Your Favorite House Wash Brew

[CCHSNC 14]

I have used emulsifier plus and rowletts citri clean mix. I have had good resolts with both but I'm not sold out yet. Which is your favorite??

[Guest rfitz]

Paul,

You are so right, every house is different, and people will learn this as they go, I just try and give broad advice, on this particular house you have pictured, I would only wash and rinse the one side at a time, and probably Xjet the front, I do this fairly often on the front of homes, as these are the focal point for the homeowner..., there are so many variables on every house

you just have to learn as you grow...

Take Care

[JustMe 14]

Originally posted by Paul B.

Rob,

You need to remember that for a large number of folks out there, downstreaming does not work (or work properly) when hose lengths are in excess of 150 feet. The X-jet is a solution for those folks.

Wow, that is a big house for your typical house wash. Looks like you got the market covered if you are doing them regularly.. :cool:

[JustMe 14]

You both have very good points, how often do you guys run into stuff you have to tape and cover with your styles and chems? Do you have much worry about brass and other metals, plants and paint?

[Guest rfitz]

I never cover anything or tape anything off when washing a house,

I pre-wet the grass and bushes, other than that, thats it, and never killed

1 plant or any grass, even if I did, I would replace it, stuff like that is pretty cheap, now when doing wood, that is a different story, lots of stuff needs to be protected, as you are using much more harsh chems. such as potassium and sodium hydroxides and oxalic acids, now those chems can do some damage

[Paul B. 523]

Ron,

The precautions we take are fairly common:

- Pre-wet and rinse plants and foliage.

- Windows are pre-wet and rinsed before detergent dries.

- Only tape if we run across open phone boxes, open electrical outlets or vents we can't cautiously work around.

- We use EXTREME caution around electric lines leading into homes.

- I look for paint that may be failing/chipping when I bid the work and either pass on the work, or if I feel comfortable enough not to pass on the work, I put a note in the estimate and we use extreme caution when cleaning.

- With pre-wetting and rinsing, brass and most metals are not or have not been an issue for us. However, I keep an eye out and make notes of special items on each estimate. The only time brass, copper and other metals are of concern is when we do new construction, or clean with acids - then we tape as necessary.

- Run-off is always a concern - I check to see where the gutter spouts run off to and sometimes have to redirect or disconnect, as I've found some to run off onto plants, into creeks, ponds or storm systems.

- Run-off is also a concern on driveways - we dam to keep it away from the streets and storm systems.

- Working around asphalt is always a concern for us, using detergents that are heavy degreasers - it tends to take the oils out of asphalt. We pre-wet and rinse heavily and keep run-off from puddling on asphalt. 90% of driveways are horribly constructed - rather than being slightly crowned (less crown than football fields have), they are concave or flat with sink holes, sags or just run toward a garage, or the house. If constructed flat, driveways should slant away from structures and slightly to one side. Driveway, porch and other concrete rinsing is one of the key elements I look for when estimating, as in a lot of cases can consume a lot of time and kill healthy profits.

- We use the X-jet and other methods to clean. When we use the X-jet, we are cautious to avoid close contact and not blow water under the siding. We stick around long enough after each job to ensure that if there are any, all weeps are wiped away so we don't have to make a trip back to FIX. We also do a walk around after we think we are finished, but before clean-up to ensure nothing is missed. If the customer is home, then they are asked to review and judge the work before we leave.

- Of course general safety is always on our minds. We keep it there with two key mottos:

"Safety First and Make IT Last!" and

"Safety is NO Accident!"

[jsavoy 14]

Paul B I have washed plenty of houses that size. Using my downstream setup. The first house you showed a pick of I could easliy do in 2 hours. The second picture looks like it would be no problem either. I do have a 10ft wand I use and can get most two stories from the ground. Except if there is a upstairs balcony. Hate those. Have to bring in the ladder for those, but the price goes up also !!

[Guest rfitz]

Jsavoy, I would agree with you on time to wash that house, approx. 2 hours add another hour if they want gutters brushed like new again, just as an example for this house the one with the front view, the starting price would be $450.00 gutters additional $125.00, but I see no reason on this house for an extension wand, but then again I get 60+feet with my shooter tips, but I would say this is the average size of houses I washed last year, I would also upsell this owner on driveway, sidewalks, patios, maybe a deck if they have one, also when I am done people always tell me to please call them every year to schedule a cleaning, they usually want this done every year it seems as people with these type of homes do quite a bit of entertaining, not to mention they like taking care of such a large investment, as I tell them, cleaning often, is much cheaper than replacing later....

[Paul B. 523]

Folks,

I didn't say if you could or could not wash those homes in 2 hours - what I said was:

"I guess washing and rinsing 2 sides of a house at one time depends on what size the houses are that you are washing, how dirty they are and if the sides are exposed to the sun in 95+ degree temperatures. ..."

We did have to disconnect several down-spouts as they drained into a pond and the storm drain system. The patio and sidewalk were already clean and the sealer was still in tact on that property (no wooden deck). However, we cleaned & resealed the customer's driveway. In addition we cleaned his brothers house, cleaned and sealed his brother's driveway. These people helped me generate over $25K of work in their neighborhood (in 1 year). They continue to be my "diamond in the rough" customers.

Rob,

Just curious - If you charge $450 for a 2 hour job ($225 per hour), why do you charge $125 for an hour of gutter cleaning?

Here is the front of the 2nd house:

[Guest rfitz]

Paul,

That is for wash time only, 2 hours doesnt include setting up, pre-wetting foliage, cleaning up after words, reeling up, etc.. if I get the house wash they will get good discounts on other add on work, actual time of entire job, not including gutters would be closer to 3 hours and that doesnt include drive time, estimating time, shooting the bull time etc.. so my hourly rate is way below 225.00 an hour in all consideration, I think you did great if you got another 25K from referral work off this job, that is the name of the game

so you are right on target

[jsavoy 14]

$450 for a house wash seems a little high. There is no way to get that much in my area. The first house looks to be like a $150 job to me. That's still $75 an hour! Ohh yea I wasn't saying how long or short I could do it either. I was just stating I could do it in that amount of time using my downstream setup.

[Guest rfitz]

Where I live, usually house wash's start at $250 which is a pretty small

ranch or 2 story, maybe 1500-1800 sq ft but mostly I do houses in the 3000 to 5000 sq ft range, therefore averaging last year house wash at $415.00

and average deck was $825.00

[dfox99 14]

Thanks Paul that explains the debate on rinse agents. Yes, I use the mix prescribed by the supplier along with the recommended rinse aid. The one in my rig in one of the downstream tanks is Zep's product. I have only used that in washing cars and it works well. I want to try that on vinyl whenever it quits snowing!

The fisrt house you showed would probably bring $200-250 for me and that includes a quick brushing with the gutter cleaner. I'd still be out of there in about 2 hours or so as long as there were no surprises. Flatwork isn't very popular so upselling that is rare.

Has anyone done any deicing such as large ice buildups on houses? If so how do you do it? I think there could be some huge demand for it around here. This might make a qood question for a separate post. Thanks.

Doug Fox

[dfox99 14]

A small ranch would be right at my minimum of $150. If they were elderly I would probably say $125.

Doug Fox

[Guest rfitz]

Im sorry, I didnt understand that last post about the debate on rinse aids,

what debate were you referring to..? to use them, not to use them, or what are they used for..? please clarify..

THX

[dfox99 14]

Above (this thread is so long) I wondered why not use them in the wash when some said not to, and Paul explained it. Got to go back 2 or 3 pages. Maybe debate was not the best word to use.

Doug Fox

[Paul B. 523]

Doug,

My minimum is $135-$150 depending on type of work, workload and season.

$575 for that size house (including gutter) would get you 1 out of 100 or maybe 50 jobs in my area. Most customers are frugal and somewhat smart (my area is very conservative) - they would figure if it took you 5 hrs. for you to do the job at $60 per hour it would cost $300 at best. GENERALLY, services around here charge approx. in the $60 per hour range or lower (exceptions are plumbers at $65/hr.; car repair is $75; average lawyer is about $100; and the average doctor is about $225 (insurance pays most of doctor's charges). Higher prices are based on supply and demand as in plumber; car repair; doctors; lawyers. Theory is that when your car breaks down, you need to get it fixed NOW (same with lawyers, plumbers and doctors) but if your house is dirty, it can be put off for 2 months, 6 months or a year.

Part of what drives pricing is - whether it's a necessity, commodity, luxury or cosmetic? The other part is competition.

At $300, if you charge 4 hours for the job, it would gross you $75/hr. (This rate would include all your overhead and all expenses, including estimating averages and your drive time.) If the customer sees a higher rate than what they can justify in their head, (meaning they feel overpriced or cheated) they will not refer you - nor will they consider you for future needs.

If you spend 3 hours on site (1 person) you can generally charge 4 hours and cover all your O/H and expenses and you end up with $100 per hour on site rate. This will generally end in a win-win scenario. This is a rate structure that works for me (and is therefore MY OPINION.)

De-icing in my area would be generally very slow business. It happens MAYBE once a year.

There are some high risks in de-icing roof and gutter areas as you could drive water inside the home. This is a common problem even without forced de-icing. I would not feel comfortable doing this without previous knowledge of the home.

Installing icing and snow build-up prevention devices would be a safer approach. (MY OPINION)

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Pssst! Don't forget to rate this thread guys....

[Guest rfitz]

Paul,

I am sorry, but I totally disagree with your above statement, and to justify my opinion, I suggest you read a book, called.....

"How Much Should I charge"

Pricing Basics for Making Money Doing What you Love

By Ellen Rohr

Especially now in the off season, it is a fairly short read, maybe 2 evenings

or 1 good rainy sunday...

Competetion, going rates, etc.. etc.. have nothing to do with you operating your business and making a handsome living is your birthrite,

Let me give you one example, last week I had an electrician come to my house, I had some wiring problems, and figured a pro would be my best bet,

I dont want to burn my house down, anyway he was here maybe 30 minutes

wrote up an estimate and charged me $85.00 just for the estimate, I thought that was a fair price, anyway on any given day, I see 20-40 different elec. trucks in my area, this prob. has been going on for several months, and there was no dire need to have it done immediately, either did he, and he suggested I could fix the problem myself (nice guy)

Anyway, if you can get by with $50-$75 an hour run your biz, pay all your med ins. life ins. retirement funds, kids college, car payments, house payments,

taxes etc.. then you are doing good, but I think, no, I know after you read this book, you will change your pricing structure and double your hourly rate, I did and my biz is exploding, and yes I have tons of competetion that charge 1/2 what I do, but for some reason, people want quality and are willing to pay for it, they arent stupid, they know what it takes to run a legitimate biz with all the overhead, and they also have been screwed by the painter that charges $10.00 an hour cash on the weekends, the old saying is always true....

You get what you pay for...

Please Read this book, you will do yourself and your family great injustice if you dont...

Take Care

[Aplus 525]

Personally, I don't care what the book says. There are certain acceptable rates in various areas, and that's it, for the majority of jobs.

There is absolutley no way I could sell house washes at $150/hour. At least not in my market. Anybody who can, that's great.

As an example, in Michigan, auto repair shops are required to post their hourly rate in plain view for customers to see. $65-85 per hour is typical, depending if it's a smaller garage, or an auto dealership.

I could bet that any shop that posted a rate of even $100/hr would be out of business in short order, regardless how good their work was.

Just my .02

[Paul B. 523]

Rob,

Your electrician example holds little merit. Can you charge $85 to each of your customers just for providing an estimate for washing their house siding? How many calls do you think you would get if your Yellow Pages ad stated "Professional House Washer" - I charge $85 for each estimate. How many jobs do you think the electrician gets for $170 per hour? or How many estimates do you think he generates at $85 per 1/2 hour.

I think that's an apples to oranges example. But regardless...

Our regular plumber charges $60 for a house call and any labor that can be completed within the first hour or estimating a larger job. My better half called a different plumbing company one day and his estimate was $175 for 45 minutes worth of work. We use our regular plumber because his price is 1/3rd of the 2nd plumber - who we'll never call again.

I understood what you said, but, as I said, my minimum is $135-$150. I will not go out on a job to provide an $85 estimate. My target is not to get 1000 1/2 hour jobs that will pay me $85/job. The expenses to do that would be greater than getting one 500 hr. job that paid $75/hr. I can squeeze a larger profits out of that and I don't need a book to figure that out.

I'm not sure what you disagree with.

Do you disagree with my statement that $300 was the correct price for my business to bid on cleaning that house? That if I charged $500 I would not have had that specific job? That by pricing myself out of one job, I may not have had the opportunity to get another $24K+ in work?

Your statement: "Competetion, going rates, etc.. etc.. have nothing to do with you operating your business and making a handsome living is your birthrite," is rather out of context for my pricing strategy.

My philosophy is different from yours - regardless of the content of the book. Just as Macy's philosophy is different from Wal-Marts.

I can run a very comfortable business charging $62.50/hr./person.

That is a composite rate which is comfortable for my business.

I don't use an hourly rate for every job. Most jobs are priced by the sq. ft. or per 1000 bricks or linear feet, or per widget. However, my composite target rate is $62.50 per hour. That means sometimes we make $200/hr. other times we make $40/hr.

You can not exponentially increase your project prices or determine your pricing solely on what you want to make.

If I wanted to charge twice the going rate for new construction cleaning, I would have NONE = ZERO work in my area. The going rate is typically $30 (+/-) per 1000 bricks. The market would not bear $60 per 1000. Competition and market sets pricing regardless of what I feel the going rate needs to be. The few ways I can impact my profits are: working faster (improving efficiencies staff and equipment), reducing my overhead, reducing my expenses, reducing my labor costs, increasing the number of projects and staffing.

This statement also puzzles me a bit:

"Anyway, if you can get by with $50-$75 an hour run your biz, pay all your med ins. life ins. retirement funds, kids college, car payments, house payments, taxes etc.. then you are doing good, but I think, no, I know after you read this book, you will change your pricing structure and double your hourly rate, I did and my biz is exploding, and yes I have tons of competetion that charge 1/2 what I do."

I too have competition that charges 1/2 what I do as I'm sure most of us do. I'm sure even the $10/hr guys have been undercut.

I've done a few jobs at no charge - I bet that ticked off some low ballers.

But you assume a lot:

- what if I've read the book;

- what if all my kids are out of college;

- what if my home is paid for;

- what if I have no car payments;

- what if MY retirement fund is more than adequate for my needs;

- what if I have other investments;

- what if I own other businesses

But even if I had a house payment, what if I average 10 employees that I pay $15 per hour and I bill each out at $62.50 per hour 40 hours per week over an 8 month period. If my composit profit is 35%, can I not eek out a modest living?

One of the engineering firms I consulted for had 600 full time employees and the composite rate was $60 per hour. The owner worked less than 240 hours per year at this business. With a net profit of 10%, do you think the owner made enough money to be comfortable?

You are thinking like the man that wanted to sell his 1 apple for $1000 and I'm thinking like the man that's willing to sell 1000 apples for $1 each. Same end result, different approach.

MY OPINION

Bottom line is you can't tell me, and I can't tell you what to charge for doing any job - the basis for each of our business is different and our business goals are different. To that, I'll agree!

[Guest rfitz]

paul,

The book I mentioned is a great tool, it has all the direct and indirect

cost of running a particular business, whatever the business may be,

you are too fill in the blanks, after you do all the math in these columns,

it will give you a suggested price per hour/job you need to charge,

to run your particular business, I found it a great tool, and it has helped me

immensley,

It is under $20.00 and will shed light on business of any sort, and will

make sense to you after reading it, I would suggest this book to anyone who wanted to start or run a business in any field, I just thought you would enjoy a mathematical breakdown to a science of a service business...?

As business owners we can use every piece of information we can get our hands on, to help us in understanding why and how mathematically we charge what we charge,

You will thank me after reading this book, I gaurantee it...

Thats how much I enjoyed it, and have passed it on to other people in other business's that they owned for 20 years, and told me they never knew things like this existed, and they took several years of business and accounting courses...?

[Paul B. 523]

Rob,

I'll guarantee number crunching is not my weakness.

Let me ask you:

How many direct employees are you hiring this year?

How many additional work hours do you need to generate to hire additional temporary help and then direct employees in addition to the ones you are planning on now?

When you hire your direct employees, are you going to increase your hourly rate, or are you going to keep the same hourly rate as when you paid your weekend helpers? (I'm mean composite rate.)

Are you going to keep your employees busy 12 months per year or less?

What will they do when they don't work for you?

Will they collect unemployment and work under the table for someone else? or are you going to fire them when work slows?

[Guest rfitz]

Paul,

I have a friend who owns a fairly large landscaping company, he hires both

part and full time workers, he will pass some of his overflow of help, I will hire them full time as regular employees, as of right now, maybe 2, but remember they only get work visa's for march thru Nov. then they go back home (Mexico) I will pay a agency $10.00 an hour flat rate, then they take care of wk comp, taxes, housing etc.. I believe they actually pay them about $6 an hour, that way, I dont have the headaches as with regular employees, the agency handles all the paper work, and is responsible for injuries, overtime etc.., and yes they are, and I will be legal, I have consulted my CPA and attorney, and they both gave the green light..

[JustMe 14]

I just bought this book myself.. Waiting for it to arrive.

[Paul B. 523]

Rob,

I wasn't trying to imply you were hiring illegals, my questions were directed at business planning and strategy.

You answered 3 (1,4 and 5) of my questions (kinda) but not the other two (2 and 3).

I'm confused on what you actually mean with your statement:

"I have a friend who owns a fairly large landscaping company, he hires both part and full time workers, he will pass some of his overflow of help, I will hire them full time as regular employees...

I will pay a agency $10.00 an hour flat rate, then they take care of wk comp, taxes, housing etc.. I believe they actually pay them about $6 an hour...that way, I dont have the headaches as with regular employees,..."

Are you hiring them as regular employees or as temporaries?

Are you aware that the laws are tightening?

You may want to check if your CPA and Lawyer are both aware of the recent changes and can help to see if you qualify for the new H2B program.

H2B Program

The H2B Work Visa Program is designed to allow employers to petition for, recruit, and legally hire nonagricultural temporary labor from abroad for a period of up to ten months. The H2B Work Visa is defined as a non-immigrant classification of temporary labor and is limited to 66,000 per year.

Under the guidelines of the program, to become eligible to participate, the petitioner must prove through the application process that the alien(s) coming temporarily to the United States are not displacing employment opportunities nor affecting the wages and working conditions of domestic workers. The petitioner must define the need for temporary services or labor as a one-time occurrence, seasonal, peak load or intermittent.

Depending on how the need for temporary services or labor is defined and justified by the petitioner, many industries are eligible to participate in this program. The ability to obtain temporary, seasonal labor through this program allows domestic employers the flexibility to meet the changing demands for their services throughout the year.

http://uscis.gov/graphics/services/tempbenefits/ecrd.htm#anchorH2