sanding decks

[N.B. DECKS 14]

Just wondering how many of you out there sand your decks before sealing or staining them?

I sand down just about every deck no matter what condition it is in, brand new or 50 years old I sand it. I think it helps the look of the deck. I've done decks without sanding them and I don't think they look as good as when I do sand them. Just want to see how many people sand or don't sand and why.

[plainpainter 217]

I sand decks down as well - it's spec'd out in sikkens documentation. At some point I will be dropping the sanding and only use it as an upsell once I have a big enough clientale. But for now - I am biting the bullet, as it is a much better job - but extremely time consuming - I did a double deck resto project for 2 g's and 16 hours of labor were just sanding.

[PressurePros 249]

N.B, I agree there is no comparison in finish quality when you sand a deck. If it were just a matter of sanding a floor down with a powered unit where the nails/screws were already sank it could be done cost effectively. The reality is, 99% of decks don't qualify for that criteria. They have rail systems with a failing finish and they have nails/screws that have to be set. That takes you out of the realm for being profitable. You soon will find yourself a paid hobbyist versus being a business owner unless you are getting the same rate per hour as you would on a chemical clean. I have ran the numbers and we would have to charge $7 per s/f of floor on the average floor (we currently get $4). That will take our average job from $1600 to $2800. At $1600 we are already often double the price of other contractors (because out work looks awesome and the customer gets a very pleasant experience). At $2800 my work volume probably be cut by 90% and my margins would be the same as they are now. It comes down to this.. what are customers willing to pay for?

I'm not sue how long you have been in business but as you spend some time doing this (or any trade) you realize people will not pay for what you view as perfection. I do understand pride in your work but you have to know when to shut it down when it interferes with profit. The best contractors know where to cut corners where it does not affect the end result appearance of the job.

As a final note: Yes a deck will look better when sanded initially, but it is outside. In three months the extra time you spend sanding spindle by spindle will not be evident anyway.

[James 625]

There are many way's besides sanding to achieve the same results. Osborne

brushes, buffing pads, defelting pads, buffing machines, and other machines. You don't have to set the nails with these methods. just give the nails a whack if the need it.

The results from sanding or buffing will be evident for a very long

time. Once you restore the appearance and then preserve the integrity of the wood. A good maintenance plan will keep the deck looking great for a very very long time.

[bigchaz 157]

Like James said you can get equally decent results in much less time by simply defurring the floor. Ill set the bad nails but you dont have to drive them all below surface if you are just doing a defur.

Sanding is an upsell item only. Only one person has wanted it. Although I have added spot sanding into the cost of the job on some very bad decks If i felt it would help the sale.

[N.B. DECKS 14]

When I say sand I mean only sand the horizontal services (floor & handrail). I usually set the nails, which in most of the decks I have done there are not a whole lot sticking up, and then QUICKLY sand the floor.

I've been doing this for about 9 years (5 with another company and 4 on my own) and have always sanded. Thanks for all the input so far, it is definitely a help.

[N.B. DECKS 14]

Ken, when you do your pricing for a deck do you just charge a flat rate per s/q ft?

The company I use to work for, and the way I do it now, breakdown the final price into different catagories. ie: sq. ft, sanding, cleaning, spindles etc. I do it this way so it appears to the customer that they are getting a lot for their money, and I think it helps justify the price in their head by seeing all the work that goes into it.

[PressurePros 249]

Nate, I measure everything. To simplify things for me I use 4 s.f per LF of rails, measure benches, use static s.f numbers for steps (just count each one and multiply), posts etc. My estimate form breaks out just about everything.. stripping, pH balancing, staining, and materials. I don't charge extra for defurring and handrail sanding as it is included in the stripping/prep price. You are probably right that it is better to break that out as well. It shows the customer more value. The reason I don't include it is that some decks need 10 minutes of sanding, some need 45. I've analyzed numbers on a few jobs and the amount of sanding averages out to profit neutral. I may change that this year. Its hard to tell the fine line between being detailed in your estimate and looking like you are nickel and diming the customer.

[plainpainter 217]

I hate that phrase nickel and diming - what does it really mean? Seems to me customers say that - when you won't do work for free.

[N.B. DECKS 14]

Ken, I like the way you do 4 sq. ft per linear feet. Over the years I've been counting every spindle and charging that way, which worked pretty well seeing that most decks probably average about 100 or so spindles, but it took a while to count all of them. Thanks for the input. How far is havertown from Quakertown, PA. I do most of my work in bucks and montgomery county.

[PressurePros 249]

Nate, I cover western Delaware County and a small portion of Montco along the Main Line. Havertown is the third exit from the start off the Blue Route.

[sealerguy 14]

KEN: I totally agree with you about the sanding/profit margin/whats the customer willing to pay for! I just quit sanding last year (unless a customer says I want sanding) and what a difference in profit! Used to sand every deck for the same price as guys that do not, now it's an upcharge if requested.