I think if you are going to build one you need to know the basic tags so you can fix something if you break it accidently. There are only a few basics to learn and there are online tutors to help you. Beth

Paul, I look forward to talking to you then. If you want a list of sites I have built, let me know and I'll email you the links. Beth

Hi Paul, Check our website out at www.seedirtrun.com . I have also built sites for a few other contractors out there. Are you coming up to the Round Table on Feb. 12th? I would be glad to share a few tips with you. Beth

Henry, Haven't you run into the homes with flow restrictors installed? We have been running into them for some time. It can be hard to get 4gpm around here even with the spigots wide open and things flowing well. The restrictor helps to economize the home's consumption, by restricing the flow coming out of the home. I wish we had a photo of one of them... Beth

I posted that he should bring it to the round table on Feb. 12th. It's like 20 minutes from him, and there might be people there who are in the market to buy. Beth

$9.00 !!! Thats unheard of Cujo... I'll have to check that out. Last time I bought a cheap sprayer, the hose was about 2 1/2 feet long and the seals leaked around the fill spout. Seymore, We had a connection break on a peice of equipment that was hooked up to our Decker 5'er and it pumped out a huge amount of sealant all over the deck. We scrambled!!! I urgently told everyone to grab a stain pad and start spreading it out, I flew down the stairs to shut off the unit, ran back up and helped. We had about a half a gallon that went between the floor boards down below but fortunately, we had already placed a tarp below to protect the landscape gravel and various homeowner pieces of equipment. We added a length of 4 mil plastic below it to prevent leaking through the tarp. Another horror story from the field! :) Rod~

Lou there is a rig in MD for sale. Go to www.pwnabb.org to see the details. http://www.pwnabbs.org/showthread.php?p=20593#post20593

Hey Ryan, it happens up here in DC too. The news crews love a storm, and even spend time in the grocery stores interviewing people to see what they buy. Insane. Glad this storm missed us. Ice is no fun, and it's better to avoid roads when they are not properly cared for and filled with people that never learned how to drive in it. You can't go barreling down the road in your SUV.... Worst storm I even drove in was 16" deep. The key was you do not stop the car. You keep rolling at all times. I got from a hospital home that way, about 20 miles. Got the car about 3 houses away from home before getting stuck. Car was rear wheel drive. This was many, many years back. Beth

To me, A person who dedicates a portion of time to an endeavor. Less than full time. Beyond the obvious, I wouldnt want to create a stigma towards others by answering beyond that. Rod~

Boy Reed, wouldnt I be spreading myself thin! I took one of those small engine repair classes and its a good investment, but you notice how time is not in abundance anymore :borg: Rod~

John, you 'da man! Beth :groovy3:

Negligable difference. Only drawback I have seen is that many homes hose bibs dont always supply 4gpm. If you are using a tank, no prob, but if you are direct feed, you will have some problems if the supply doesnt meet your machines demand. Rod~

Done deal, we are running low! :) We will probably order around March. btw, this was when I had a HD unit in the ford that you had seen the setup. If this gives you any time frame... Rod~

01/27/05 18:19:02 BethnRod Logs in [63.158.252.128] 01/27/05 18:19:21 BethnRod Logs Out 01/27/05 18:26:47 scottk Logs in [68.154.64.236] 01/27/05 18:26:58 scottk Logs Out 01/27/05 19:55:03 Russell_C Logs in [172.151.19.21] 01/27/05 19:55:40 Russell_C: Welcome to Wood Chat. My name is Russell Cissell and I will be your host for the evening 01/27/05 19:56:33 Russell_C: The forum tonight is open so please feel free to ask any questions or present any information you like. 01/27/05 20:02:38 Indy_Mike Logs in [4.224.177.62] 01/27/05 20:02:59 Russell_C: Welcome Mike 01/27/05 20:03:11 Indy_Mike: Thank you. 01/27/05 20:03:26 Russell_C: How are you this evening? 01/27/05 20:03:39 Indy_Mike: Im doing good, yourself? 01/27/05 20:03:46 Russell_C: Doing great 01/27/05 20:04:15 Russell_C: Did you come to wood chat with any specific questions or concerns this evening? 01/27/05 20:04:54 Indy_Mike: just saw that there was a chat at 8pm so i thought i would pop in and see whats going on :) 01/27/05 20:05:06 Russell_C: Great 01/27/05 20:05:19 Russell_C: do you currently offer wood restoration services? 01/27/05 20:07:07 Indy_Mike: very minimum, I still want to learn more about it first. I know its more in the chems and less in the power, so until I am confident in my knowledge, I've steered away from it 01/27/05 20:07:26 Rod Logs in [63.158.252.128] 01/27/05 20:07:44 Rod: Hey ya'll 01/27/05 20:07:44 Indy_Mike: Hey Rod 01/27/05 20:07:59 Rod: Wassup! 01/27/05 20:08:09 Russell_C: I understand Mike 01/27/05 20:08:14 Russell_C: Welcome Rod 01/27/05 20:08:39 Rod: Good Evening Mr Russell. 01/27/05 20:08:40 Russell_C: Mike, were there any specific concerns you have about wood restoration? 01/27/05 20:09:06 Russell_C: Like most other things, exp. will be your best teacher. 01/27/05 20:09:26 Indy_Mike: the right chems to use would be helpful :) 01/27/05 20:09:49 Russell_C: Well a lot of the will depend on the job at hand but. . . 01/27/05 20:09:52 Rod: russ has got them... 01/27/05 20:10:36 Russell_C: The tools that you need in your chest are a stripper for heavy stains, a cleaner for easier jobs and a brightener/neutralizer 01/27/05 20:11:16 Russell_C: Some contractors will steer away from the tougher jobs till they "get their feet wet" 01/27/05 20:11:17 Indy_Mike: yeah I saw a wood tux kit that had a small portion of each, I was looking into trying it out 01/27/05 20:11:43 Russell_C: Yeah, sample kits are great for peaking your interest 01/27/05 20:11:57 Russell_C: Have you ever done a deck job? 01/27/05 20:12:52 Indy_Mike: yeah a few small decks when doing houses, just cleaned them, no stripping or staining. But I want to learn more about it as I know theres good money to be made doing it 01/27/05 20:13:44 Russell_C: Great, can you tell me what you learned from the jobs you have done? 01/27/05 20:15:13 Indy_Mike: yeah, like I said, I know its more about using the right chems, not blasting the wood. I applied the cleaner with a brush, and washed it away with low pressure and it looked great. I've not gotten into a "hard" one yet as I've tried to steer away so I can 01/27/05 20:15:24 Indy_Mike: learn more first 01/27/05 20:16:04 Indy_Mike: so I'm looking for a good cleaner this year so I can do more wood work and gain some confidence 01/27/05 20:16:20 Russell_C: Excellent, well you have taken the first major step and it doesn't sound like you are afraid to learn 01/27/05 20:16:24 Indy_Mike: this season 01/27/05 20:16:36 Russell_C: We can take care of that for you, but let's back up 01/27/05 20:16:55 Russell_C: Can you tell me about your pricing structure? 01/27/05 20:17:02 Indy_Mike: not afraid to learn, just dont want to jump in over my head and damage someones deck, i pride myself on quality 01/27/05 20:17:48 Rod: Damage is easier to avoid than it is to undo. 01/27/05 20:18:02 Indy_Mike: I dont really have a structure for decks, as I've only done a few small ones (when doing a house wash) I just threw it in with the house wash, used a wood cleaner, and carefully rinsed it 01/27/05 20:18:16 Russell_C: We want to make sure they you are pricing yourself for success. We will make sure that you have the support you need to confidently and correctly use the products. 01/27/05 20:18:40 Russell_C: Alright, what part of the country are you in? 01/27/05 20:19:02 Indy_Mike: just small decks, wooden steps to a doorway, stuff like that, so I never set up a price structure as I stayed away from the big ones :) 01/27/05 20:19:06 Indy_Mike: Indiana 01/27/05 20:19:15 Russell_C: We can follow the structure that we use here with a few adjustments 01/27/05 20:19:35 scottk Logs in [68.154.64.236] 01/27/05 20:19:40 Indy_Mike: hey scott 01/27/05 20:19:44 scottk: hey mike 01/27/05 20:19:45 Russell_C: How much do you charg for a house wash on a 2000 sq foot single story home? 01/27/05 20:19:47 Rod: Hello Scott 01/27/05 20:19:52 Russell_C: Welcome Scott 01/27/05 20:19:53 scottk: hey rod 01/27/05 20:20:10 scottk: thanks russell 01/27/05 20:20:17 Indy_Mike: phone call, brb in a min 01/27/05 20:20:38 Russell_C: Scott, we are talking to Mike about pricing wood restoration in Indiana 01/27/05 20:20:55 Russell_C: but as he has had to step away, do you have any questions? 01/27/05 20:21:28 scottk: I have the wood pricing down...toobad our custoers don't get it................lol 01/27/05 20:21:49 scottk: ok and I can't type tonight 01/27/05 20:21:54 Russell_C: That actually made me laugh! 01/27/05 20:21:55 Rod: Seeling it to them in the long run format helps 01/27/05 20:21:57 Russell_C: Thank you 01/27/05 20:22:28 Russell_C: What part of the country are you in Scott? 01/27/05 20:22:30 scottk: Their feel they can build a new deck for wha the long run costs are 01/27/05 20:22:41 scottk: Southwest Ga russell 01/27/05 20:23:12 Russell_C: It's tough when the builder doesn't educate them on what the upkeep is going to be 01/27/05 20:23:28 Russell_C: Many homeowners are quite suprised 01/27/05 20:23:54 scottk: they think PT will last forever and that it is zero maintenance 01/27/05 20:24:34 scottk: when i talk about cleaning and the process we use they look at me like i'm crazy 01/27/05 20:24:52 scottk: they all think bleach isthe way to do it 01/27/05 20:25:11 Russell_C: Sounds like you need to do a lot of educating! 01/27/05 20:25:19 Rod: sounds like an ad campaign to educate them in the effects of bleach in the long run... 01/27/05 20:25:30 Rod: before during and after... 01/27/05 20:25:56 Russell_C: You could write a press release in time for spring and submit it to the local papers 01/27/05 20:26:45 scottk: we sent out 2000's info packs last year to homeowners with decks that covered all of the con's of bleach and the pro's of using the latest methods and had 1 call 01/27/05 20:26:52 Russell_C: Write it in the third person with yourself as the "expert" and you can steer them into a more correct way of thinking 01/27/05 20:27:07 Indy_Mike: sorry, it was family on the phone, russ looked like I charged .50 sq ft for the last deck i cleaned 01/27/05 20:27:23 scottk: wow mike i even get more than that 01/27/05 20:27:33 Russell_C: Okay Mike, we will work on that 01/27/05 20:27:46 Indy_Mike: like I said, it was a small one, I havent done a big deck yet as I've steered away from them 01/27/05 20:27:57 Russell_C: Mike how much does a gallon of milk cost there? 01/27/05 20:27:57 scottk: the last deck we did was $1.35 sq ft 01/27/05 20:28:14 Indy_Mike: scott I just brused on a cleaner and rinsed it off 01/27/05 20:28:22 scottk: ok 01/27/05 20:28:31 scottk: for cleaning only i charge much less 01/27/05 20:28:40 Indy_Mike: milk here is about 2.80 a gallon 01/27/05 20:29:03 Russell_C: Do you know the price for a wholesale dozen roses cash and carry? 01/27/05 20:29:37 scottk: 14.99 here for the roses 01/27/05 20:29:45 Indy_Mike: hmmm wholesale, I dont know. Last time the wife got a dozen roses it was 30 dollars on V day 01/27/05 20:29:46 scottk: milk 2.99 01/27/05 20:30:06 Russell_C: Mikie how about a movie ticket? 01/27/05 20:30:30 Indy_Mike: 7.50, 5.50 for the matinee 01/27/05 20:31:23 Russell_C: alright I would estimate that your market will bear about $1.40 to $1.55 for decks and about $2.50 for cedar homes 01/27/05 20:31:37 Indy_Mike: oh really? 01/27/05 20:31:47 Russell_C: Can you tell me a little bit about your operating expences? 01/27/05 20:32:28 Indy_Mike: I'm a part time one man operation with little overhead right now 01/27/05 20:32:51 Russell_C: I asked you for the price of a staple (milk) and a luxury item (movie ticket) compared them to the national average, cross refrenced with our price and made an ajustment. 01/27/05 20:33:23 Russell_C: The numbers I quoted you should serve as a good jumping off point. 01/27/05 20:33:38 Indy_Mike: ok thanks for the infor Russ 01/27/05 20:33:39 Russell_C: It sounds like you are running lean 01/27/05 20:33:46 Indy_Mike: information that is 01/27/05 20:34:06 Russell_C: do you plan to offer maint. packages? 01/27/05 20:34:44 Indy_Mike: I do for other services, I imagine if I did decks on a regular basis I would want to, yes 01/27/05 20:35:11 Russell_C: alright, do you plan to expand you labor force over the next 3 to 5 years? 01/27/05 20:36:02 Indy_Mike: I plan to go full time within a year, and maybe hire someone to help me in the following if it works out 01/27/05 20:36:18 Russell_C: Ok 01/27/05 20:36:32 Indy_Mike: dont want to grow to fast and cut quality :) 01/27/05 20:36:47 Russell_C: Great, I think I am with you 01/27/05 20:37:06 Russell_C: ok, how many decks would you like to clean this year? 01/27/05 20:37:36 Rod: You getting all this Scott :) Russ is pretty involving 01/27/05 20:37:47 Indy_Mike: hmm, thats a hard question, as I clean more then just wood ..thinking 01/27/05 20:38:08 Russell_C: By all means Scott, I don't mean to leave you out! Chime in if you like 01/27/05 20:38:19 Russell_C: stop! 01/27/05 20:38:25 Indy_Mike: right now I work 2-3 days a week doing this, will be full time hopefully this year 01/27/05 20:38:34 Russell_C: Mike, don't think, it will mess us all up 01/27/05 20:38:46 Russell_C: In the 1-3 days, what do you clean now? 01/27/05 20:39:23 Indy_Mike: 1 or 2, when I'm doing a house wash on average 01/27/05 20:39:32 Russell_C: (I was kidding by the way, humor is so easily lost in the digital translation) 01/27/05 20:39:50 Russell_C: Great, how many hours do you spend washing and what do you earn? 01/27/05 20:40:09 Indy_Mike: wake up scott :) 01/27/05 20:40:24 Indy_Mike: hours, hmm man your making me think 01/27/05 20:40:48 Russell_C: OK, keep it simple, how much cash do you drag home in 3 days? 01/27/05 20:42:10 Indy_Mike: cant tell you, my wife would have me outside with the dog 01/27/05 20:42:12 Rod: or need to bring home if that helps. 01/27/05 20:42:21 Russell_C: Mike, I understand that you are part time and some of my questions may be difficult to answer. 01/27/05 20:42:27 scottk: i'm here.... 01/27/05 20:42:34 Russell_C: We can work another way 01/27/05 20:42:43 Indy_Mike: whereas this going? 01/27/05 20:42:56 Russell_C: With wood restoration you can expect to clean about 150 square feet per hour starting out 01/27/05 20:43:25 Russell_C: You can expect to stain from 100 - 300 depending on the mothod being used 01/27/05 20:43:46 Rod: He is giving you a way to figure out how much money you can expect to make by finding out a few basic things 01/27/05 20:44:28 Russell_C: I also want to make sure that you are able to set your price according to your financial needs 01/27/05 20:44:50 Jessekirchhoff Logs in [12.215.229.90] 01/27/05 20:44:50 Russell_C: it does no good to have a price the market will bear if it does not support your buisness model 01/27/05 20:44:57 Russell_C: Welcome Jesse 01/27/05 20:45:07 Jessekirchhoff: Good Evening 01/27/05 20:45:14 Russell_C: We are talking with Mike about pricing structure for wood restoration 01/27/05 20:45:20 Rod: Hey Jesse 01/27/05 20:45:27 Jessekirchhoff: Hey Guys 01/27/05 20:45:30 Indy_Mike: thanks russ, got it all written down 01/27/05 20:45:51 Indy_Mike: Scott or Jesse have a question, I dont want to hog all the time 01/27/05 20:46:04 Russell_C: Great Mike, I would be happy to speak with you on the phone if you would like to go over it in more detail 01/27/05 20:46:18 Jessekirchhoff: I cant see what has been posted till now 01/27/05 20:46:42 Russell_C: We are also offering a preseason special on chems if you would like to try the HD-80, efc-38 or Citralic this season 01/27/05 20:47:10 Indy_Mike: Russ, I understand and your help is greatly appreciated. I just havent been one to like to give #'s over a public air I'll have to call you 01/27/05 20:47:12 Russell_C: Well, Jesse perhaps you will not be late to future wood chats? 01/27/05 20:47:23 Russell_C: Understand 01/27/05 20:47:30 Jessekirchhoff: Im sorry 01/27/05 20:47:34 Russell_C: you can reach me direct at 636-899-1769 01/27/05 20:47:42 Rod: Jesse, 01/27/05 20:47:53 Jessekirchhoff: yes sir 01/27/05 20:47:55 Russell_C: I've got an 800# but I will have to look that one up 01/27/05 20:48:07 Rod: Russ and mike were talking about possible deck production and how much you can make based upon production 01/27/05 20:48:09 Indy_Mike: I can pay the dime for your time 01/27/05 20:48:37 Indy_Mike: Jesse, do you clean decks? 01/27/05 20:49:10 Jessekirchhoff: I sure do 01/27/05 20:49:28 Jessekirchhoff: I prefer cedar siding $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 01/27/05 20:49:37 Rod: heard that! 01/27/05 20:49:47 Rod: logs!!!! 01/27/05 20:49:47 Russell_C: Easier than decks too! 01/27/05 20:50:13 Indy_Mike: different chems for the 2 ? 01/27/05 20:50:16 Jessekirchhoff: You can hunt elephants or you can hunt mice. I'll hunt elephants 01/27/05 20:50:19 Russell_C: Same 01/27/05 20:50:30 Russell_C: You fear mice 01/27/05 20:50:39 Jessekirchhoff: I like efc-38 on siding 01/27/05 20:50:53 Russell_C: Usually siding doesn't have as much stain on it 01/27/05 20:51:03 Russell_C: people go nuts on decks it seems 01/27/05 20:51:28 Jessekirchhoff: and it is normally 10 pluss years before they seal again' 01/27/05 20:51:31 Russell_C: efc-38 will handle most siding jobs and it is easier on the vegitation 01/27/05 20:51:42 Jessekirchhoff: and your skin 01/27/05 20:51:54 Russell_C: I still prefer to use a brightener after to really make it pop 01/27/05 20:52:09 Jessekirchhoff: I agree 01/27/05 20:52:20 Russell_C: Well, Jesse, perhaps if you would wear your protective gear you would not have these problems 01/27/05 20:53:06 Jessekirchhoff: what is protective gear? You wont catch me in no motorcycle helmet 01/27/05 20:53:08 Rod: Who says itchey skin is a (scratch,scratch,scratch) problem???? 01/27/05 20:53:35 Jessekirchhoff: and what the heck are all trhese blisters? 01/27/05 20:53:41 Russell_C: I will warn both of you, I have osha on speed dial! 01/27/05 20:53:53 Rod: yeah, I dont remember going to that place... 01/27/05 20:54:03 Rod: oh s8888 01/27/05 20:54:05 Russell_C: Mike, they are trying to scare you 01/27/05 20:54:13 Rod: oh S***** 01/27/05 20:54:22 Russell_C: though they might say I am trying to scar you 01/27/05 20:54:30 Rod: scar? 01/27/05 20:54:35 Rod: Ha! 01/27/05 20:54:38 Indy_Mike: ouch 01/27/05 20:54:49 Rod: Blisters is fer sissies... 01/27/05 20:55:10 Russell_C: HD-80 is a caustic stripper and you should wear protective clothing to avoid overspray 01/27/05 20:55:12 Rod: I drink so much soda that my body naturally neutralizes weverything... 01/27/05 20:55:20 Jessekirchhoff: ha 01/27/05 20:55:34 Indy_Mike: so if you were going to buy a good cleaner for doing decks, what would you buy? 01/27/05 20:55:44 Russell_C: We also recommend drinking water to prevent dehidration 01/27/05 20:55:47 Rod: who? 01/27/05 20:55:58 shadow Logs in [151.213.145.138] 01/27/05 20:56:00 Russell_C: efc-38 01/27/05 20:56:05 Russell_C: Welcome Shadow 01/27/05 20:56:14 Rod: Hello Shadow, who might you be? 01/27/05 20:56:16 shadow: hows it goin 01/27/05 20:56:27 shadow: my name is mike 01/27/05 20:56:28 Jessekirchhoff: great 01/27/05 20:56:30 scottk: only the shadow knows.............lol 01/27/05 20:56:45 shadow: thats right 01/27/05 20:56:56 Rod: Hi mike 01/27/05 20:57:01 Russell_C: Mike, I would really recommend that you get all three so that you are fully armed 01/27/05 20:57:14 Jessekirchhoff: I agree 01/27/05 20:57:19 Rod: so far, talk has been about chems, wood, and protective gear 01/27/05 20:57:26 Russell_C: HD-80, efc-38 and Citralic brightener/neutralizer 01/27/05 20:57:36 BethnRod Logs in [63.158.252.128] 01/27/05 20:57:44 BethnRod: evening all! 01/27/05 20:57:50 Rod: uh, I am already here...Hi hon! 01/27/05 20:57:52 Russell_C: Welcome bethnrod 01/27/05 20:58:07 shadow: I'm new to the biz and i'm so glad that I found this site 01/27/05 20:58:09 BethnRod: its just Beth ;) 01/27/05 20:58:27 shadow: its been really helpful 01/27/05 20:58:27 Russell_C: Great Shadow, have you got any questions for us? 01/27/05 20:58:33 Indy_Mike: where do I find efc? 01/27/05 20:58:45 Rod: Russell is the guest speaker tonight. 01/27/05 20:58:57 scottk: beth sells efc mike...man have you ever been to the TGS store 01/27/05 20:58:59 Russell_C: You can order it through The grime scene 01/27/05 20:59:24 shadow: what sould i run for min gpm i was told 8gpm 01/27/05 20:59:31 Russell_C: Ask Beth about the special! 01/27/05 20:59:40 Russell_C: Shadow, what are you cleaning? 01/27/05 20:59:41 Indy_Mike: *perk* special 01/27/05 21:00:01 Russell_C: Heck yeah, 20% off this next week on bundles 01/27/05 21:00:15 BethnRod: You mean the RED HOT 20% off and free shipping till Feb 5th on Extreme Solutions chems deal? 01/27/05 21:00:29 Jessekirchhoff: Hi Beth.........WHAT A bargin 01/27/05 21:00:33 Russell_C: if you go for the 3 10s you will save about $50.00 01/27/05 21:00:43 shadow: houses and concrete 01/27/05 21:00:51 Russell_C: yeah, and if you go for 3 30's you will get free freight on top of that 01/27/05 21:01:11 Russell_C: Well, some houses have water restrictors Shadow 01/27/05 21:01:24 shadow: all do in ga 01/27/05 21:01:28 Russell_C: You might run into trouble 01/27/05 21:01:39 scottk: where in Ga shadow? 01/27/05 21:01:50 Indy_Mike: Scott, been there to the store, I'm just not good with remembering names & numbers like r2 d2 and c3po :) 01/27/05 21:01:52 Russell_C: Was this a distributor that told you to go with 8gpm? 01/27/05 21:01:53 shadow: north of atlanta 01/27/05 21:01:56 Jessekirchhoff: Sounds like I better stock up now before Russ decides to jack up the prices for 2005 01/27/05 21:02:28 shadow: no a biz owner 01/27/05 21:02:46 Russell_C: Well, 8gpm is nice no doubt, but that is a lot of machine 01/27/05 21:02:50 scottk: since you are new shadow you might wantto att6end 1 of the roundtable meetings in Ga 01/27/05 21:02:57 Russell_C: We run 4 gpm 01/27/05 21:03:18 BethnRod: Does anyone have warm weather? 01/27/05 21:03:26 Russell_C: At 4 gpm we can clean 4 - 500 sq feet per hour 01/27/05 21:03:30 BethnRod: It's going down to 4 here tonight. 4! 01/27/05 21:03:50 Russell_C: That is obsurd! 01/27/05 21:04:15 Rod: 8gpm is only good if you have a tank, most hose ibbs only deliver 3-6 gpm 01/27/05 21:04:16 Russell_C: I think you would be better to get 2 4gpm machines 01/27/05 21:04:28 shadow: I want to come to a roundtable but hows it work 01/27/05 21:04:43 Russell_C: Just show up Shadow 01/27/05 21:04:55 Russell_C: it is all about contractors helping each other 01/27/05 21:05:00 scottk: i'm hosting one in Albany Feb 5th...show up and learn 01/27/05 21:05:03 Rod: Shadow, just attend, and participate. 01/27/05 21:05:09 Russell_C: you are welcome and qualified! 01/27/05 21:05:10 shadow: cool what do we talk about 01/27/05 21:05:18 Rod: beth and I are hosting one feb 12 01/27/05 21:05:27 shadow: where 01/27/05 21:05:33 BethnRod: Germantown MD 01/27/05 21:05:39 Russell_C: getting jobs, bidding jobs, selling jobs, collecting for jobs 01/27/05 21:05:42 Rod: most are open topic unless they have a specific guest speaker. 01/27/05 21:05:53 Russell_C: oh and doing jobs 01/27/05 21:06:24 shadow: so 8 gpm is to much 01/27/05 21:06:29 Indy_Mike: F series wood care kit? 01/27/05 21:06:42 Russell_C: For the work you described (residential) I feel it is. 01/27/05 21:06:58 Rod: yeah, unless you have atank to draw from 01/27/05 21:07:04 Russell_C: I would sugest you go with the Extreme Solutions products 01/27/05 21:07:09 Jessekirchhoff: 8 gpm is an expensive piece of equipment 01/27/05 21:07:17 shadow: well i want to move in to comm. 01/27/05 21:07:30 Rod: we have an 8gpm, but it is dual gun@4gpm/gun 01/27/05 21:07:53 shadow: i have the funds for 1 8gpm setup 01/27/05 21:07:54 Rod: 5-6gpm is more suitable 01/27/05 21:08:05 Indy_Mike: ok i see the sample kit with efc now 01/27/05 21:08:11 Rod: how about for the tank? 01/27/05 21:08:20 scottk: i agree with rod 5-6 is more than enough 01/27/05 21:08:40 shadow: prob 300+ 01/27/05 21:09:08 Rod: then go for it, but get a water meter, you may need it 01/27/05 21:09:12 Russell_C: Shadow, you should look at the work you will do with the maching in the first year 01/27/05 21:09:12 shadow: but 8 i can run 2 guns 01/27/05 21:09:23 Jessekirchhoff: I can get you 250 gallon tanks for free if you want to pick them up in Jefferson City Missouri 01/27/05 21:09:37 Rod: Shadow, is your unit set up to run 2 guns? 01/27/05 21:10:00 shadow: i don't have one yet 01/27/05 21:10:19 Rod: understood, but is the one you are referring to set up that way? 01/27/05 21:10:26 shadow: i have one by next week 01/27/05 21:10:36 shadow: yes 01/27/05 21:10:49 scottk: are you looking at a skid unit shadow 01/27/05 21:10:57 shadow: yes 01/27/05 21:10:58 scottk: ??? 01/27/05 21:11:01 Rod: ok, then you are thinking of how you are going to make your production by now... 01/27/05 21:11:06 scottk: price??? 01/27/05 21:11:33 Rod: 2 man team. 01/27/05 21:11:36 Jessekirchhoff Disconnects 01/27/05 21:11:41 scottk: of the unit you want to buy? 01/27/05 21:11:51 shadow: yes 2 man teaaaaaaam 01/27/05 21:12:08 Russell_C: $4999.00 01/27/05 21:12:29 shadow: $10000 01/27/05 21:12:39 Russell_C: Call me tomorrow! 01/27/05 21:12:43 BethnRod: Mike are you doing decks out there? 01/27/05 21:12:57 Rod: 7500.00 for a hydrotek we got... 01/27/05 21:13:03 shadow: thats wwith everything 01/27/05 21:13:04 scottk: wow...i paid under $4ooo.oo for our largo unit delivered 01/27/05 21:13:21 scottk: 5.5gpm/3500psi 180degree hot water 01/27/05 21:13:22 shadow: but 8 gpm 01/27/05 21:13:23 Russell_C: Shadow, I would like to talk with you 01/27/05 21:13:37 Rod: 3stack hose reels, 225gal tank and the unit 01/27/05 21:13:41 Russell_C: Can you tell me who you are working with now? 01/27/05 21:13:44 JesseKirchhoff Logs in [12.215.229.90] 01/27/05 21:13:56 Russell_C: Welcome back Jesse 01/27/05 21:14:02 JesseKirchhoff: Thanks 01/27/05 21:14:05 BethnRod: Hi Jesse 01/27/05 21:14:09 Rod: hey jesse, watch that snow and ice, it can slide you out of the chat room :) 01/27/05 21:14:35 JesseKirchhoff: So can the eraser at the bottom of the screen 01/27/05 21:14:36 scottk: you can but 2- 5.5 gallon skid or teh price of 1 8gpm machine 01/27/05 21:14:48 BethnRod: *meow* 01/27/05 21:14:52 JesseKirchhoff: *) 01/27/05 21:15:01 scottk: you can buy 01/27/05 21:15:19 Rod: He will save room though 01/27/05 21:15:28 shadow: no one but i got a guy who is doing lots com. work thats going to help me when i get my unit 01/27/05 21:15:54 Rod: good deal 01/27/05 21:15:55 Russell_C: Who is helping you purchase the equipment? 01/27/05 21:16:19 shadow: i was told 8 gpm is the way to go 01/27/05 21:16:29 scottk: that's true rod......i just knwo with Angela and i working i need her free to pull hoses and mix chems when we are on a job 01/27/05 21:16:41 shadow: ga chem. 01/27/05 21:17:02 JesseKirchhoff: Hey Russ....tell us about the new Wood Tux packaging for contractors. 01/27/05 21:17:19 scottk: shadow they are going to say anythingto sell you a higher priced machine...after all they are salesmen 01/27/05 21:18:05 Russell_C: What about it Jesse? 01/27/05 21:18:24 shadow: this was not a saleman who told me 01/27/05 21:18:26 JesseKirchhoff: Warm Honey Gold? 01/27/05 21:18:40 Rod: while supplies last lol 01/27/05 21:19:04 shadow: and its a hot water setup 01/27/05 21:19:17 Rod: Hot is best for commercial cleaing 01/27/05 21:19:18 scottk: it's your money and business 01/27/05 21:19:20 Russell_C: It will be available in 5 gallon pails and also in bulk by special order. There will also be tint kits available this year so you can custum mix any color you like 01/27/05 21:19:38 JesseKirchhoff: Wow 01/27/05 21:19:53 shadow: this is a setup with hoses and 30" surface cleaner 01/27/05 21:19:53 scottk: we do 8 Mickey D's and Applebee's and Hooter monthly with a 5.5gpm hotwater skid 01/27/05 21:20:27 BethnRod: anyone doing a home show this spring? 01/27/05 21:20:36 Russell_C: I am 01/27/05 21:20:38 shadow: how many guns are u runnig 01/27/05 21:20:50 scottk: i built our rig with hoses surface cleaner,trailer tank everything ready to work for under $8k 01/27/05 21:20:53 scottk: one gun 01/27/05 21:21:08 JesseKirchhoff Logs Out 01/27/05 21:21:08 shadow: so are u going back w cold unit for rense 01/27/05 21:21:13 shadow: rinse 01/27/05 21:21:28 JesseKirchhoff Logs in [12.215.229.90] 01/27/05 21:21:38 scottk: we do the Mickey D's(3700 sq ft average) in 2hours 15 minutes 01/27/05 21:21:38 Rod: thers that ice again Jesse 01/27/05 21:21:55 JesseKirchhoff: Sorry....My fingers are to big 01/27/05 21:21:55 Russell_C: Jesse is having connection issues 01/27/05 21:21:59 shadow: how much do u charge a sq 01/27/05 21:22:25 Indy_Mike: how far does a 10 gal tub of efc get me? 01/27/05 21:22:26 shadow: what area r u in 01/27/05 21:22:36 scottk: on commercial the cost is lower than residential...commercial .05 to .10 a sq ft 01/27/05 21:22:43 Russell_C: 1500 square feet 01/27/05 21:22:53 scottk: residential .10 to .25 01/27/05 21:22:55 Russell_C: whoa, thats not right 01/27/05 21:23:00 shadow: that is what i was told by the person that is helping me get info together 01/27/05 21:23:08 Russell_C: Mike the correct answer is 3000 sq feet 01/27/05 21:23:25 Indy_Mike: ok thanks 01/27/05 21:23:39 shadow: what is efc 01/27/05 21:23:49 Russell_C: Mike, that is if you have to use it full stregnth, on most jobs you can cut back 01/27/05 21:24:01 Russell_C: It is a heavy duty wood cleaner 01/27/05 21:24:08 shadow: for decks? 01/27/05 21:24:08 BethnRod: EFC is a percarb used for wood care. :) 01/27/05 21:24:14 JesseKirchhoff: on cedar siding you can cut way back 01/27/05 21:24:25 Russell_C: efc-38 was designed to clean wood and remove most semitransparent finishes 01/27/05 21:24:44 scottk: not tryingto talk you out of buying the equipment....just trying to shwo you theer is another way and it's just as efficient 01/27/05 21:25:31 shadow: when u guys are talking to mc d and the like are u having any trouble talking to hte owners or r u having to go thru several people to get to the right one 01/27/05 21:25:31 JesseKirchhoff: using the right chems is the secret......saves a bunch on labor 01/27/05 21:25:44 shadow: the owners 01/27/05 21:26:09 scottk: i deal with the owner.....we started with district manager 01/27/05 21:26:28 shadow: kul 01/27/05 21:26:32 scottk: they are the lowest level managemen t that can hire you 01/27/05 21:27:06 shadow: r any of u familar with any types of city or county laws ect that require periodic cleaning 01/27/05 21:27:16 scottk: i wish you would drive down to albany next weekend before you buy any equipment 01/27/05 21:27:22 JesseKirchhoff: Hey Russ...hows that Wood Tux Wet coming? 01/27/05 21:27:29 shadow: where in albany 01/27/05 21:27:36 Russell_C: Ready for spring 01/27/05 21:27:47 scottk: Hooters 10 am Feb 5th 01/27/05 21:27:53 JesseKirchhoff: Fantastic :D 01/27/05 21:28:20 scottk: teh info is posted on the main bb of TGS 01/27/05 21:28:22 scottk: the 01/27/05 21:28:25 shadow: i am scooot k also and am typing for shadow and myself sso if i am asking requestions i am sorry 01/27/05 21:28:57 shadow: and i am a little faster but wiht more mistakes 01/27/05 21:29:02 scottk: lol 01/27/05 21:29:03 shadow: with 01/27/05 21:29:08 Indy_Mike: shadow, will you clean decks? 01/27/05 21:29:14 shadow: yes 01/27/05 21:29:26 Indy_Mike: any questions about it? 01/27/05 21:29:33 Indy_Mike: Russ is very knowledgeable 01/27/05 21:29:33 shadow: is it better to do decks w cold or hot 01/27/05 21:29:58 Russell_C: Cold 01/27/05 21:29:59 shadow: this is a great chat thanks for all of ur help 01/27/05 21:30:05 shadow: why 01/27/05 21:30:25 shadow: because of the expansion of the wood? 01/27/05 21:30:25 Russell_C: Hot water can cause the natural sugars in the wood to rise to the surface 01/27/05 21:30:32 Rod: hot saftens the wood and makes it easier to dig out the heart wood, causeing a raised grain effect. 01/27/05 21:30:41 shadow: i would have never guessd that 01/27/05 21:30:46 Russell_C: It is best to maintain the sugars as they help to maintain the woods integrity 01/27/05 21:30:52 shadow: good to know 01/27/05 21:31:15 shadow: do u mostly sell a sealer with all of your deck cleanings 01/27/05 21:31:26 Russell_C: We do yes 01/27/05 21:31:32 shadow: what type if so 01/27/05 21:31:41 shadow: and how do u apply 01/27/05 21:32:07 Russell_C: We apply the Wood-Tux by a combination of spray and back pad/brush 01/27/05 21:32:19 shadow: why the pad brush 01/27/05 21:32:27 Russell_C: sometimes if it is windy we just pad or brush 01/27/05 21:32:36 scottk: shadow look under regional news and events for the roundtable info(southeat region) 01/27/05 21:32:41 shadow: makes since 01/27/05 21:32:48 Russell_C: It helps to disturb any surface dust and drive the product into the wood 01/27/05 21:32:59 Russell_C: it also helps prevent drips and puddling 01/27/05 21:33:03 shadow: already did and i hope i can make it but may have other obligations 01/27/05 21:33:26 shadow: what area r u guys in? 01/27/05 21:33:37 Russell_C: I am located in the St Louis market 01/27/05 21:33:41 shadow: i am starting in jackson co 01/27/05 21:34:01 shadow: cold weather hitting u hard yet? 01/27/05 21:34:08 shadow: jackson co ga 01/27/05 21:34:25 Russell_C: I am too busy to be cold 01/27/05 21:34:33 Indy_Mike > BethnRod: read john t's post? 01/27/05 21:34:41 Russell_C: It has been a mild winter actually 01/27/05 21:34:42 shadow: how do u store a unit for a period 01/27/05 21:34:55 scottk: worth co Ga...we are 20 minutes from albany 01/27/05 21:35:01 Russell_C: There is a winterization process 01/27/05 21:35:21 shadow: how long does a unit have to sit to make it necc 01/27/05 21:35:40 Russell_C: well if it is not going to freexe you do not have to winterize 01/27/05 21:35:44 shadow: if i go on vacition do i need to winterize 01/27/05 21:35:53 Russell_C: but you do not want to let gas sit in it for over 60 days 01/27/05 21:35:57 shadow: i w3ill keep it in a grage 01/27/05 21:36:01 shadow: gurage 01/27/05 21:36:05 shadow: dang 01/27/05 21:36:08 Russell_C: does it ever freeze? 01/27/05 21:36:12 shadow: that patio thing 01/27/05 21:36:17 shadow: yes 01/27/05 21:36:27 shadow: but never very often 01/27/05 21:36:32 Russell_C: then you want to winterize it every night 01/27/05 21:37:01 shadow: three days of 32 degree weather is a cold spell and the citys start shut down schoools 01/27/05 21:37:12 Russell_C: Oh, gotcha 01/27/05 21:37:14 shadow: what do u need to do every night in the cold 01/27/05 21:37:26 Russell_C: well, a heating pad on cold nights should get you through 01/27/05 21:37:34 shadow: good idea 01/27/05 21:37:41 shadow: just around the pump? 01/27/05 21:37:44 Russell_C: It would be difficult to explain in this format 01/27/05 21:37:51 Russell_C: yes, around the pump 01/27/05 21:38:18 Russell_C: Would everyone like to hear the winterization process? 01/27/05 21:38:47 shadow: if u would like to tralk to me u can send an e mail to djshadow1191@aol.com and i will give u my phjone ort u can give urs 01/27/05 21:38:53 shadow: talk 01/27/05 21:39:03 shadow: c what i mean about n=more mistakes 01/27/05 21:39:06 shadow: more 01/27/05 21:39:15 Russell_C: You can call me at 636-899-1769 and I will be happy to talk you through it 01/27/05 21:39:25 shadow: thanks 01/27/05 21:39:32 Russell_C: Give me a call tomorrow 01/27/05 21:39:34 shadow: wirtting it down 01/27/05 21:39:36 Russell_C: or whenever 01/27/05 21:39:41 shadow: when 01/27/05 21:39:50 Russell_C: Anytime 01/27/05 21:39:52 shadow: u said u were in st louis 01/27/05 21:33:00 Russell_C: Yes 01/27/05 21:33:17 shadow: 1 hr time diff i will call u tomorrow ( shadow) 01/27/05 21:33:31 Russell_C: Great 01/27/05 21:33:33 shadow: he sleeps till noon our time so dont expect it in the am 01/27/05 21:33:49 Russell_C: Mike, were you able to find the cleaners you were looking for? 01/27/05 21:34:10 Indy_Mike Logs Out 01/27/05 21:34:35 scottk Logs Out 01/27/05 21:34:39 Russell_C: I guess I will never know 01/27/05 21:34:49 Russell_C: And good bye to scott 01/27/05 21:35:17 Russell_C: Alright, whats next? 01/27/05 21:35:53 shadow: whats the best surface cleaner out there 01/27/05 21:36:09 Russell_C: I like the Big guy 01/27/05 21:36:10 Rod: Time for me to go nitey~~ 01/27/05 21:36:28 Russell_C: But I guess that depends on what you are looking for 01/27/05 21:36:32 BethnRod: have fun guys 01/27/05 21:36:40 shadow: 28 in right 01/27/05 21:36:42 Russell_C: Steel Eagle has the highes quality that I have seen 01/27/05 21:36:45 Rod: Shadow, the one that gives you the least problems lol 01/27/05 21:36:46 BethnRod Logs Out 01/27/05 21:36:54 Rod: nite all~ 01/27/05 21:37:00 Russell_C: Bye guys! 01/27/05 21:37:10 shadow: call u 01/27/05 21:37:19 Rod Logs Out 01/27/05 21:37:40 Russell_C: Alright, it's just us 3 01/27/05 21:37:53 Russell_C: And I think Jesse is sleeping 01/27/05 21:38:03 Russell_C: Jesse. . .wake up 01/27/05 21:38:40 Russell_C: Well Shadow did you have any other questions this evening? 01/27/05 21:38:59 JesseKirchhoff: huh..what...? 01/27/05 21:39:08 shadow: no i'll call u for the rest 01/27/05 21:39:18 JesseKirchhoff: I have lots of questions 01/27/05 21:39:20 Russell_C: No problem 01/27/05 21:39:32 Russell_C: What can we help you with Jesse? 01/27/05 21:39:49 shadow: thanks for all your help i can't thank u enough 01/27/05 21:40:13 JesseKirchhoff: Did you sell anything? 01/27/05 21:40:20 Russell_C: Just work with integrity and don't low ball your competition and that will be thanks enough 01/27/05 21:40:42 JesseKirchhoff: And use Wood Tux 01/27/05 21:40:46 Russell_C: Oh, and buy all of your wood care products from a qualified Extreme Solutions, Inc. rep! 01/27/05 21:41:02 shadow: nite i'm out of here 01/27/05 21:41:11 JesseKirchhoff: Good Night 01/27/05 21:41:12 shadow: will do 01/27/05 21:41:13 Russell_C: Good Night and good luck! 01/27/05 21:41:14 scottk Logs in [68.154.64.236] 01/27/05 21:41:20 shadow Logs Out 01/27/05 21:41:23 Russell_C: Welcome back scott 01/27/05 21:41:29 scottk: ty 01/27/05 21:41:31 JesseKirchhoff: Welcome 01/27/05 21:41:36 scottk: hi Jesse 01/27/05 21:41:45 JesseKirchhoff: Hello 01/27/05 21:41:49 scottk: Russell did you overload shadows brain 01/27/05 21:41:57 Russell_C: I might have 01/27/05 21:42:07 JesseKirchhoff: He is good at that 01/27/05 21:42:18 scottk: i hope they will come to my RT on the 5th...i think they could learn alot 01/27/05 21:42:38 Russell_C: I am trying to get people to take advantage of the special on ESI products right now 01/27/05 21:42:58 Russell_C: They have never offered as much of a disscount 01/27/05 21:43:07 JesseKirchhoff: and not doing a very good job 01/27/05 21:43:18 Russell_C: when I say they, I should say we 01/27/05 21:43:26 Russell_C: Scott, I am with ESI 01/27/05 21:43:33 scottk: we have been using Steve Rowletts chems for a year...but we are always looking for additional chem for teh arsenal 01/27/05 21:43:50 JesseKirchhoff: You are in the right place 01/27/05 21:43:51 Russell_C: This would be a great time to check them out 01/27/05 21:43:53 scottk: i knew Russell...what happened you the website 01/27/05 21:44:06 scottk: last time i checked it was down 01/27/05 21:44:07 JesseKirchhoff: I stole it 01/27/05 21:44:08 Russell_C: 20% off and free shipping when you buy all 3 01/27/05 21:44:16 Russell_C: We are re working it 01/27/05 21:44:20 Russell_C: taking off the store 01/27/05 21:44:24 scottk: that is a good deal 01/27/05 21:44:50 Russell_C: we are taking down the store in an effort to help support our distributors 01/27/05 21:44:57 JesseKirchhoff: good man 01/27/05 21:45:03 scottk: that's generous 01/27/05 21:45:09 Russell_C: Especially if you buy the 30s and there is no limit 01/27/05 21:45:31 Russell_C: I think a couple guys are going to buy several months worth now 01/27/05 21:45:45 JesseKirchhoff: Good idea 01/27/05 21:46:04 JesseKirchhoff: free shiping saves $20 a pop 01/27/05 21:46:33 Russell_C: Did you have any other questions Scott? 01/27/05 21:46:48 Russell_C: This is turning into an infomercial 01/27/05 21:46:49 scottk: naw 01/27/05 21:46:52 scottk: lol 01/27/05 21:47:43 Russell_C: Well, thank you for joining us this evening 01/27/05 21:47:55 JesseKirchhoff: where are you going? 01/27/05 21:47:57 scottk: we like the dry chems because we can carry more on the trailer...but the RPC stuff has been good to us...and steve is a friend so i try to stay loyal to him 01/27/05 21:48:14 Russell_C: I can understand that! 01/27/05 21:48:20 Russell_C: Loyalty is important 01/27/05 21:48:34 JesseKirchhoff: Try Russ's product...if you dont like it he will refund your money 01/27/05 21:48:58 scottk: but if we come across chems that will benefit us we'll try them 01/27/05 21:49:05 Russell_C: Well, not me personally! but they do all carry a 100% satisfaction guarentee 01/27/05 21:49:29 JesseKirchhoff: I use a half a bucket and send the rest back all the time under different names 01/27/05 21:49:39 scottk: lol 01/27/05 21:49:54 Russell_C: That is just the kind of thing I like to mention in the monday meeting! 01/27/05 21:49:55 JesseKirchhoff: did I say that out loud? 01/27/05 21:50:41 Russell_C: Jesse is a plague on the industry! 01/27/05 21:51:09 Russell_C: Oh, did I say that out loud? 01/27/05 21:51:14 JesseKirchhoff: yes 01/27/05 21:51:35 scottk: guys it's been fun...have a great nite 01/27/05 21:51:43 scottk Logs Out 01/27/05 21:51:53 Russell_C: You too Scott. I look forward to working with you in the comming months 01/27/05 21:52:06 Russell_C: I am out of here as well 01/27/05 21:52:08 JesseKirchhoff: he cant hear you 01/27/05 21:52:13 Russell_C: Have a great evening Jesse 01/27/05 21:52:20 Russell_C: I will talk with you tomorrow 01/27/05 21:52:29 JesseKirchhoff: you to Russ........see you this weekend 01/27/05 21:52:37 Russell_C Logs Out 01/27/05 21:52:46 JesseKirchhoff Logs Out

Henry, I know about that guy. And perhaps this is a good example of customer perception based upon my experience with the person you mentioned. He was a very belittling person who treated me 'a potential client' with a great lack of respect. All I did was ask him if he had a particular sized O'ring for my unloader in which I brought in the part for example. He went off on a rant about how people like me dont know jack about their machines and have no business doing otherwise. In addition, giving him the benefit of the doubt he was having a bad day, I asked him about bringing in a couple of other machines I needed work on since he was the local Home Depot authorized service center...He had nothing going on in his shop and told me flat out it would be 2-3 weeks. I dont know what his problem is, but I dont have any confidence in him to do a good job since he didnt do a good job with me as a potential client. That's why I drive way out to Frederick for McHenry's . They treat my business well. Rod~

It varies with the season and the project. on average, 8-10 Rod~

Thanks Don, I was going to do that but now I can stay inside toasty warm! :) Rod~

It sounds like you have a #16 instead of a #13 as illustrated by the throw you are NOT getting :) I will check and see if there is a way to determine which one you have... Rod~