In the middle of a deck job, need some advice

[dperrin 14]

We have only done a few decks so far. As we do not have a great deal of experience we are hoping you guys can give us some desperately needed help.

Working a medium size PT deck without prior stain. Applying a redwood color water base stain.

1. Right now we brush and roll the stain. How do you recommend getting in-between the floor planks. When I came back after applying to the floor you can see the light colored unstained wood where the planks have separated (the gaps).

2. The roller can not make it all the way to the edge of the deck as it hits the spindles. So to complete the coverage I used a brush. You can see a line in many places where the roller stopped and the brush was used. How best to blend the two so the line is less apparent. (Sand?)

3. Noticed that some deck boards were darker (more red) than the board right next to it. I guess its just the way each board absorbed the stain. Although I did go over the wood several times with the roller to get a good thick application. IS IT OK TO APPLY A COAT WITH A BRUSH AFTER THE INITIAL STAIN IS DRY. I am thinking I might apply a light application on selected floor boards that came out real light.

Lastly, what does the term 'back brush' mean. I hear people say that after spraying they back brush. Is this just the act of using a brush to smooth out the stain that was sprayed? Do you have to do this when using an airless sprayer? We are considering a sprayer for next years decks. Seems like having to brush after spraying is more work than just brushing and rolling.

Thanks for any advice you can give!

[Russell Cissell 65]

1.The only way to get in between the floor planks is to get in between the floor planks. You've either got to use a sprayer that can hit those surfaces, a roller or stain pad at an angle will sometimes work or a smaller brush that is able to make contact with those surfaces.

2. If you have heard people talk about "keeping a wet edge" this is the scenario they are trying to avoid. If the first application begins to or becomes dry prior to the second application of stain you will often get an overlap mark. Some finishes are easier to work with than others but as a rule of thumb you should:

a. Think about how you are going to stain the deck, have it planned out before you start.

b Work in a way that allows you to stain an entire board without having to stop or move to another section of the deck.

There is no set method of "fixing" overlap marks. It depends on what finish you are working with. Options will include, sanding, stripping, feathering or removal and re-installation of the finish.

3. If you are working with a semitransparent finish, there will always be a difference in color from board to board. You will often even see variances across one single board as the pattern of the grain changes. A wet on dry application as a means of evening out the color will often go against the recommendations of the finish manufacturer. I would think this is certainly true with a water based formulation.

Lastly, it would seem that you have a grip on the definition of "back brushing" In a simple spray/brush application using a pump sprayer, you are saving time by not having to dip and then thin off your brush in order to get the stain onto the wood. Often a professional with experience can easily apply a finish with an airless sprayer without the need for back brushing. It is all about controlling your spread rate to match the absorbency of the wood.

Some prefer to back brush even with an airless because they believe there is a benefit in having a secondary mechanical action that will both disturb any debris on the substrate and help to force more product into the wood.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

What brand ya using?.. Always nice to know which stains are non-wet edge friendly.

Rolling is for the birds. Get an HVLP, Airless, or Surflow type sprayer.

You'll be able to spray a 1k sq. ft. of prepared deck in minutes. Prep and cleanup of equipment takes longer..

To answer your last question.... You don't have to back brush persay after spraying but rather you may want to back pad to remove excess stain and help it penetrate and blend better. Some stains can be shiny in areas of over application and padding helps. Takes but a couple minute to do directly after spraying.

[PressurePros 249]

Get away from using water borne stains. Oil/Alkyd based products replenish wood and keep it more "conditioned" while locking in mildewcide and pigment. Oil based sealers are also a bit more forgiving with leaving lap lines.

Get away from rolling. It overapplies product. Your goal is not a thick coat with a penetrating sealer. As in painting.. two lighter coats are better than one heavy coat. Follow the manufacturer's recommendations.

Spraying a deck gets the best coverage between boards. Otherwise you will spend a good amount of time dipping a brush. If you can't afford to get into a sprayer yet, use the softest bristled truck brush you can find to do the floor. Even if you have to get a cheaper sprayer it will pay for itself quickly when you have to do a ton of spindles. Just looking at your technique I am guessing what would take you six hours my guys can have done in two.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Yea if ya can't get into a sprayer just yet you'll enjoy a high quality brush. The big honkin china bristle brush from your True Value is nice. Man they are really nice!

[Adrian 155]

Of course everyone knows that I will say take the financial hit now, or, later.

You will need a sprayer when your volume grows. Get with Tracy or Pete at Sun Brite in Lawrenceville and see if they have what's called a Deckster.

Well worth the cost, or see if they have one on consignment for sale from someone getting out of the biz. That's how I got mine and it has been blowing through decks in a real hurry. Get the varible degree cone tip and a long and short wand. It will pay for itself in no time.

Or just drop 50 - 100 on a pumper and make your own.

But, you will need a spray at some point.

[bigchaz 157]

I tried rolling once or twice in the beginning. I found you still had to back brush to get an even coat. I prefer to use a pad painter on the floors. Deck Stains and Brick Paver/Cement Sealers - Exterior Wood Deck and Paver Restoration Services and Sales carries 18 inch pad painters. Avoid the lap marks by using your brush to cut in one or two boards around the rails. Then immediately stain those deck boards. Dont do all the trim and then come back to stain the center of the boards.

In between the deck boards, if we aren't spraying, a 6 inch stain brush will get good coverage. Make sure you are getting both sides of the crack. If working away from the house you have to remember that the other side of the crack is still visible to people inside the house

[dperrin 14]

What brand ya using?.. Always nice to know which stains are non-wet edge friendly.

Rolling is for the birds. Get an HVLP, Airless, or Surflow type sprayer.

You'll be able to spray a 1k sq. ft. of prepared deck in minutes. Prep and cleanup of equipment takes longer..

To answer your last question.... You don't have to back brush persay after spraying but rather you may want to back pad to remove excess stain and help it penetrate and blend better. Some stains can be shiny in areas of over application and padding helps. Takes but a couple minute to do directly after spraying.

Yes, we are looking into a sprayer for use in the near future. Just not sure if we should go the airless way or a Deckster type. At this point we are doing it the cheap way while we pay down some of our startup costs. I look forward to the ease of spraying over rolling, although I would imagine the cleanup can be a bit more involved.

I may try to use a pump up sprayer and back brush until then. Hopfully that will speed up the process a little. Not to mention that this project has shown that rolling (at least without some brushing, does not give very good results).

As to the stain we used...I have been using Flood UV5 the last couple of times but the customer did not like the tone of the redwood so at the last minute I bought some Behr stain from Home Depot. I found the Flood much more forgiving on the application. Plus the colors were clear to natural, I guess the more colorful the stain the more tone changes and lines will appear.

[dperrin 14]

I tried rolling once or twice in the beginning. I found you still had to back brush to get an even coat. I prefer to use a pad painter on the floors. Deck Stains and Brick Paver/Cement Sealers - Exterior Wood Deck and Paver Restoration Services and Sales carries 18 inch pad painters. Avoid the lap marks by using your brush to cut in one or two boards around the rails. Then immediately stain those deck boards. Dont do all the trim and then come back to stain the center of the boards.

In between the deck boards, if we aren't spraying, a 6 inch stain brush will get good coverage. Make sure you are getting both sides of the crack. If working away from the house you have to remember that the other side of the crack is still visible to people inside the house

I guess they call that pad painter 'Floor and Deck Speed Mop' ?? Do you dip that and apply it or do you spray the stain and then brush with the 18'' pad?

I think the reason for most of my grief is coming from the fact that I did not back brush this time as you mentioned above. I think I will move to (at least) a pump up sprayer and a large pad for brushing the stain so as not to leave a heavy or blotchy coat on the wood. Should also relieve the issue with lines and such.

[dperrin 14]

Get away from using water borne stains. Oil/Alkyd based products replenish wood and keep it more "conditioned" while locking in mildewcide and pigment. Oil based sealers are also a bit more forgiving with leaving lap lines.

Get away from rolling. It overapplies product. Your goal is not a thick coat with a penetrating sealer. As in painting.. two lighter coats are better than one heavy coat. Follow the manufacturer's recommendations.

Spraying a deck gets the best coverage between boards. Otherwise you will spend a good amount of time dipping a brush. If you can't afford to get into a sprayer yet, use the softest bristled truck brush you can find to do the floor. Even if you have to get a cheaper sprayer it will pay for itself quickly when you have to do a ton of spindles. Just looking at your technique I am guessing what would take you six hours my guys can have done in two.

Brother you are so right. It definitely over applied the product. No doubt this is a big factor in my lines and variations in the stain color. And I can see how spraying is superior in many respects not the least of them, getting between the boards. I guess I will just have to go back and spend some time on the deck going over the cracks that need stain. Hopefully the owner will not be overly picky.

I know I am spending too much time on the staining process but I will get a good sprayer by next spring. In the mean time is there any reason why a pump up sprayer would not work in conjunction with a pad for back brushing?

[bigchaz 157]

Pump up sprayer will help speed you up a little bit until you get around to another sprayer. and yea its the speed mop. You can do it both ways, either applying it with the pad or spray and use the pad to even it all out. Pump up sprayer doesn't give the evenest coat, so the pad is critical in evening out the stain

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Cleanup does not take long and is no mess at all with either my DIY hvlp or my airless. Rollers, brushes, and pads are what make mess and and take time. The hvlp I spray till it all gone, turn off air side, then add a couple cups of mineral spirits to the tank and spray into a empty spirit jug. Takes about 2 minutes flat.

The airless I lift the siphon tube, flip the reverse tip, and squirt spray the left over product that didn't spray back to container. Then I replace product container with coffee can with a few cup of spirits and spray that to empty jug. Takes a few minutes...no mess

You'll regret the pump up beyond words..Slightest change of stain viscosity they spray different, different amount of pumps they spray different, first pull of trigger they spray different. If the trigger don't get clogged the tips do. They not a very tight spray, etc......surflow itn't all that fun neither on cleanup but once you dial them in they spray pretty good.

[Neil_Asheville 114]

If you go the brush route for getting the cracks, find a quality 6" china bristle with a pole thread on handle end. Standing is mo bettah than on yur knees.

These rock:

ArroWorthy 6-inch Olympian Stainer 1095 :: Staining Brushes :: Brushes :: Brushes, Rollers & Pads :: ePaintStore.com

BTW, Deckster HVLP for me.

/neil

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Yea if ya can't get into a sprayer just yet you'll enjoy a high quality brush. The big honkin china bristle brush from your True Value is nice. Man they are really nice!

Yea da pole one...$14 at da True Value..unsure if Hd has.

[dperrin 14]

Cleanup does not take long and is no mess at all with either my DIY hvlp or my airless. Rollers, brushes, and pads are what make mess and and take time. The hvlp I spray till it all gone, turn off air side, then add a couple cups of mineral spirits to the tank and spray into a empty spirit jug. Takes about 2 minutes flat.

The airless I lift the siphon tube, flip the reverse tip, and squirt spray the left over product that didn't spray back to container. Then I replace product container with coffee can with a few cup of spirits and spray that to empty jug. Takes a few minutes...no mess

You'll regret the pump up beyond words..Slightest change of stain viscosity they spray different, different amount of pumps they spray different, first pull of trigger they spray different. If the trigger don't get clogged the tips do. They not a very tight spray, etc......surflow itn't all that fun neither on cleanup but once you dial them in they spray pretty good.

I certainly understand the pump up will have different spray volumes every step of the way. I certainly do not want to be using it for very long. But while I am stuck with it, I want to be sure I understand how to make the best use of it. Please verify that I have this right.....Even if the flow is different and uneaven, I will be able to make everything right once I back brush it....correct?

[PressurePros 249]

You'll go through one $30 pump sprayer per job. You'll actually be lucky to make it through one full job without it breaking, clogging or your shoulder falling off. Save your money.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

IF you get it to flow/spray instead of draw lines or sputter you should be able to smooth things out after. Make sure to protect things from overspray and try not to stop and start all the time. Spread it or smooth things out within 10 min. or so. But that is oil, I don't use waterbase.

ps- most are made for sealers and once you put oil in them the solvent wreck havock. Got to have a type that has the right type seals like viton and to where the trigger and tips can be cleaned easy. My Chapin uses the trigger itself to take the inerds apart to clean. Is pretty quik. I use it for other chems though.

[bigchaz 157]

I used a metal pump up with viton before I got an airless