Stripping Penofin??? Not coming off...

[fireandrain 39]

JUST came home for lunch, middle of a job...HO has re-coat w/ Penofin last few yrs, never stripped between coats. Im working with NAOH F-18 today. Any tips on how I can get this stuff off? I was DS'ing, guessing ratio too weak, going to spray direct from Deckster when I return in an hour.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

You got boost?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

IMHO you don't need boost to strip Penofin.

Mix the stripper strong, like 8 oz per gallon, let dwell, do not let it dry - keep wet w/more product. Test a spot before you strip the whole thing.

Beth

[MMI Enterprises 289]

My experience with it tells me the opposite Beth. The keeping it wet = more wetting/wetting agent/surfactant. That kind of oil don't usually need more heat persay than another but rather penetration.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Well, that's ok if you don't agree Kevin. But we have been stripping Penofin for years. I'll take not letting it dry, but keeping it wet w/ product, and letting it dwell sufficiently any day over adding a booster. Penofin is an oil. You should not need to boost to take it off. Acrylic yeah, oil no.

We would be using HD-80.... ;)

Beth

[Celeste 341]

HD80 is all we've ever needed with the exception of taking off a horrific homeowner application of Sikkens DEK. Penofin should easily come off with a sufficient dose of patience.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Instead of thinking of it as a boost Beth have you ever thought to try reversing the roles of the chems and viewing the hydroxide as the boost?

Honestly the way the surfactants are portrayed sometimes seems to be saying that they would be doing damage or should be thought of as a lesser ingredient of participation.

I contend that the whole thing of dwell and keeping wet directly relates with the role of the booster/surfactant. Why you think you need so much heat of hydroxide on a little rosewood oil could be a valid question.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

HD-80 has a great surfactant package. Don't need to boost it for Penofin.

Have you stripped Penofin with HD-80? I have not taken Penofin off with F-18, but I still would bet you don't need to boost it. I know for a fact you don't need to with HD-80.

Beth

[James 624]

If you want to learn correctly do not down stream until you known your stuff. Penofin is pretty easy to strip so this may tell you something about DSTreming. So don't do it until u no about it! Capeesh......

[Scott Paul 164]

Penofin is easily removed with the proper stripper. It should come off with the HD80 or our Powersolve Dsing stripper.

[fireandrain 39]

Thanks for all the input guys and gals... as always, big help. My DS w/ F-18 was way to weak, went back and sprayed direct 80z. p/gal and got most of it off. I think the trouble with this particular deck was thatthe HO had re-coated every year with Penofin without any sort of stripping in between coats. I looked on the Penofin site and they refer to their stains as deep penetrating and no stripping necc. between applications. Hmmm. Methinks that coating that deck with RS would have looked like hell if I hadn't stripped today. The HO thinks the deck looks great and he is enthused (more than me...) Im usually not happy until all of that failing finish is gone. James, I agree about the DS'ing, dont do it till you get a fir grasp of ratios. I guess I agree, but on the other hand, I've had success experimenting with DS'ing/dwell times,etc... Having said that, I think Im going to spray direct on these tougher stains until I can get a better grip on the Downstream approach.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

HD-80 has a great surfactant package. Don't need to boost it for Penofin.

Have you stripped Penofin with HD-80? I have not taken Penofin off with F-18, but I still would bet you don't need to boost it. I know for a fact you don't need to with HD-80.

Beth

Nope Beth..I don't use it.

Since it "has a great surfactant package" your, by logic, adding a 'boost/surfactant' each time you reapply it to keep it wet..aka-"keeping it wet w/ product". Regardless if talking acrylics or oil the usual is that just keeping wet with mist or water spray for longer dwell is sufficient. By the very fact of reapplying the chem no one can say that a finish only takes 8oz, etc. as when the water evaps to point of almost being gone you've then not only used more and but higher concentrations have been at play.

Frankly by using more product your relying on burning the finish off.

I know for FACT all to well that in coating removal it is not all about caustic strength. Wetting is key. So much so that in using acrylic strippers over the years I can confirm there be a difference between cheap caustic stripper and higher tech/boosted versions. The one type ya are forced to turn up concentration by way of turning down the amount of water involved and the other actually relies on more water than most would think makes sense. The surface sees the same amount of heat but ratio has you putting down alot more liquid. If it were just caustic it be better off letting it evap some for to get strength as if you add water it don't have the same surfacting action as a "" boosted version. Some anufactures I know that make such stuff would balk or have a cow if they heard of folks mixing their stuff stronger. When someone has problem of the best stuff on the market costing over $20 per gal not working they immedietly ask what ratio they used. I also know for fact that some go ahead and plan for such mistakes of over concentration by cutting the stronger mix to a level that it will work. Sounds crazy but that is the nature of surfacting. Instead of like 20:1 they make it 6:1 so a fella that likes to put a whole gal in a bucket can still get it to work.

So in summation if you boost yer product but then dilute it well you'll end up using less caustic..

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

HO had re-coated every year with Penofin without any sort of stripping in between coats.

That will make it tougher...you get dirt, mildew etc. between the layers of sealer and it gets pulled into the substrate. You are absolutely correct.

Beth

[fireandrain 39]

Yup, I got schooled a bit today. What I had planned on taking me 3 hrs from set up to pull-away, ended up taking me twice that. My first mistake was forgetting to re-stock my truck with NAOH, was down to 1LB and had planned on DS'ing. Spent over an hour f'ing around with a weak DS of stripper, all along beggining to realize that I need to be spraying direct from my decskter @ 8oz.p/g. Soooooo, yeah, didnt really feel like such a rock star at the end of the day. As frustrating as days like this can be, I realize that its all about EDUCATION! Didn't hurt that the HO was thrilled with how the deck looked when I was loadin' up the truck.... back on Thursday to seal RS.