Oxidation on vinyl siding

[Gutter Squad 14]

Have a home with medium slate blue vinyl siding that I washed yesterday (the siding is about 22 years old - the owner has not had it washed and has been at the residence for 19 years). The siding came clean, but there is a layer or patina of oxidation on it (kind of like the kind that gets on cheap vinyl outdoor furniture after a number of years).

Any thoughts on getting this "patina" off the siding. Homeowner is happy with the cleaning, but I'd like it to look better. Did a scratch test with my fingernail on one side and found that there seems to be a glossier "hard" layer beneath the oxidized patina.

Thoughts appreciated - considering just taking a stiff bristle to it...

Edited June 14, 2008 by Gutter Squad
additional info

[814jeffw 71]

Something butyl based such as one of the purple cleaners should work. Start with a weak mix and go stronger until it's bringing it all off. Be careful around any painted aluminum though, it will take the paint off of it as well. Applying with a sprayer is what I would do, and the warmer it is, the better it will work, especially at a lighter mix. Don't allow it to dry on glass neither, and try and pre-wet any aluminum if possible. And if any aluminum does turn a yellowish color just use a little acid on a brush and hit the yellow spots, this will bring it right back to white.

Jeff

[anthony szabo 14]

RESTORA - By Flood is your answer! Now you have to find it! Maybe call Flood and see if they know where to get product!

[Ron Musgraves 240]

How long does siding last? Just curious...

[jeffex11 121]

having the same problem on one I did last week. some uneven areas of oxidation still showing after it dried. the customer and I walked the house before I was paid and NO signs of oxidation were left. I hit every sq. onch when cleaning and that is reflected in my price.. she gave me a call later that night and said she notice some discoloration. I told her I would be over in 2 days and she agreed. I gave it a second go on sat eve. with purple stuff but thunderstorms prevented it drying out and checking for oxidation. I haven't seen oxidation this bad in many years on vinyl. Only on the eastern and southern side where sun exposure is bad. I will be cautious on bidding on any other homes with this brand of siding in this neighborhood. It could have been residue from the cleaner or even cleaner weeping out from the drip holes in the vinyl I explained but I haven't had this much problem with vinyl in my whole time of cleaning houses. Hell I may have to get a big jar of armor all and brush the 2 sides with it!

Edited June 15, 2008 by jeffex11

[Integrity Curb Appeal 64]

having the same problem on one I did last week. some uneven areas of oxidation still showing after it dried. the customer and I walked the house before I was paid and NO signs of oxidation were left. I hit every sq. onch when cleaning and that is reflected in my price.. she gave me a call later that night and said she notice some discoloration. I told her I would be over in 2 days and she agreed. I gave it a second go on sat eve. with purple stuff but thunderstorms prevented it drying out and checking for oxidation. I haven't seen oxidation this bad in many years on vinyl. Only on the eastern and southern side where sun exposure is bad. I will be cautious on bidding on any other homes with this brand of siding in this neighborhood. It could have been residue from the cleaner or even cleaner weeping out from the drip holes in the vinyl I explained but I haven't had this much problem with vinyl in my whole time of cleaning houses. Hell I may have to get a big jar of armor all and brush the 2 sides with it!

How are you applying your chems? If the S-hypo is too strong... and the sun is beating down... then it may be crystalizing on the siding.

Are you downstreaming or x-jetting? If ds-ing, what is your draw percent?

[jeffex11 121]

pump sprayer applicaton 1part cleaner to 3parts water

[Integrity Curb Appeal 64]

pump sprayer applicaton 1part cleaner to 3parts water

What chems are you using? How longis it taking you to clean vinyl siding? Are you usung high or low pressure?

[jeffex11 121]

outdoor bleach ..mixture of bleach and soap from home depot. tired it at start of season and it works great. I wash each lap of vinyl siding like I'm spray painting it . each side takes roughly an hour on most houses with high pressure

[Thad 135]

outdoor bleach ..mixture of bleach and soap from home depot. tired it at start of season and it works great. I wash each lap of vinyl siding like I'm spray painting it . each side takes roughly an hour on most houses with high pressure

:lgbugeyes

[Gutter Squad 14]

Jeff- I've got a few different butyl-based cleaners (mild to strong) that I keep in my truck's arsenal. Just didn't think about using them on vinyl... I've washed hundreds of houses and two things about this:

1.) I have never seen siding that looked like this siding (has no "grain" to it and is rounded at the bottom of each lap).

2.) I again have to say how odd it seems - it really looks just like cheap walmart vinyl furniture that is over 10 years old.

Thanks for the tip on windows - way back when I first used butyl based stuff I did two dumbs things: took the paint completely off a 10 foot run of gutters & etched a window quite nicely (razor blades and windows = no fun).

I have a good deal of aluminum sided homes in my area and they account for about 20% of my housewash jobs, so I am familiar with oxidation remove from that aspect. I just didn't put 2 and 2 together to think of using that product on vinyl that same way.

Would have come back for replies sooner... but got a great father's day gift - Red Sox @ Reds tickets today and yesterday! Great seats - four rows up from the Reds dugout! SWEEEEEEEEET!!!! Loved watching the Sox kick the crap out of them today!

Edited June 16, 2008 by Gutter Squad
spelling

[jeffex11 121]

congrats on the fathers day gift!!! my son walked in the door with crabs, shrimp, and a dale jr 88 hat and shirt just about the time he won the NASCAR race yesterday!!! My wife said she called Jr and asked for the win for me for fathers day!!! well its a great thought......

[814jeffw 71]

I've seen that weird siding before only a couple of times, (rounded at the bottom and smooth) and you're right it doesn't clean up as easily as the typical vinyl we see. But I still think the butyl-based at the proper strength will take care of it. I bet that kind of siding is expensive also.

Jeff

[Mike Williamson 198]

outdoor bleach ..mixture of bleach and soap from home depot. tired it at start of season and it works great. I wash each lap of vinyl siding like I'm spray painting it . each side takes roughly an hour on most houses with high pressure

You shouldn't be using high pressure on vinyl, nor should one side of a typical house take an hour unless you're hand scrubbing it! The proper chems and you can wash a vinyl house in an hour with a garden hose. And yes, get it clean.

[Integrity Curb Appeal 64]

outdoor bleach ..mixture of bleach and soap from home depot. tired it at start of season and it works great. I wash each lap of vinyl siding like I'm spray painting it . each side takes roughly an hour on most houses with high pressure

You need to search downstreaming and sodium hypochlorite. High pressure can damage vinyl, and low pressure not only performs better with the right chems, but it is easier and quicker. Feel free to call me if you have any questions.

Scott

[jeffex11 121]

the houses I do run $450 to $600 to clean the siding ,gutters & downspouts soffit and facia. All are two story homes . concrete ,patios and walkways are extra. I apply soap bleach mix and scrub window frames with butyl product then powerwash . I use a 24 ft extension wand . I realize some can spray on chems and rinse and go. I include the time it takes to get there unload and wash in my pricing . I did finally solve the problem on the house. It was some of the white coating on the facia boards that bled down the siding and adheared to the vinyl. It took a mild mix of S H to melt off the dried paint residue. Only happen on the sunny side of the house as it dried that fast on to the siding.

[Bryan C 14]

the houses I do run $450 to $600 to clean the siding ,gutters & downspouts soffit and facia. All are two story homes . concrete ,patios and walkways are extra. I apply soap bleach mix and scrub window frames with butyl product then powerwash . I use a 24 ft extension wand . I realize some can spray on chems and rinse and go. I include the time it takes to get there unload and wash in my pricing . I did finally solve the problem on the house. It was some of the white coating on the facia boards that bled down the siding and adheared to the vinyl. It took a mild mix of S H to melt off the dried paint residue. Only happen on the sunny side of the house as it dried that fast on to the siding.

I get the same $, without taking an hour per side. Not trying to get in a pissing match but there is no need for an extension wand or application with a pump up sprayer.

If I hired someone who cleaned a house the way you do, I would think they had no idea what they are doing. No offense, but I do 2 story homes in 1/3 of the time, and every inch of the house sparkles. If you changed your methods and approach, you would be much more efficient and could make a lot more money. Think about it...

[jeffex11 121]

I believe you just stated I have no idea what I'm doing but thats ok with me , your not my customer!!I'm all for changing my methods and learning. thats part of the fun of a message board to me. I have downstreamed the chems many times. I switched to using bleach with my soap and wanted more control of the cleaner. the outdoor bleach I use cut the time off of a house cleaning for me frim using vinyl brite in the past. I appreciate the info about different methods of cleaning. I did a house thurs where you could basicaly let the cleaner do the work and rinse . Most of the houses I do take 3.5 to 5 man hours from start to finish. If you can cut that to 2 to 3.5 that is great. I never said myway was better! I just described my current methods. Always a work in progress. I even discovered HD-80 this year and what a difference from my old cleaner!!!

Edited June 22, 2008 by jeffex11

[Bryan C 14]

I believe you just stated I have no idea what I'm doing but thats ok with me , your not my customer!!I'm all for changing my methods and learning. thats part of the fun of a message board to me. I have downstreamed the chems many times. I switched to using bleach with my soap and wanted more control of the cleaner. the outdoor bleach I use cut the time off of a house cleaning for me frim using vinyl brite in the past. I appreciate the info about different methods of cleaning. I did a house thurs where you could basicaly let the cleaner do the work and rinse . Most of the houses I do take 3.5 to 5 man hours from start to finish. If you can cut that to 2 to 3.5 that is great. I never said myway was better! I just described my current methods. Always a work in progress. I even discovered HD-80 this year and what a difference from my old cleaner!!!

You spend 5 hours per house? So I am assuming that you are able to do 1 house per day? If you changed your methods, you could easily do 3-4 in a day, and have time to market to others to increase profitability. I sense that you take great pride in your work - so do I. I am a perfectionist and still able to the same work as you in 1/3 or 1/4 of the time. Do you ever land work from neighbors seeing your work? What do you do then? Schedule it in a couple days?

I just don't understand why you would enjoy spending 5 hours cleaning a house with a pump up sprayer, ladders, and extension wands when there is a more efficient, safer, and more effective alternative. All which will increase your efficiency, which in turn will make you more money.

What makes you stand out as a professional? A homeowner could clean their own house the same way you do it if they chose to spend all day doing it. The way you do it now only makes you hired labor IMO.

Just trying to help. Its your business and you can obviously run it however you want.

Edited June 23, 2008 by Bryan C

[MudDuck 20]

Ajustable nozzle M5 X jet will make your life much better ,,,..Bryan C is right, spending way too much needless effort. Plus you can't hit a lot of places with a hand pump with enough chem to do a pro job. Simply can't be done.

Ditch the "outdoor" bleach (that stuff is just over priced reg bleach and dish soap) If your not using 12.5 % bleach go with regular otc bleach and some Dawn or Simple Cherry from Pressure Tek,,Like 25.00 for 10lbs. 10oz SC 3gal bleach per 5er, in x jet.

But seriously the time and effort your putting into a job like that is crazy. $139.99 X Jet = You can do a better job faster with 1/3 the work.

[jeffex11 121]

well since your post I tried using hd-80 at about 20 to 1 and downstreaming it on my own house. 4 to 1 mixture then downstreamed at 5 to 1 . baiscall the cleaner did all the work and I rinsed it with the garden hose I spot sprayed and use an extension wand and brush to touch up some spots. .......you are RIGHT!!! and I have learned something new. so now I can be an unprofessional , don't know what I'm doing ,using homwowner tactics, in business for 16 years(God knows How) , that gets done a little faster!!!! thanks for the push to something new!!! this year I found the bleach products did all the scrubbing for me and had killed the mold before you could finish spraying it on . As I stated I was reluctant to let it fly since I had not used it before and wanted to control where it landed. I bow to your superiority!!!! old dogs can learn new tricks.

[Gutter Squad 14]

Wow... this turned into some ugliness...

Just get a high-draw injector for your pressure washer and use the recommended mix on pressuretek for Simple Cherry & F-13 (aka Wild Cherry). Chemicals (including the 12.5% SHC) should cost you about $12 or so per house & it shouldn't take you any more than about 1 to 1 1/2 hours to complete the average 2000 sq. ft. home (and not that much more time for a place twice as big).

I've tried to reinvent the wheel many times with many methods (roller pumps, various electric diaphragm pumps, hand pumps)... downstreaming is the way to go in my opinion (x-jet is fine to use if it suits you and the end result is basically the same with both - I have an x-jet, don't like the "mist" it creates).

Frankly, there is nothing better than standing a good 15-20 feet away from the house you are washing.... spraying.... letting the chems do their work... rinsing... and done. Big tips, low pressure = no worries.

[Bryan C 14]

well since your post I tried using hd-80 at about 20 to 1 and downstreaming it on my own house. 4 to 1 mixture then downstreamed at 5 to 1 . baiscall the cleaner did all the work and I rinsed it with the garden hose I spot sprayed and use an extension wand and brush to touch up some spots. .......you are RIGHT!!! and I have learned something new. so now I can be an unprofessional , don't know what I'm doing ,using homwowner tactics, in business for 16 years(God knows How) , that gets done a little faster!!!! thanks for the push to something new!!! this year I found the bleach products did all the scrubbing for me and had killed the mold before you could finish spraying it on . As I stated I was reluctant to let it fly since I had not used it before and wanted to control where it landed. I bow to your superiority!!!! old dogs can learn new tricks.

FYI - I don't know anyone that uses HD80 for housewashes, other than tough spots or rust removal . Plus it is way too expensive for everyday use.

Try Bob's stuff at PressureTek and keep the HD80 for the tough stuff. Just trying to help man, I really don't need the sarcastic stuff...

[jeffex11 121]

ordered the simple cherry and the f-13 this am . scheduling 2 houses in the same day to take advantage of the time saving. right across the street from each other in 2 wks. primarily I prefer to do decks ( as the name of my business is deckdoctor pressure washing) but if this system works I may push for more houses.

[MudDuck 20]

I like to use the F-13 with the simple C too, and bleach. I've had it take off algae and mold that was caked and scaled on the side of a house in layers. Melted off before I could rinse it. Just keep the landscaped plants watered before during and after. ( the OTC 6% isn't as harsh as the 12.5%, I've about decided 12.5 isn't needed for house wash) Another reason I like that M5 x jet is because of the adjustable pressure / spray pattern tip. You can have a big fan spray for soft watering plants then go back and forth with pressure stream for house and fan for keeping plants nice and wet. The DS would be nice if your set up to where your just pulling hoses from the truck. I plan to set up that way next year but the x jet is worth the money.

But don't beat Bryan up too bad Jeff once you do a few houses with the equipment and chems you'll see how crazy spending that much time and effort on a house wash sounded. Equate it to stripping a deck with a wire hand brush and a bucket of paint thinner. You get those chems in and I promise you you'll be questioning your own sanity. LOL

PS. I say this with all respect and I believe you know your stuff to the point I myself have asked advice from you in the past. I don't know what your experience with HD80 is or isn't and I'm not a chemest but I would not under ANY circumstances use HD 80 on a house wash. That stuff mixed at working strength can / will burn the heck out of your skin and blind you on contact. I can't imagine standing under the over spray of a house wash. Be sure to do the research on it. Especially if you use it on a dock because I'm sure it's very toxic.

[jeffex11 121]

hell I was just defending myself . I ran the hd - 80 at 20 to 1 so it was weak. It was on my own house and just an experiment with a different chem. Just like I started using bleach cleaners instead of vinyl brite this year. I was looking for something to get off oxidation and my brite side did the trick. It was as simple as apply and rinse. It is the same basic formula as hd -80 just weaker. Houses have never been my forte but I have done many over 16 yrs. if the mixture on the website for the cherry stuff works then I may be selling houses more. I think I pointed out that I was looking for help on this site in my posts. I DID learn something here and am willing to take the heat as well. I like to be cautious on customers houses with chems as I'm in no hurry to try out my insurance policy. I've seen what the purple stuff can do to get down to bare aluminum on gutters!!!!! I like having some confidence that the landscaping won't need replacing either so I just go at things a little slower when it comes to chemicals. I found a alternative outdoor bleach for $4 for 1.4 gal at lowes. comes in a 2 pack for $7.98 . I did a entire house thursday for $4 in cleaner

Edited June 24, 2008 by jeffex11